I would like some input to after market table saw miter gauges, i.e. Osborne, Incra and JointTech, etc. I have a Delta Unisaw.
I have the JointTech and have never been partcularily fond of it. Wife just bought me a Incra model. She had noticed I was looking at the Osborne since that is the one that The New Yankee Workshop uses. The salesman convinced her that the Incra was better.
CaptDavid
Replies
I have an Incra 3000 SE and love it. It holds it's settings, has adjustable scales that can be set to zero, and then you have definite stops every 1/32" for the full length of the bar. It comes with a flip stop which is very handy. The head is adjustable in 1/2 degree increments for angle cuts. All in all, it is a very versatile and sturdy miter gauge.
Bruce
The Incra my wife bought was the 1000. It does look well built. As I said I was leaning towards the Osborne only because Norm uses it.
The Joint Tech is heavy and cumbersome, so I use the original Delta most of the time.
David
I have the Osbourne and it actually makes cutting wood square easy even for a hack like me.
I have the Incra 1000 and really like it, but bought it before the 1000SE came out (probably the model your wife bought, right?). I know a couple wooworkers who swear by the Osborne. Click here for a review on the Osborne that has "what I like" and "what I don't like" at the bottom. I didn't read all the way through it, so no summary here. Keep in mind that Norm may use it because he was given one. ;-) forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I bought the Osborne. I like the design and construction, but the main selling point for me was the support strut, which also functions as a detent for common angles. The Incra, while well engineered, always struck me as a bit dainty. Lots of folks love the Incra, though.
David,
You can do a Google search on "aftermarket miter gauges" and spend about a week reading all the comments on all of the different models. I stopped after about two hours. I had found positive and negative comments on all of the models, and decided to stop reading that stuff. So I asked the guys who I worked with at the Woodcraft store. All had experience with one or more of the gauges. Three of them had different miter gauges, and all of them liked the one they had (no surprise there). In fact, that sort of proves that you can be happy with whatever you have.
One of the guys asked if I have a crosscut sled. Yup, I have the Dubby. He said that he prefers having two crosscut sleds. One small one with one track and a larger one with two tracks. I asked him how he keeps his homemade crosscut sleds in perfect square. His answer "masking tape". He made a great point.
The limitation of his crosscut sleds is that they only cut at 90 degrees, and 45 degrees with the addition of the jig for that.
I have the Dubby sled, which is relatively small, and only uses one track. Almost all of the cuts I make are 90 degrees, but it allows "dead on" cuts to be made at any angle. Sometimes I use other angles. This is easy to set up, and very precise.
When I first got the Dubby, was fascinated with how precise the sled could be adjusted, using the well known "five cut" method. I tried it and was able to make an octagonal frame with absolutely no light shining through any of the joints. It looked "perfect" to me. I was delighted.
I guess I haven't added much to your thread except a bit of an alternative to miter gauges. I am going to forego an aftermarket miter gauge, and stick with my Dubby, and also build a larger crosscut sled for crosscutting larger pieces. Now I do that on the large crosscut sled down at the shop at the Woodcraft store.
I think you could be happy with any of the aftermarket miter gauges or the Dubby or a homemade crosscut sled or two.
Have fun.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
I 've been using the least expensive V27 Incra miter gauge for several years now and it has been dead on accurate, smooth in operation, and bullet proof. I think there adjustable miter bar set up is the best on the market. I think your wife picked the right one. Norm uses the Osborne because he got it for free, not because he though it was the best one.
I have two Incra V27's. One with short sacrificial fence and one with long OEM fence. I also built a sled with fence forward in lieu of rear last week in about an hour for under $10 which gives me 30" cross-cut capacity. All are accurate and the quality of the Incra is excellent.
But... I have also seen the well made Osborne and I have no doubt it is accurte also from comments I have read. Sort of a six of this.. half dozen of another.
Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
Good morning Sarge:
I was just wondering how do you like the sled you built with the fence mounted on the front? I never used one like that but I have seen a few pictures of them, I would like to build one wide enough to square up panels after glue up +/- 22" I think that would be large enough for most of my projects. You have a good day and thank you.
Mike
I have always not been partial to a sled with the fence mounted rear as you just have to pull it too far off the table to do a very wide cross-cut. You either have to add extension support which is in the way for most of the other cuts or you try to balance which can lead to precise.
I love the idea of the front fence as the entire front portion of the sled starts on the table with applying force down and forward. So.. that allows you to acutally hang the stock off the rear as you are keeping constant pressure down and forward on the talbe at all times with nothing extended to get in the way.
It ranks up there with discovering a Bosch barrel grip jig saw with the new.. extra clean blades they came out with. Both a major leap forward!
Regards...Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
Sarge:
Thanks for the reply, sounds like you like it, I'm between projects right now and it's snowing up here this morning. This morning I have to finish building a dog house for my neighbor that I started yesterday then I think I will build a new sled. Thanks again Sarge you have an excellent weekend.
