Okay so I’m not necessarily a dogmatic purist when it comes to woodworking. I break the rule all the time if it’ll save me time or produce a better project. But one thing that has always bugged me is the scribe line on hand cut dovetails. IMHO I think it is tacky and I see no justification for it being there. I never see scribe lines left on any other type of joint but for some reason they have become acceptable over the generations on dovetails. Of the finer woodworkers I know only Krenov and disciples are ones to not leave the scribe line on a set of dovetails.
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Replies
Charles Hayward - writing about events at the turn of the century said that when he apprenticed (around 1900) that the oldtimers never left a scribe line although in his day it was acceptable on lesser work. As the 20th century progressed it became more and more accepted - and the general standard.
I don't like the line either.
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
Did you forget that the turn of the century was less than eight years ago?
Did you forget that the turn of the century was less than eight years ago?
Good one! Food for thought.
Joel, my close up observations of British antiques, gained through many years of fixing them up as part of my job, is that leaving the scribed line in place was extremely common at all levels of work, from low level work to some of the finest antiques that I have come across.
Personally, I follow the tradition I was trained in a long way back now; the scribed lines go right across the board, the chisel registers precisely in the very definite demarcation created by the knife in the cutting gauge, and the bottom end of the spaces between either tails or pins doesn't wander. The scribed line still visible at the roots of either the tails or pins stays where it is. It is too deep, at between 1 and 2 mm deep, to plane out without severely affecting the dimensions of the box I am making, eg, the fit of drawers is badly affected.
I suspect that like many other professional furniture makers I am primarily driven by the need to produce work fast and on time. I haven't got the time to nitpick between tails or pins with a cutting gauge so that the deep score I create doesn't show at the root of the remaining part.
The 'leaving the line visible' practice will almost certainly remain my normal practice for the rest of my working life; it does not in my opinion demonstrate a lack of quality in my work, but others may disagree with my position, but I shan't change what I do.
Now, if a customer requests no visible scribing I'll willingly do it, but they will pay more to get that look as I don't do extra work for free, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
I am simply paraphrasing Hayward. We learned dovetails with ####marking gauge so the line was shallower and more of dent that was easily planed out.
I personally prefer no line but most dovetailing is on drawers where a line or no line isn't much seen. Joel
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
Another vote for no knife lines, no matter what the usual thing may have been in the past.But it's a matter of taste I suppose. Still, does one leave any other marking-out line glaring from a piece of furniture....? I can't think of any but no doubt someone else can. (Not counting swirl-marks from RO sanders, which professionals may leave because they ain't got time to get them out and it would cost the client too much anyway). :-)Lataxe
Joel, you are of course correct and Hayward did say that. I have read a lot of Hayward's writings and some of his books sit on my bookshelf-- you can tell how long ago I did my training.
But Hayward was not always right. He, for example, provided some less than stellar information in his 1946 book, Staining and Polishing where his recipe for a polish reviver included boiled linseed oil. This is nowadays not generally reckoned to be good stuff around antiques where its tendency to darken over time inconveniently alters the original colour.
All I am saying is that my personal observations through working with many antiques is that Hayward was flat out wrong.
However, I do occasionally take out the scribed lines. You can see examples of both forms of finished appearance near the bottom of the page here. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
IIRC In this particular case Hayward is actually talking about what they did in the shop he worked at - not from examination of old pieces. Also he is writing about a time a good 70 years before you trained (unless you are a heck of a lot older than I think you are). Obviously practice varies by location and era. I do think cutting gauges make a harder to remove line than a marking gauge but certainly the real test is how well the joint fits and how long it took to make - everything else is largely (by todays measure anyway) personal taste. Joel
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com
Richard.
Thanks for the picture of your Crotch Mahogany Cabinet
I was going to ask you if you had a picture to post with the front doors open so we could all see. I forgot to do it when asking about if you wanted folks to copy your pictures off of your web pages.
It makes no difference to me about seeing scribe lines on non exposed parts of furniture. I have seen scribe lines on some very old expensive furniture AND boats that cost way more than I'll ever earn in my lifetime! If I see a line, I look to see if the joint matches that line. If it does and the line is straight and true.. Still quality work in my opinion.
It means nothing but I have seen scribe lines on some very, very old Chinese furniture also.
.
Sorry WillG, but I don't think I have any Crotch Mahogany Cabinet pictures with its fly open (sic). Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
but I don't think I have any Crotch Mahogany Cabinet pictures with its fly open (sic). Slainte.
I hear you! I usually do not have my Fly Open unless I have Benin in the PUB way to long drinking Irish Whiskies!
hey ted,
if this is a vote, nix on the scribe line. every time i've left it, i have to talk myself into accepting it. and talking myself into accepting it is a clear indication that i do not accept it.
eef
Ted,
I'm with you. I don't like the scribe line as well. A sharp pencil and a square works great for me, and I don't have to sand off those deep marks.
ted,
It's not much of a challenge to cut dovetails without a scribe line showing...just do the verticals first and scribe only on the part that will be chopped out. Am I missing something?
"scribe only on the part that will be chopped out. Am I missing something?"
No. That's why it's nice to have a marking gauge which is easy to work such as a wheel type.Philip Marcou
Philip,You're absolutely right, I do have a wheel type marking gauge. Of course sometimes it's difficult ripping the beer can opener from my hand...
Ted,
Great to meet another woodworker who believes in thinking for himself and for doing things his own way. I fully agree about scribed dovetail line. I don't like it either. So what I do is to scribe two or three parallel lines. THis really jazzes things up on the sides of drawers. In the future, I may progress to using different stains between the two or three scribed lines, or maybe even using pyrography in those areas. I may even scribe the lines in a wavy rather than a straight path, thus making for some very interesting dovetails. If you want to see the most interesting corner joints in the world, look at the website of Kintaro Yazawa.
Have fun.
Mel
PS - keep thinking for yourself. There is no reason to follow the crowd. Who was that Krenof guy you were referring to?
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Bravo! To me, a remaining scribed line says either the piece is unfinished, or the maker thinks I'm too stupid to know the dovetail was hand cut. Either alternative is somewhat insulting.
I will admit to considering adding scribed lines to machine-cut dovetails in protest, though. ;-)
ted, and all,
On the period furniture I see, it is typical to see the scribed line left on the dovetailing of drawers, and quite frequently on exposed surfaces, like the top of a slant-front desk, blanket chest sides, or top of a chest of drawers. It is actually pretty rare to not see that scribed line on old (mid 19th c or older) work. Just as often, one will also see the parallel lines of mortise layout on the inside surfaces of legs, below the aprons, where the marking guage has over-run the end of the mortise.
On period work, British influenced, there was an asthetic (neat and plain) that eschewed the showing of any joinery whatever; that is, dovetailing would be hidden altogether ( blind dovetailed tops or half-blind dovetailing with moldings covering the joinery, cover strips on the front edges of case ends to hide drawer blades' dovetails, cock beading wrapping drawer fronts), mortise and tenon joints would not have through tenons and would not be pinned, at least not on the show side.
On the other hand, much of the Germanic influenced work we see here in the Valley of VA, the esthetic emphasised showing the joinery, with through tenons, wedged and pinned joints, pegged-on moldings, and dovetailing that was flaunted with bold wide pins, and scribed lines.
The notion that a scribed line left showing on exposed dovetailing is "work left unfinished" seems to be a post-industrial-revolution one. Perhaps it is a reaction to machine dovetailing that need no layout, and hand workers saying to themselves, (or customers saying to them), "Why do you leave those lines there?"
Ray
Ray,Joints are inherent to the furniture. They might be hidden for aesthetic reasons, as you desribe, or be exposed for similar-but-different aesthetic reasons - the "honesty" theme of Arts & Crafts for example.Scribe lines are not part of the joinery but are rather part of the process for designing the joint; they serve no purpose in the finished piece, as the DT or M&T itself does. As Joolz and others point out, it is easy to avoid leaving the scribe lines; or even to avoid making them where they aren't needed to begin with. To leave scribe lines seems little different from leaving crude scratch marks from sanding or obvious plane track marks - it represents work unfinished and could be named "shoddy". As to the "argument" that 67,389 pieces made in past times show these scribe lines - so what? There are many half-arsed traditions that we no longer practice and feel determined not to revert to, such as starching collars and sending boys up chimneys with a big brush.Lataxe, who prefers furniture to be completed as well as finished.
Lataxe,
I do so hope that you didn't get the impression that I would try to convince you (or anyone else) from doing what you deem right and proper for your own circumstances. Such as, planing away those unsightly useless layout lines, and putting in lumpy protruding plugs and pin-ends ;-)
Or as a friend is wont to say, "A$$holes and opinions; everybody has one."
Or as the emergengy room Dr said to his patient, the surgeon, "Suture self."
Or were you just rattling my chain a bit, you imp?
Ray, the half-arsed traditionalist
Now, where did I leave that indentured servant?
Edited 12/1/2008 9:57 am ET by joinerswork
Ray,It is getting harder and harder to get a chain rattling around here. I may have to take up a Mel-stance and start issuing the most outrageous of opinions, probably of a mere quarter or even one eighth of an erse. If this doesn't work I can always look for posts made by various well-known Knots-nutters and paraphrase them.Now, about them oilstones......Lataxe, who seems to have mislaid his pig's bladder.
You can eliminate the scribe line in dovetails using Ian Kirby's technique described in FW 21, p73, reprinted in the book "Fine Woodworking on Boxes, Carcases and Drawers". You make the pins and the tails fractionally shorter than the thickness of the stock. When the joint is together you clean up the sides with a handplane until you reach the tops of the pins, removing the scribe line in the process. I find this works brilliantly, and it makes glue-ups easier too. It is best to use one of the wheel type marking gauges so the scribe line is light in the first place.
Joolz, I am one of those furniture makers that set the ends of the tails and pins just a fraction below the surface. I didn't learn the technique from Ian Kirby as I was taught it by old farts that I worked with in my first job in a furniture workshop.
We always cut the line deeply, and I still do now more than thirty years later. No amount of light or reasonable planing completely eliminates evidence of the scribed line. Even if the severed fibres are planed away, the bruising of the cut goes deeper still, probably another 1 to 1.5 mm. In my case therefore I'd need to plane anything up to 3.5 mm of wood off the outer surface of the box, cabinet or drawer.
I can't see me doing that, and I don't think I can see any good reason to change my working method because a deeply cut line makes it so easy to register a chisel whilst whacking out the waste. I'm not particularly prissy about belting the waste out. Commonly it's a case of dropping the sharp end of the chisel into the cut line and belting the other end hard with a mallet. It's a system of one whack waste clearance (apart from a bit of trimming at the corners) which does save an enormous amount of time; it only really works on the softer woods, eg, mahogany, pine, poplar, but even cherry and maple will sometimes yield to the brute force method of waste clearance. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 11/30/2008 5:34 pm by SgianDubh
joolz,Thanks for mentioning Kirby's technique. I was about to do that when I read your post.It is strange that his methods are not known by a majority of workers, and no longer appear in FWW. He was a regular contributor to the early years of the magazine and elevated the "fine" of FWW all during that time.His advise to scribe the pin boards (the front and back of a drawer, for example) slightly more shallow than the thickness of the sides does result in the end grain of the pins being slightly below the outer surface of the sides. But this is not to facilitate cleaning up of the outside of the side pieces. That, and possible removal of the scribe lines, is a by-product of the technique.Kirby advocates making the pin boards the exact width of the drawer opening. When the drawer is assembled, the end grain of the pins has established the exact finished width of the drawer, a critical dimension, because a well-fitting drawer will have its sides just a hair inside that dimension, even closer for a "piston fit.".As he says, all that need be done is to plane the outer surface of the sides down to the pin end grain, and then, just a hair more.But, the pins' end grain should only be a scant 1/64" below the sides' outer surface. This is the extent to which they are scribed more shallow than the thickness of the sides. The dovetail scribe lines can EASILY be 1mm deep or more (1/16" - 1/32"), much deeper than the plane is going to remove in the cleanup. So, in most cases, those scribe lines are going to stay, even in a Kirby dovetail exercise.EDIT - I see that Richard Jones has already explained this. Guess I was typing as he posted.Rich
Edited 11/30/2008 3:31 pm ET by Rich14
Rich, the main reason I prefer the end grain of pins and tails below the surface is to facilitate assembly. If the end grain of these bits sit proud, how the hell do quickly slap a cramp on to snug the joint up, which is often necessary particularly with heavy material like wide cabinet parts. You can't do this cramping thing quickly if the ends of the tails and pins sit proud, unless you cut a custom cut lump of wood to do it, and by then it's too late because dovetail joints are only ever assembled once in my work, and the glue will have gone off.
I was taught this dodge long before I'd ever heard of Ian Kirby and his methods, whose name only crossed my path some time in the mid-1990's.Perhaps Ian was taught by the same grumpy, swearing, roll-up smoking, curmudgeons that taught me.
Posting in anticipation of Lataxe pointing his big guns at me for my sloppy and unprofessional workmanship, ha, ha-- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,Yes. Kirby makes the same points and says that anyone who makes cramp . . er . . clamping blocks to accommodate pins proud of the sides, has a basic misunderstanding of the joint.Ian now lives in the U.S. and apparently now writes for Woodworkers Journal. One Web site says he was educated in England by the likes of Edward Barnsley. Don't know if Barnsley qualifies as a curmudgeon, but Kirby is described as a nice guy. That distinguishes him from the likes of guys like us!Rich
Richard,Shurely shome mishtake - sloppy and *professional* work. Only we amateurs have the time, apparently, to do things properly (I mean improperly) and get rid o'them naughty indents that sit proudly astride the DTs. ;-)Still, when you have sold that nice wee chest o' drawers for the 4000 nicker, despite them knife marks (or perhaps because of them) and the metal bits that have replaced the piston-fit nonsense, I will admit I was just a daft ole fule to ever think that great gouges in the drawer sides were unattractive. Lataxe, who obviously lacks a refined taste.
Ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,You are supposed to rise to my juicy bait, not chuckle like that whilst swimming off to look for something more tasty to gobble up. You are worse than a wily old trout and I am running out of gaudy flies!Lataxe, a boat-rocker.
Ah, but Lataxe, your attempts to rattle my self confidence in my abilities as a furniture maker are like water off a duck's back. I've been at this game for far too long, seen most of the opinions, tried too many methods to recall, seen too many hacks flailing about amateurishly, and observed the sad looking results of so many Johnny-Come-Latelys to the game all bright eyed and bushy tailed in their eagerness.
It helps that I'm a cock-eyed and jaundiced old cynic with a lifelong subscription to Private Eye, but underneath all that there might even be a kindly indulgence or two that I can offer the occasional struggling woodworker that crosses my path. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
It's a shame that your kindly old woodworker persona cannot see fit to knock down the price o' them drawers to an affordable 400 nicker, so that a poor old pensioner might buy them to copy in every detail (I mean admire with wonderment and awe).
Meanwhile I have perused your new website and hereby offer admiration for the stuff that you've posted by that student o' yourn. Even I, who feels contemporary furniture on his eye like a spelk in the finger, finds a quiet attraction in that stuff. Why do them other contemporary men make every dang thang out of burr elm or other shouty stuff, one wonders? Perhaps they lacked attention when children or were locked in the cupboard under the stairs for to long?
Lataxe who always comes too late (better than too early).
The only reason you're 'poor' is because you keep spending fat wedges on they bloody upside doon planes.
Get on yer bike down to B&Q and spend money on some of their top of the range Handyman's Planes-- you know they'll perform flawlessly right off the shelf. For 50 quid you could get a whole set from block plane to jack plane, sell off those obscenely expensive doon under jobs and buy the cabinet you're drooling over. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 12/2/2008 3:52 am by SgianDubh
For 50 quid ? Is that 50 Pounds or do I have to take up deep sea diving to find out?
Quid to me sounds like that huge Squid that.. Eats us humans...
I asked once about English money words. NOBODY replied!
WillG,We Anglish now only have pounds and pence. They are metric, like your dollahs and cents. :-)Once we had 20 shillings to the pound (21 to the guinea) and 12 pence to the shilling. There were also farthings (1/4 of a penny) and halfpence. There were threpenny bits with polygonal edges and also silver sixpences, not to mention florins (2 shilling piece) and half-crowns (2 shillings and sixpence). Crowns (5 shillings) were still legal tender but not much used. And let us not forget the 10 bob (shilling) note.I am surprised that you Americans, being mad for the imperialist measures, have not gone over to the pounds, shillings and pence. Shurely them dollahs and cebts are creeping metrification?Lataxe, who prefered groats or even mickles and muckles.
Richard,You are a heartless creature, mocking a plane addict like that. Also, that B & Q advice is a nasty trick - a wise pensioner such as moi can see through your evil intent (years of practice with intended evil and also the unintended sort) but there are probably 28 newbies rushing off down to that dross-seller you are promoting even now. The tinfoil planes will be bad enough but what if they buy one o' them "tablesaws" with the 3/10ths of an inch play in the arbour and a short circuit to the blade-raising mechanism!?I am tempted to contact the Leeds College bursar and advise him to swap your Chrismas single malt for a bottle of that bourbon stuff! That'd teach ye, ye scallywag - having to drink refined parafin for Christmas!Lataxe, who always expects a discount on furniture especially if the drawers are unfinished.
Why not scribe the line on the inside surface of the drawer or cabinet rather than the outside. What am I missing here?
Cheers,
Joe
C,Personally I like what is probably now termed the Cosman method for making DTs, athough I've never seen his DVD but only heard about the technique via word-of-Knotspost. The inside faces of the drawer-parts are given a very shallow rabbet with width equal to the depth of the pins/tails, rather than just a knife line. That LN140 skew block plane is ideal for this task.I still knife the outsides (to the same DT/pin depth) then saw down to the line/rabbet. The rabbet (and the knife-line, to a lesser extent) seem to help keep the fretsaw on track as I use it to take out the waste, leaving very little on the DT/pin floors to clean out with a chisel. I use a skewchisel to take out that last remnant, which is also guided by the knife-line and more-so by that rabbet. In fact, chiselling from the knife-line side to the rabbet side means that there is very little chance of a skew chisel causing any breakout.The knife line on the outside is still necessary to guide both one's eye when sawing and the chisel, I think.Taking care also means that there is not usually a need to chisel the DT or pin walls unless I'm careless with the saw or the marking of pins from tails. In fact, any final fitting of the tail/pin walls is better done with a small, fine, flat file - assuming that there isn't a lot to remove. But usually it's enough to take off the roughness left by the saw using that file, to get a good fit.My knife lines are perhaps 0.25mm deep - certainly nowhere near the 1 - 2mm deep some others seem to make. They are easily planed or even sanded away when the tail/pin ends are made flush after drawer assembly. The rabbets get hidden inside the corners of the drawer when it goes together.Most of my drawers are NK so the drawer itself can be slighty undersized compared to the hole the drawer goes in. But if there is a need for a traditional piston-fit drawer, I simply make it 1mm over-wide and plane it down to a perfect fit, which automatically gets rid of them knife lines. 0.5mm off the side of a drawer won't weaken it and it doesn't take long to plane/try, plane/try until one has the piston going in and out with no stick.None of this is any more difficult than the traditional method, which seems to need deep knife lines to guide a chop with a chisel to take out the waste. No doubt someone will say the traditional method is faster. However, I feel no need to save 30 minutes or so in making a piece. This attitude is known as "taking care" and is unrelated to that other attitude "time is money". :-)Lataxe, a time-wasting amateur.
Cajun1,
You need to chop dovetails from both sides of the board to the middle. Hence the need for marking a base line from each side.BTW, if you ever serve Lataxe a cup of tea, just put the milk on the table...don't ask if he takes milk in his tea.Edited 12/1/2008 3:40 pm ET by BG
Edited 12/1/2008 3:41 pm ET by BG
"Why not scribe the line on the inside surface of the drawer. What am I missing here?"
Nowt.I does it all the time.And half scribes the outside. Very good. Six of one and half a dozen of the other.
And if you likes your pins on thru doves to protrude so that you can plane all flush and flash, you uses Very Softwood Clamping Blocks. No need of Custom Cut Pieces of Wood or such like- just some Powerful Record Tee Bars. Very Good.Philip Marcou
Edited 12/2/2008 4:35 am by philip
I personally don't mind them. But that may just be a rationalization, because my methods of work typically leave them. It reminds me of that Calvin and Hobbes cartoon where Calvin time travels: He goes from 6:30 to 8:30 in order to pick up a completed school assignment. But learns from the 8:30 version of himself that he (himself) hadn't done the work and hence he (the 8:30 version) does not have it. Both of them hate the 7:30 Calvin who they think should have done it. The 6:30 Samson that uses the wheel gauge to mark the base lines wants to make the lines deep in order to facilitate really accurate chopping out. The 8:30 Samson who is cleaning up the glued joint think the 6:30 Samson should have been more daring by scribing more lightly and confident of the 7:30 Samson's chisel work.
Samson,I understand your predicament purfekly. With me it's: tails or pins first? The two personas inside my psycho-space (Mr Tails & Mr Pins) often end up in an indecisive mode. Here they are pondering the question, which has stumped any number of philosophers.Lataxe
Gosh Lataxe,
I didn't know you had a brother!
...No wait...How'd you get a picture of me, looking into a mirror??
Ray
Lataxe,Pins or tails first??Why? I start the pins, then switch and get the tails started, then I switch back and do a little more on the pins and back and forth. I try to finish both at the same time. And I can do the whole thing without using any shoulder planes, especially the larger ones. Hope that helps.
Mel
PS loved the photo of you twoMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Gauge a light line, deepen at the socket just enough to get good chisel registration, clean up the assembly with a few smoothing plane passes. What's left (if anything) will look fine.
If you want it to look like a machine cut the joint then cut the joint with a machine. Otherwise, don't worry.
A Kirby-esque gauge setting will result in no marks showing since they'll be removed in the operation to plane the sides even with the pins' endgrain.
Edited 12/2/2008 9:14 am ET by TaunTonMacoute
Not worried in the least bit. My OP just mentioned that I thought leaving the scribe line was a tradition that doesn't make sense since no other woodworking joint is it acceptable to leave the scribe line. IMHO I dislike the scribe line and leaving it to show it was hand cut is sort of a moot point (at least for me) because I don't know of any router jig that'll let me do 1/8" pins. And anyone that can't figure that out, . . .well lets just say, . . . no use in trying to explain.
I have no idea about the capacities of the current crop of router dovetail jigs. Some may consider that to be evidence of an appalling lack of woodworking knowledge on my part. I don't.
I don't know anyone (outside of the woodworking journals) that can or wants to keep up with the plethora of gadgets released onto the market every year.
There are a few sad cases around that do just that but whatever floats one's boat I suppose.Good luck with your woodworking.FWIW, a light gauge line showing doesn't bother me. I've seen a few very faint gauge lines on legs that were put in to mark mortises. Those don't bother me either.
