Replies

1. 
   KeithNewton | Dec 20, 2004 05:11pm | #1

   Hey Buzz, The cheapest thing that I have seen which works, is to Duct tape a AC filter onto the intake side of a window-box fan and set it up close to where you are sanding. It will draw the dust into the filter and capture lots of it.
   The closer to the sander, the better it works.

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Dec 20, 2004 05:26pm | #2

   Rootburl,

     I have seen this done also but I really would like to have something that I could hang in my shop that would collect the dust in the air. My space is very limited and moving around a fan is not my ideal solution although it is a very reasonable one.  Thanks for the suggestion.  Have you heard anything about the system that I had in the link?Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   KeithNewton | Dec 20, 2004 06:00pm | #3

   That is a nice looking unit, and I'll bet it will get more and finer particles than what I described, however, if it makes as much noise as a vacuum cleaner, I would not use it because of the noise.
   If you get it and like it, why don't you come back with a report. While my shop is not small, I need to be doing more during these cold months.

2. 
   bones | Dec 20, 2004 06:05pm | #4

   Buzzsaw, you don't say if you have a primary dust collection system. I pick up most of my dust with a DC. It doesn't have to be a big two bag unit it can be as small as a shop Vac.  I saw a few months back, a fan/filter project in one of my wood mags.  I'll double check.

   I do not personally know about the one you linked to, but I have the Delta unit. Got it on sale for $240. It does 1200 cfm at 1 micron. I like it because it has a filter indicator that will remind me to clean the filter.  There is a smaller delta unit that does only 400 cmf at 5 microns. At wood craft it's 189, but I'm sure you might find that doable with a small garage.  I liked it because it had a shop light built in. I thought I would hang it over the table saw.

   Shop Vac makes a small portable tube type that does 235 cfm at 5 micron.  It is priced at $124. It is portable and could set on a table.

   JDS makes a very good one, but very expensive. I liked the JDS because it could also handle vapors (In some models) if you were going to be spraying. Jet makes a model as well.  I even saw one at Harbor freight this week-end. The cheapest would be the Fan with a filter hanging form the ceiling. I included a link to Woodcrafts site and you can find these at other good stores. I will say I like mine and it does a good job of picking up what my dust collector misses. 

   http://shop.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/search_results.asp?find_spec=air+filter&searchtype=AND&mscssid=0A2210CA27A6944689D6FC8CAA2FE327&Gift=false&GiftID=

    

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Dec 20, 2004 06:14pm | #6

   Bones,

     All I have is a shop-vac for my dust collection right now.  I am more concerned about the ambient dust that is probably getting into my lungs rather than the dust I can vacuum up. Thanks for your input and for the links.  It appears that this will be a research project as to which one makes the most sense for me.  My shop is in my basement and there isn't a lot of access to fresh air, especially this time of year as I don't want to open any windows or slider. Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   bones | Dec 20, 2004 06:47pm | #9

   I know what you mean about not opening a window. I got up this morning to 5 degree weather and no gas heat.

   When I had my first house and my shop was in the basement with no windows and below grade.  I used a sears painters mask. It was not the cheap Dr's mask type, but the type for painters with the cartridges. It was not real pleasant, but it did the trick.  I used the shop vac for a long time as my only DC device. After working for in the shop, I would leave the area and come back to clean up after everything had settled.  Check out the little delta unit that looks like a triangle. It would provide cleaner air and a light.  Good luck. 

1. 
   BBob | Dec 20, 2004 07:12pm | #10

   Buzz,
   I'm in the same boat as you - small basement shop with limited air and smaller budget to work with. I've been using a mini turbo that gets all the obvious stuff but there is always a film of fine dust everywhere. I've noticed that my wife is developing a cough for no reason and I'm suspecting the fine stuff is creeping upstairs.With that in mind, I did some searching on this site and came across a very comprehensive discourse on dust collection by Bill Pentz http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfmI suggest you read this before considering anything. It may well change your mind, as it did mine.I feel so strongly about this issue that I've stopped cutting wood until I can resolve this problem. From what I've read on this and other forums, the only clear resolution to dust of all sizes is a proper dust collection system.If you insist on an ambient system, search this forum for Jackie Chan, subject: Dust Collection. Good luck,
   Burt

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Dec 20, 2004 07:20pm | #12

   Thanks Burt for the link.  I will check out the site. Can you explain a little more about the mini turbo that you use...Regards,

   Buzzsaw

2. 
   BBob | Dec 21, 2004 01:20am | #13

   Buzz,
   The MiniTurbo is built by Fein and is their low end model. It has 920 amps, 6 gallon capacity, 63db noise level and a claimed 1 micron filter. I purchased it from Coastal Tool http://www.coastaltool.com for $145 which was the best price I found.If I would go this route again, I would opt for the Turbo II as this model has auto-triggering but I believe the mini has better filtering as a standard item. The nozzle's outside dimension is 1 1/4". The only tool I have that it fits without an adaptor is my DeWalt ROS. But then, every tool I have has a different dust port size ranging from 1" to 4" with every variation in between.If you decide to go the route of a vacuum, please get a good 1/2 face mask. I use the 3M 7502 with 2091 Particulate P100 filters http://www.monstersafety.com (888) 823-1233. Since I began using this mask I don't cough or have overt nasal and respitory problems. I put the mask on when I enter my shop and leave it on until the shop is cleaned, all machines off and I leave for the day. Since I began doing this I can detect particulate matter whenever I enter the shop without a mask. I could get an air scrubber but the problem is the initial particulate release to begin with. I will probably order a WoodSucker II in the next few days as I want to continue woodworking but also protect the health of myself and wife.Good luck,
   Burt

3. 
   RandMCapozzi | Dec 20, 2004 06:09pm | #5

   Buzzsaw,

   If you want to control dust, you need to get the dust before it enters the air. This must be done via a DC not an air cleaner. The air cleaner should be treated as a supplemental air quality device to the DC. Even a small portable 1 HP device hooked to your TS will do a far superior job at dust control than an air cleaner will.

   With that said, I have nearly an identical unit that I got from Sears (only single speed). I used it in my single car garage (10'x20') and it was barely ok. The unit was just to small to quickly clean the air very quickly and doesn't filter fine enough to remove the real dangerous particulate. It basically helped (although marginally) with dust settling on the car after I was done. The unwoven filter is a major PITA to clean too. I then upgraded to the JDS 750ER. That was a huge improvement. About 2.5 times more but I'd guess at least 10 times better at circulating the air and cleaning it.

   Even with the JDS, I still had to wear a mask because the air cleaner only catches the dust after its in the air and I've had a chance to breath it in. About 15 or so minutes after I turned off the dust making tool, I could normally remove my mask if the air filter was on high (750 cfm). 

   --Rob

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Dec 20, 2004 06:16pm | #7

   Rob,

     You make a lot of sense.  I may have to re-think what to purchase first. Can you suggest a small portable 1HP device?Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   RandMCapozzi | Dec 21, 2004 06:32pm | #14

   I believe that Delta, Jet, and Griz all have capable 1 - 1.5 HP portable models. These are most at home directly connected to a machine and not a ductwork network. They just don't have the power to handle the static pressure posed by ductwork and still provide the recommended CFM at the tool. Get a 1 micron or less bag / cartridge and you'll be quite impressed on how well they will work on a TS vs a shop vac. Cartridges are the big push these days and do have their advantages. I think a quality cartridge of 1 micron or less, if used with a separator, is the way to go.

   BTW - A DC will not replace your shop vac. DCs and shop vacs are complementary and mutually exclusive. While DCs excel at moving large amounts of air (CFM), they can not do so under high levels of static pressure (SP). Hobbyist DCs normally can only operate up to 10" of SP and still provide air movement. Shop vacs on the other hand, excel at moving low amounts of air at extremely high pressure. Shop vacs typically move between 100 - 150 CFM but can operate at SP in the 80 and 90 inch range.

   So you use the DC for the larger tools (TS, jointer, planer, down draft, router table). These tools normally have a high CFM requirement 400+ cfm and are normally outfitted with a 4" or larger dust collection hookup. The shop vac is best for tools with small CFM and small outlets. These include hand held sanders and routers. Shop vacs are also good with router tables if the table has a well designed dust collection pickup. Attaching a DC to a 1" or 2" port will generally yield far inferior performance than if a shop vac was used. The same can be said for the opposite. A DC will significantly outperform a shop vac when attached to a 4" hose. 

   Bill Pentz's site is excellent and I do recommend reading it over thoroughly. It will provide you with just about all the info you need to make the right decision about dust collection.

   Good luck,

   --Rob

4. 
   SCFrankland | Dec 20, 2004 06:21pm | #8

   The system you are asking about was tested a few months ago in one of the Woodworking Mags and was found to be an all right performer. I cannot remember which one was at the top of the list but it may of been the Delta. With that said Delta has a new one out now that is both a filter and a shop light and looks like it would work well in a small shop. The thing you have to look at is your cubic area and the CFM that the fan will move. They say 6 air changes a hour is what you should shot for.

   Scott C. Frankland

   Scott's WOODWORKING Website

   "He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."

5. 
   user-247493 | Dec 20, 2004 07:15pm | #11

   Why not build a filter yourself? I did and it works great. I got an old 1/4hp squirrel cage blower and built a simple plywood box with a opening/frame to hold a furnace filter (actually I use two filters, one coarse, one fine). I don't think I spent more than $50 on it and it moves a ton of air. I originally had it blowing towards my workbench, but it was like working in a wind tunnel, so I've relocated it.