ALL,
I am on the hunt for a 2 3/8″ blade for my Stanley #7. The blade I have now came with the plane when i bought it and it is rusted pretty bad and it looks like it is going to be easier to replace it than to try and get rid of all the pitting in the back of the blade. So I was looking online and found a replacement Stanley blade and chipbreaker set for $17 and found a two hock blades, a High-Carbon blade and an A2 blade for $40 and $48, respectively. The question I have is are the Hock blades worth the extra money since I am only a hobbyist and am just learning to use hand tools after being taught in a shop that used nothing but power tools. I only make small items for family and friends but I am on my way to school for a 4 year furniture program where I suspect that my hand tools will get a work out.
What are the differences in the blades? Is it just a matter of which one holds an edge longer? If that is the case then I will buy the Stanley as I have no problem spending five minutes every now and then to clean up the edge. However if one can be sharpened to a sharper edge than the other then I will have to do some thinking. If any of you have experience that would be nice also. Thanks in advance for all of the help.
Nick
Replies
I (mostly) don't use the Hock blades as I make my own. I do believe that you would be happier with the Hock blades though. The difference is not so much in the steel quality it is more an overall aggregation of small qualities that add up to make a significant difference. The one BIG difference is the extra thickness of the Hock blades. This makes them stiffer and adds weight and strength. I think you'd be surprised at the difference if you could test them side by side. Don't forget that the advantages are realized on each stroke... so over a day of planing the quality edge is added to many hundreds or even thousands of strokes.
Nick,
I'd add to what the previous poster said by pointing out that the back of a Hock blade is very flat to begin with. That's an important point in realizing the sharpest edge you can get.
While I have no experience with a "stock" Stanley plane blade, I'd suspect (given the selling price) that the back of it isn't a) flat, or b) ground to as fine a finish as the Hock.
While you can lap the back of any blade flat, it can take a long time and is not exactly soul-atisfying work (at least in my opinion!). I'd rather be spending time making shavings as opposed to working to fettle up what is likely to be an inferior blade to begin with.
I just dropped about $60 for a new Hock blade and chipbreaker for my #5 Bailey and couldn't be happier. The old blade wasn't that bad. But the performance difference between the two is certainly noticeable. Now I look for excuses to use that plane whereas before I tried to avoid it because the blade was always dull and I couldn't get it to cut very well. No mas...
Zolton
If you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
I have rehabilitated several vintage Stanley planes. Those I did for myself always got Hock irons and chipbreakers. Those I did for others usually got a new Stanley iron and chipbreaker if the old one was in too bad of shape to be useful cause they didn't see the value in spending an extra $30 to $40 dollars. They just wanted a plane that worked. A new Stanley iron and chipbreaker can be honed to work well enough in quarter sawn, straight grained woods. If you plan on working figured woods you would do much better with the Hock iron and chipbreaker. A thicker iron usually out performs a thinner iron of the same quality. The added mass cuts down on vibration and even that little bit of extra weight helps. Thicker irons are also a lot easier to sharpen properly than thin irons. (It amazes me that Stanley got away with claiming that their thinner irons were easier to sharpen as part of their marketing jargon.)
Hock makes both high carbon and A2 Cryo irons. I met Ron Hock last Saturday at the Lie-Nielsen Hand Tool Event in Cincinnati. He's a great guy to talk to. Knows his stuff and is willing to share. Ron said he recommends his high carbon irons in smoothing planes because you can get them sharper than the A2 irons. But recommends the A2 Cryo for jack planes and jointers because the edge lasts longer and you're not trying to take super thin shavings. Since you say you are going off to a four year school to learn furniture making, definitely go with the Hock iron and chipbreaker. It will help you look like you know what you are doing. (I was young once and understand money being tight. You didn't say what other planes you have and will be taking to school with you. If your smoother is using a Stanley iron & chipbreaker replace them with the Hock and get the Stanley for your jointer.)
To to the other two posts, what is your time worth to flatten the back of the Stanley blade, this in itself covers the extra cost of the Hock blade. Secondly tou are unlikly to get chatter with the Hock blades as you would the Stanely.
I guess one way to look at is:
If you were to drive a basic plane jane car with no options such as A/C, power windows........., or driving a fully loaded car, with all the comforts of life. Which would you rather drive, they'll both get you where your going. The question is how comfortable would you like to be?
Get the Hock, you wont regret it.
Taigert
You've gotten good advice here. I had a pretty complete set of old Stanley bedrock planes. I replaced each and every blade with a Hock blade and cap iron. It made a big difference in performance. The thicker blade helps tremendously in cutting down chatter, especially in tougher figured woods, or any exotics from South America, Africa, or Australia & New Zealand.
If you're spending the money on proper training, why not invest in at least the best quality tools you can present afford. I hardly doubt that $50 is gonna ruin your year. You'll be happy that you did.
Jeff
Also LV, LN and TWW all sell plane irons. The LV are dead flat out of the box, and the LN come as either "replacement for Stanley" which is ok in most Stanley planes (and the same thickness as the Hock iron) or the thicker ones for their planes. The TWW I got is from Ray Isles (and carbon steel) and is a little less than 1/8" and required filing the mouth but is excellent. Some folks use the LN made for their planes which are even thicker and require some extra work to fit. All are a big improvement over the stock irons. I have a Hock in my #6, a TWW in my #7 and a LV in a block plane, and a LN in one of their planes. If you have a few planes try out a few irons!
ALL,
Thanks for the good advice. I figured you all were going to recommend the Hock blades, although I have to admit my penny pinching side was hoping otherwise. I went back to my granite slab last night and was able to get the back of the rusty old stanley blade pretty flat by just working on the last little bit of the blade (the blade is old and has some pitting on it from old rust so to get rid of all the pitting on the back would have taken hours). It takes nice shavings now and is pretty darn sharp. However I still can't deny that the Hock would be a better blade so I think that I will break down and buy the hock blade (after all it is only $50 but my penny pinching side is getting all excited and worried just thinking about it!). Thanks to all of you.
Nick
Nick,
Here's one you will enjoy! I have a #5 that I purchased new close to 30 years ago. It has been futzed and fettled with over the years and I have always enjoyed using it. I recently purchased a Hock blade for a #4 that I was rehabbing, and the thought entered my mind that I should try the blade on my #5. WOW! Even though the #5 was working just fine, with the Hock blade I can get thinner full-width shavings with no chatter and (it seems to me) less effort. Hock maketh me happy!
-Jerry
Nick - The main difference with a Hock blade over the stock Stanleys are that they are much harder. In my opinion, you can get a Stanley and a Hock blade equally sharp, but the honing on the Hock will last far, far longer. Some of the newer Stanley blades are so soft that the edges will roll if they're used in really hard woods.
I've got 7 of these Hock blades, and they're worth every penny in my opinion.
Nick,
I bought a Hock blade about 10 years ago, a high carbon version and I honestly saw little or no difference over the Stanley 1970's stock iron. Shortly after that I had a few A-2 irons made (they weren't commonly available at that time), and these were a night and day sort of thing; the A-2 irons were thicker, but that only accounted for part of the vastly improved performance. The A-2 took and held an extremely fine edge, with no extra sharpening effort. While I have not used them, I'd be willing to bet the Hock A-2 blades are worth the money. As for high carbon being able to take a finer edge, as compared to the A-2, that has not been my experience. It may be true on a theory level, but not in actual use.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled