After several months of researching steel frame bandsaws I’m about ready to buy an Agazzani 18″ model. I drove down to L.A. to check them out and found that the 18″ model has been updated to include a modified fence and a second dust port. To anyone who has this model saw, have you felt you needed more than the single dust port? The reason I ask is that they still have some of the older 18″ models in stock, which can be had for $200 less than the new model.
I have already done a search on this site of Agazzani owners and they seem to be a pretty happy bunch, but no specific mention of dust ports or fence. So any input regarding efficiency of these 2 features on this saw, or any other remarks on likes/dislikes will be appreciated. Thanks GP
Replies
The bigger Aggys (I have the 28in) have two outlets, if looking at the machine from the operating position (i.e. from the front of the blade) one outlet is at the rear bottom of body, the other is to the right hand side, just below the table and extracts from a small triangular semi-enclosure (i.e. it has no top) where the lower blade guides are housed. Must of the waste seems to be extracted from this latter point, but if you block off the lower one you find that there is a gradual build-up of dust in the bottom wheel housing. Has this same arrangement now been duplicated on the smaller saws?
Scrit
Scrit,
Yes, the 2nd dust port on the new 18" model is as you describe it (as I remember seeing it on the newer models last week). Don't know about any changes to the 16" model. Also the modification to the fence apparently includes more cast iron in it, but still adjustable to either upright or down flat on the table.
Ken I would like to know exactly what the MM salesman says about the "design flaw" in the Agazzani saws. I've found that you don't have to talk to bandsaw salesmen too long before they begin to rip apart their competition; that's especially true of MiniMax and Laguna. Never heard of either group rip an Aggazani before. Anyway, today I called in my order to Eagle Tools, the Ag dealer. I pick it up Saturday. If anyone's interested, I'll repost as to any problems, concerns, etc. Thanks to all who replied, this is the input I was hoping for. GP
Hi:
I just bought the 18" aggi with two dust ports from Eagle Tools. What part of nyour fence is cast iron? Mine is extruded aluminum. I like the saw but not the fence.
I don't own an Agazzani, but i do have a Laguna, which has two 4" dust ports. When sawing, the two ports provide dust extraction near the lower guides and at the base of the frame. The thought behind having both is to remove dust at the lower guides to reduce dust build up on the lower wheel and the lower frame port picks up anything that is missed.
On a side not you need to have larger than a 4" main line coming from your dust collector to make two 4" ports effective on the saw. If I had the choice I would definitely go for the two ports. I assume you are going with a 18" saw to do a lot of resawing, which makes a tremendous amount of dust.
Edited 2/5/2004 5:10:23 PM ET by ABENKER
I have the Agazzani 20", which has a cast and milled "T" section, but the fence itself is extruded alum. It works perfectly. It need not be any higher. From Eagle it was set at the correct drift, which is either none, or almost none. For resawing, I use a 1" Lenox carbide blade, but on the 18" I think you may need to back off to the 3/4" size. I do a pretty fair amount of resawing, and use it for the primary rip cut on almost everything.
Here is a pix of a featherboard that I made, which works quite well with it. The material is a 1" thick piece of UHMW. The saw cuts it well, but cleaning up the plastic pasta is a PITA.
AlanAlan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
S4S,
Nice featherboards, I'll try something similar to yours. Thanks.
Bakesale,
I haven't picked my saw up yet, I am scheduled to do so Saturday. I expect the fence will be the older model, aluminum, since I am buying the old model saw. If I can remember, while I'm at Eagle tools, I'll check out the differences in new vs. old fence and let you know.
Mack, I have been comparing steel frame saws since last summer, several times being on verge of ordering either MiniMax or Laguna. I had heard of Agazzani but never seen one (they don't attend the Woodworking shows and have no promotional video, just a brochure). Two wks ago I decided to drive 2 hrs to their showroom in L.A. I expected to be quoted a price more than their last summer's brochure listed, since the Euro has increased. Instead I was given a $200 discount from the brochure price, if I wanted the previous model 18" which had only the 1 dust port and old model fence. (This is not a discontinued model, BTW.) This saw seems to be just what I need; not quite as much HP & weight as the MM and Laguna, but most of my work will still be contour sawing rather than resawing so maximum power was never my primary need anyway.