Edited 12/2/2008 12:43 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute
I adapted the Kirby method in the mid 80's when he had a school 16 miles up the road in Cumming, Georgia. And yes... he is a very nice person and believes in keeping things rather simple right down to his work-benches. A very practical man trained and apprenticed in England.
Now.. since my amateurish pieces reach out no farther than my home.... I could care less really if anyone does or doesn't see a scribed line made by the marking gauge. That line is important to me as a register point but someone else's view of whether they are tacky when left seen is not very important to my everyday life priorities.
As a matter of fact anyone that invades my home to "snoop in my drawers" will most likely be meet with rather strong opposition and the possibility of muzzle flash from a .45 Automatic pistol. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Sarge..
Edited 12/2/2008 1:10 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge,
I've been doing the Kirby method too for some time, slightly modified to incorporate Philip Lowe's body positioning suggestions...the main difference being where you start the saw cut.
Also, like you, scribe lines don't bother me usually. The one exception is on a formal piece, like a grand father clock, and thru dovetails have been used on the carcass. I felt the scribe line showing through the polish looked out of place. I use them on shaker wall clocks and usually remove the scribe lines from the sides there also.
99% of my DT's go on drawers, BG. I would also remove them if they were on a dominant area that would show all the time in public view. There I feel is a case similar to waxing a car.... and as my second wife would say with all the sarcasm one could muster after a crucial inspection only looking for errors.... "you missed a spot". ha.. ha...
Sarge..
"second wife." Sarge, do you have all of your wives numbered?
All eighteen of them.. that's the only way I can keep up with which payment goes where. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Just kidding Tink... nah... one and two are history and in this case history doesn't repeat itself.. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge,
I believe 5 is the optimum number (including longish term live-in girlfriends) if we are to become practiced enough to deal properly with the rascals.
Incidentally, the proper arrangement is for the out-of-date ones to fend for themselves and for the current one to give you a regular wodge of pocket money. It just goes to show - you lack the necessary number of practice bouts.
Lataxe, lucky number 5.
PS I believe 5 is also the correct number of handmade M&Ts to make before acquiring the ability to make a-one that mates well. That is a spooky co-incidence.
Edited 12/13/2008 6:15 am ET by Lataxe
Lataxe,"I believe 5 is the optimum number (including longish term live-in girlfriends) if we are to become practiced enough to deal properly with the rascals.z"Is five really the requirement? or is it like handplanes...if you buy one with an adjustable mouth and do a bevel up, bevel down swap out all you really need is one or two?
BG,
I have nivver had a mistress and nivver will, as I do not wish to die a horrible death or end my days in penury.
Some lads in that Utah apparently persuade naive women to the practice you mention. One day I will dress in a dark and sober suite, get my hair cut very short, put on an ingratiating leer and go to knock on their door with "a message that will save them". :-)
Lataxe, a very conventional husband.
After #1.. I implimented qualification requirements that had to be met before a potential suitor was even ask out. The first requirement was they show me a copy of their last years W-2 form (the form in the U.S. you file your yearly taxes with which reveals your yearly incomes and all interest paid on investments.. etc.) and if that criteria is not met... move on. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
I have to run as function over form.... if I don't function and blow the leaves outside... I don't get to see her form. :>)
Regards...
Sarge.. who loves form
Sarge, several of us from The Agency have already been in your home to determine if your furniture represented a threat to national security. We came, we went, you never knew. ;-)
Ralph,
What was the verdict on the Sarge DTs? It is a matter of International Importance so I think we should be told.
I am surprised you did not trip the claymores.
Lataxe, who fears armed men of all kinds (and the wimmin).
Lataxe, who fears armed men of all kinds (and the wimmin)......
Oh yeah on the wimmim.... my lovely wife intruded on an intruder several years ago when she heard my shop door open while I was at work one evening. Three rounds from her .38 snub nose resulted in a pretty picture of *sshole and elbows as the intruder literally flew through the adjacent wooded area beside my property.
Interestingly enough... there has been no further burglary attempts in my neighborhood since. Probably a good thing for the burglars to pick on someone else IMO, ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha...