Also this company has a pretty good record for satisfied customers, and the salesman didn't spend time ripping up the competition, just courteously showed me the features of the saw I was interested in. Also the Agazzani tech.s check out each saw before shipping, and it isn't going to be shipped to me covered in cosmoline like the MiniMax. When I phoned in my order yesterday, I talked to the owner and he is wiring it up to fit my plug configuration, with extra cord length to reach my floor plug. So here's hoping it is as I expect it will be. I'll let you know. Thanks again. GP
Hi,
Does this company have a web site?
Cheers,
Peter
Edit: found it through google :)
Edited 2/6/2004 9:39:35 AM ET by PeterDurand
gp
Thanks for your reply. Anxious to hear your impressions, I'm sure they will be positive. I intend to do a lot of resawing so I'm still leaning toward MM. I found a dealer less than 30 min. from our place in the city so I'm going over there next week to get a feel for their service and attitude. Sounds like the Ag folks know they have a great product and would be great to deal with. Thanks again for your input.
Mack
To those who asked what the difference in old fence vs. new fence on the Agazzani 18" saw: Not much. I took a quick look at one of the newer model fences when I picked up my saw Saturday. The only difference I could see was that the new models have slightly beefier cast iron brackets (the locking part, to which the aluminum fence bolts). Also the tightening handle is elongated instead of knob shaped.
The first few hours I used the saw, I was disappointed in the fence. It seemed awkward to set it for blade drift and it was on the wrong (left) side of the blade (I'm used to sawing with fence to right of blade). I fiddled with it and found that it's actually pretty well thought out: you unbolt the fence from the bracket and flip it (fence) end for end and reattach it to the other side of the bracket and it's set for sawing on the opposite side of blade. Also figgured out how to use the adjustment bolts to set for blade drift. So I'm satisfied with it: not as heavy duty as the MiniMax cast iron fence, but more versatile. Also have done a little resawing on it and don't see a real need for the second dust port on the newer model; one seems to work fine, leaving just a little dust in the very bottom of the cabinet.
I was also disappointed in the resaw abilities in thick wood (12" walnut). Seemed to take forever and a Lot more feed pressure then should be necessary. Then checked the blade; it's the standard 3/4" Lenox, 3 TPI, but a standard tooth, not hook tooth. I ordered a resaw blade from Timberwolf and I'm sure it will perform a lot better when it arrives.
This thing runs very quietly with almost no vibration. A nickel stands on the table without falling from start to shutdown. I'm still getting used to tracking, guide adjustment, blade changes, etc. And I'm still happy with the way I was treated by the dealer, Eagle tools. Saw was ready when I arrived, wired to fit my floor plug configuration with enough cord to reach it; salesman again went over the saw with me and answered all my questions, loaded it for me into my truck, even threw in 3 extra blades, extra table insert and some spray lube which he recommended for the guides. I've got an order to build 10 gun boxes so I'll really see how I like it when I start actually using it to build with; so far I've just played with it. Wow, didn't mean to get so longwinded but some asked for my opinion so there it is. GP
gp,
Thanks for your comments. I talked to a sales guy at Mini-Max yesterday. He impressed me by not slamming the other brands. I think it will boil down to your particular use and how you get along with the sales reps.
Please keep posting your impressions as your new saw gets "broken in".
Thanks again,
Mack
Here the two problems I'm having with the extruded aluminum fence. It's difficult to set the nut for the tighenting screw: close enough to get it real tight and it's a bear to get the fence on. Also, haven't got the hang of those drift adjustment screws. Any pointers?
Bake,
Here's the way I do it: to put the fence on, or to slide the fence forward or back, back off all three bolts (the center bolt with the black handle, and the 2 drift adjustment bolts that are just forward and aft of the center bolt). The fence should slide easily into whatever position you want it on the bracket. With both drift bolts backed off and the center bolt tightened, the fence lines up at exactly 90 degrees when the bar clamping knob is tightened. If I'm using the fence to rip thin stock, I don't usually bother to set it for drift.
To set for drift, I remove the fence and rip a piece of 3/4" thick scrap following a pencil line parallel to 1 straight edge. When I'm confident I'm sawing a straight line I shut the saw off and mark a dark pencil line on the table down the straight edge. This is the drift mark the fence has to be set parallel to. I put the fence on and tighten the knob that locks the fence to the table bar. I make sure all 3 fence bolts are backed off almost all the way off, then tighten whichever drift bolt (either the fore or aft one) moves the fence the direction it needs to go to be parallel to the pencil line. When you are tightening this bolt and the fence starts to move, clamp your hand around the fence and bracket to be sure the fence doesn't move away from the other end of the bracket. When the fence is set parallel to the line, tighten that same bolt good and tight and also tighten the locking nut. Then tighten up the middle bolt with the handle and just snug up the opposite end drift bolt and its lock nut. If you overtighten this last drift bolt, you will be trying to push the fence back away from the bracket, defeating your purpose. (I learned this the hard way, putting a pretty big scar in the aluminum fence channel before I got used to it.)
Also, after I finally figgured out how to use the fence, I removed the square locking nut that runs inside the aluminum channel and noticed it had a couple of burrs on it. I rubbed the 4 edges and both faces on a diamond stone. I also took the stone lightly to the top and outside edge of the table bar and waxed it. It seems to glide better now.
Sorry to be so long winded (again). After I've had the saw awhile I'm going to invest in either a bi-metal or carbide resaw blade; any suggestions would be welcome.
GP
I can recommend the Lenox TriMaster carbide tipped - 2 to 3tpi hook toth vari-pitch - a real beauty for ripping
Scrit
Alan -
Thanks for your post. Nice feather board!
My problem is that I can't seem to get the fence to slide on with the adjustment screws touching the fence. Also, having watched how old delta fences can be adjusted more accurately, it strikes me as odd that such a good saw would come with this fence.
I have another question. Why is the mitre slot so shallow?
Eric, Oakland.
Bakesale,
I can't aswer your questions. I have no idea why the mitre slot is so shallow. Seems silly to me. I bought the special miter guage, and never use it. As to the fence problem, I do not understand your question. My fence registers off of the insde face of the fence bar, with the screww tighteneing it from the face side. Bad design, in my view, but the fence does work well. Also, for this kind of money, a micro-adjust would be handy. When setting the fence for cutting veneers, it is a PITA. All of that said, however, I really like my 20" Agi. The featherboard works very well and was a worthwhile investment of time.
AlanAlan
http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com
Which one are you getting? I'm beginning the "think before buy" process on a upgrade BS. I'm leaning toward the MM due to bigger resaw and more HP per $. What made you decide Agg?
Mack
I attended the wood working show in Atlanta last weekend. While we were at the show, a friend of mine purchased a 20" Mini-Max. During our conversation with the Mini-Max rep, he mentioned in passing that Aganazzi had a basic "design flaw" in their band saw. We didn't follow up to find out what he meant by this comment. I'm not sure wether he was selling too hard or if there was any validity to his statement but I thought it might be worth mentioning.
Edited 2/4/2004 10:28:43 AM ET by Ken
I'd love to know what that basic flaw is, really. I've been using an Aggy (28in) 2 to 3 days a week for about 2 years now and I've yet to hit a major problem. One competitor pointed out that the cast iron tables don't go right back to the upright (mine has a 5in wide sheet metal insert) but I can't say I'd need it as I'm hardly likely to need to rip more than 21 inches. I was initially seriously underwhelmed by the aluminium rip fence, but I looked at the Steton, SCM-Centauro, Meber, ACM, Saggitario and a couple of others when I bought it and their band saws all had rip fences that could do with being a bit heavier, too (we don't see thsi cast-iron fences much in the UK market). The sale was made in part on minor details, like the solidity of the trunnions, etc. Point is it all works, nothing has fallen off (yet) and at least the paintwork and fit and finish are pretty reasonable, and when I broke a couple of the knobs the factory were reasonably quick to ship (about a week - fortunately more cosmetic than functional)
I've read articles wherein it was stated that the great Sam Maloof (would that I had an ounce of his talent with chairs) has a couple of Aggys in his shop, so I doubt that I bought a lemon.
Scrit - Unrepentent Aggy driver
Scrit,
My friend who purchased the bandsaw has the Mini-Max salesman's business card. If I get a chance, I will call later this week and ask him to describe the "flaw" in greater detail. If I am successful, I will pass along his answer. As I indicated in my earlier post, this was said during the heat of his sales pitch and may not be entirely accurate.