You can judge the DT's as International concern is a very important matter in our trying times.... :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge,I can still see them lines even though they are only 1/2 a pixel wide. I believe you have been affected by that Jones bloke. Have you attended him at Leeds for secret orders?Perhaps you would consider coming to live next door, as although I have savage neighbours who bark and snarl at a stranger i' the shed they lack a .38 and perhaps also the will to discharge it. (The rozzers frown upon such discharge and the beak will be even more displeased, putting one in gaol so that the burglemen have free reign at the shed).However, the rozzers might take into account that you are a savage foreigner and (perhaps wisely) leave you alone and also your ladywife, who I shall henceforth call Calam after that Doris Day character.If you was my neighbour I could show you how to obliterate them DT lines. Also we could go to Leeds, just across the Pennines from here, to annoy that Scots lad. I have questions for him but he keeps wriggling off.Lataxe, who is quite harmless hisself.
"I have questions for him but he keeps wriggling off."
Questions? What questions?
I do like to tease by wriggling. It keeps garrulous Lancashire based posters all of a-flutter ... and guessing, ha, ha-- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
I can still see them lines even though they are only 1/2 a pixel wide......
Yes... yes... they must be there as once a year I pull all the drawers from furniture and take them to be publicly displayed at the local "DT Scribe Line Festival". They have contest with prizes awarded for deepest lines.. faintest lines and the "he really didn't give a dam*" lines. I hope to win a blue ribbon in the faintest lines with maybe one in the "he didn't really....." category. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
I suppose I better stay on this side of the pond as my concealed weapons permits are only good in 42 of the 50 states. I wouldn't want to upset the liberals who advocate take your gun away so only the criminals will have them as they have no intention of surrendering theirs. But if we all wore Peace chains and put a flower in our hair.. those criminal types would see the light for sure... ha.. ha....
I better get back to target practice as you never know when I might get called back to National Defense with Commies invading our beaches in life rafts. I do have first dubs on defending the hot dog stand at Daytona Beach, Florida in case they do. And if it happens... I only hope it happens at "Spring Break" for college when the hot young lasses are strutting their stuff.
Have a good day Lataxe...
Sarge..
Sarge,I couldn't go to that Spring Break event. I would be stimulated into committing a series of heinous acts - although they might be lost in the many, many other heinous acts being committed all around. No wonder the population is growing apace.Lataxe, looking for a red bandana and the pump to blow up the rubber boat.
Lataxe, looking for a red bandana and the pump to blow up the rubber boat.....
Ha.. ha...
Try Walmart the day before Thanksgiving and be sure to get there early as everything is on sale... just watch out for the tramplers as it's the Mutha of All Sales and people will walk on you to get to the "big screen" TV's ...
Regards...
Sarge.. who intentionally avoids all sales and especially ones at Walmart
Lataxe, I'd have to say the quality of Sarge's workmanship was on par with a well-planned assassination - clean and obvious only where intended. ;-)Sarge, we *are* ghosts. That's why you didn't notice. ;-)
The Agency should probably "tail" a few politicians as they most likley represent the largest internal threat to National Security. But.. as long as nobody messed with my coffee pot.... I can handle silent intruders just as well as I handle ghosts that insist on dropping by..... :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
I guess that makes me an anal sort of guy.
Residual scribe lines are perfectly acceptable. Frankly, I find objection to them unecessary fussing and an indication of a break with knowledge of the joint and the craftsmanship which it has traditionally indicated. If someone is using them to proclaim his work is distinct from machine cut work, that's his problem, or perhaps that of the offended beholder.Like pencil construction lines, still visible in artwork, most often good watercolor work, they are solid and honest indicators of intent. Of course, anything can be exaggerated by shameless practitioners, but in the absence of actual evidence of such hack work, give them their due.Rich
I'd just execute the joint in what you believe to be the most efficient and effective manner and if that results in gauge marks showing then so be it.
Edited 12/2/2008 7:55 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute
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