By the way, the machine they were selling at the show is actually a Centauro which I believe is imported from Italy. The fence on the 16" and 20" models we saw in the show were made of cast iron.
Hi Ken
The Centauro factory is apparently not far away from SCM at Rimini (?) in Italy. In the UK SCM dealers sell Centauros under their own name, not rebadged as SCM which is what appears to be happening in the USA.
Scrit
Yes Centauro is Italian, here it's widely claimed to be the best on the market.(like 90% of the furniture builders I've met and I live in the furniture industry area of Italy). Agazzani is considered second. Mini-max from what I heard is built by Centauro.
Philip
Philip
SCM (MiniMax's owners) certainly sell Centauros under the Centauro banner here (in the UK) as opposed to the MM banner in the USA, but as to them being "the best"? (seriously, I want to know) I bought an Aggy simply because it was good enough for the job I had in mind, the fit and finish were right up there with the Centauro and ACM (Laguna), but more to the point the dealer was more "on song", i.e. interested in what I was doing and able to provide support, as opposed interested in his mark-up, like the SCM guys I met.... I'm not saying the Centauro isn't good - it's just that the difference between the Agazanni, the Centauro and the ACM (Laguna) isn't all that much, so it's probably down to how you view the service, etc. All of them will probably perform up to expectation in the real world.
Regards
Scrit
Edited 2/13/2004 6:32:16 AM ET by Scrit
Yeah, well.. here as Centauro isn't distributed by SCM the service (for what you need it on a band saw,my Framar is from 1981 and I've never needed service) is fine. I personally don't own a Centauro so all I know is what I hear but you can bet that next year when I change my saw the new one will be a Centauro (60cm or 70 cm). As to mini-max my old combination machine was a mini-max built when they still belonged to Arbor Industries built .as they still are ,not in Italy ,but in the Republic of San Marino(Teacup country, tax haven).In comparison to the market they were much better in quality then as compared to now and the service was perfect. SCM put on lots of bells and whistles and copied alot of the Felder systems but still put on alot of "plastic" to save on cost. I guess you get what you pay for.
Anyway my last combination machine is a Felder and after using it for two years if I had to buy a new one I would still spend a few extra Euro and get a Felder. And like I said Agazzani is a close second and if you go down around Carpi ,Modena you can find a number of smaller builders that produce just as good a machine.Like you said as long as you're looking at a machine of 50cm up most all of the Italian built do their job well and the only difference boils down to motor capacity, which ,if you know what you're looking for you can order one with the motor you need.
Philip
Think you Scrit for the info on power feeders.
Jeff in so cal
Those folks over at Miniwax sure like to find flaws in other company's don't they. This has to a hard way to make a living.
Just one man's thoughts.
This is terrible way to make my first post.
Have you ever talked to a "MM" guy. I have talked in depth with a least three of their sales people on separate occassions and not once did they denigrate any competitor. They don't have to!
I talked with the Felder guys in Sacramento and they didn't denigrate any of their competition, they don't have to! (BTW their Band Saws are Ags)
I have talked with the Laguna people, and that's a different story.
I purchased over $10,000 in MM goods based in part upon MiniMax's very positive attitude about their product and their knack of not knocking the competition. My fellow MM owners don't even knock the competition on our forum. We don't have to.
BTW, my MiniMax 16" BS could use another dust port for the bottom wheel.
Michael in San Jose
Yeah, here too, the guy I always dealt with for minimax never bothered to compare or rag on the competition. Even when I told him that I bought a new combination Felder he just said" Yeah well ,it's a good machine." He knew it, I knew it, honesty counts, I've sent him about 5 customers now and will send him more.Felder suited my needs but as to cost/quality Minimax is equal if not better and I like their sales guys better.If minimax had been able to offer me the same features and the same accessories as Felder I would have bought Minimax .
Philip
P.S. I never had ay problem with the Felder service or anything.... but something about the Minimax is just more friendly.
I have the older version and don't see the need for
another port. I'm curious about the new fence. Mine works
well and I re-saw frequently with it. If you haven't yet invest
in a carbide tipped 1/2" blade. The re-saw results are amazing.
Ken
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