Mike
Good points Sarge. I've never liked a rear fence for the reasons you state but never thought of a front fence.Now - if I could just modify my JoinTech ? ? ?Frosty“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert,
in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand.” Milton Friedman
Same with me Frosty as I have never bothered with a sled because of that fact. I saw this on a Blog on the WW Life by a poster here and realized I have missed the boat by never having thought of it. When I saw it.. Bingo. I had one built the next morning in time to cross-cut a 22" (I forget exactly) top for a table I will post Monday.
BTW.. I did cross-cut a 30" piece of scrap ply just to see what capacity I could get and feel comfortable that the sled was solidly on the table for the whold ride. I do have a 28" wide top on my TS so a few inches wider than the standard saw top.
Regards... Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
Sarge,
Really no big thing. Here's another approach. This was way back in the beginning and have added much since then. Right now I'm incorporating the rail into the top of a storage cabinet for power hand tool storage.
View Image
That's a 2' x 8' piece of luan.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
It the extention support permanent Bob.. or can it easily be detached and removed for the majority of time that it's not required. If I had a larger shop a permanent would be fine as on a slider but... that would cause a major traffic jam getting around the left side of my saw where all jigs.. blades... TS accessories are on a wall to the left but a wall work counter comes up and meets the front left corner of the saw.
If not permanent.. how did you attach? I like the front fence sled I built as I simply take it off the left wall where it hangs flat.. place it on the saw and I'm ready to make the cut in 10 seconds. When finished.. lift it off and put it back on the wall nail hook.. Presto... done!
I think space may play a large role in dictating what is and what isn't good for an individual situation. That is nice to be able to handle a whole sheet as yours but.. I simply don't use ply other than for drawer bottoms and chest backs. If I did I would have to re-arrange the whole shop to accomodate for it or in my case I would probably purchase a panel saw for my rear shop.
Regards...Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
Sarge,
In the picture it's, well, none of the above. :-) It's just resting on the jointer and I added a stop for when I need to extend it towards the operator when handling large sheet goods. I use it to knock down large sheets into small parts. It won't handle a full sheet but I wasn't looking to do that with the sled.
Still head scratching at the moment. What I'm thinking of is to make the outrigger in two sections some sort of bridging pieces on the cabinet top. The moveable piece would have one end on a stand and the other end on the cabinet. I could simply slide it back when needed. When finished with the cut(ting) slide it back so it's out of the way.
It's a compromise any way I look at it but this is working for me. I also hang the sled on the back of a door when not in use. I've added a miter bar which makes it like a big Dubby. The sled that is. :-)
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks for the explanation, Bob. I believe the key statement is.. It's working... which about says it all.
Good luck on the decision..
Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
Bob,
that saw setup of yours looks like it could handle four by eights of 12/4 rock maple. ( God, what a thought. My head is spinning). Do you do a lot of work requiring large pieces on the table saw? I don't. That is not a criticism, just a question. Some folks do big work. Some do mostly medium, and some mostly small. Probably small to medium mostly for me. Over the past few years I have been making a conserted effort to get away more and more from the table saw. I sold my old (and not so good) original Rikon 14" bansaw last month, and just ordered a Powermatic with the riser kit today. Egad. A hit to the pocketbook. The Woodcraft discount is great for smaller stuff, but not so much on the big stuff. About 20% on this one. I have been doing more on the bandsaw, and with handsaws and less with the tablesaw. There are some things that the table saw is great for, for me, and I use it for those things. I have been being very careful with it. I saw another guy in at Woodcraft today with the top of his right thumb missing. Have been enjoying my workbench. Have made a nine drawer box and inserted it between the four stretchers of the workbench. Could have bought the storebought one, but wanted to do full extention drawers. Never had big vices before. They are a godsend. Have also attached a carving vice which goes into a dog hole, and clamps from beneath. It is a heavy duty son of a gun. Am now doing an 8" x 8" shell (non traditional) for which the big vice is overkill but what the heck. Have finished the BIG Eastlake dresser and my wife is using it. It looks great now - like right out of the showroom. Glad to have it out of the shop. I couldn't move with it in there. Also, am in the middle of re-doing four chairs with rush. First time with rush. It is MUCH easier than doing caning by hand. I did my first one of those earlier this year. Probably my last too. It worked out nicely but not my cup of tea. Also am making some training videos for a manufacturer of power carving equipment. That is a hoot. So what are you making these days?
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Guess I'm going in the opposite direction, i.e. I use the TS a LOT. The reason for the big sled is that it does all my cross and miter cuts (with the Dubby bar I added), the long fence with the stop allows consistent long (up to 4') cuts. Works good for setting up tenons. Remember the huge sled David Marks used on his show? This one's a one legged version. :-)
I think it's the most versatile sled I've ever used. Next up is a tapering jig for it. I modeled the handle after a Millers Falls plane tote. Slicker 'n trout.
Puttin the reins on a new hossy.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 10/12/2009 10:00 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Sarge:
Yesterday I got around to building that front mounted fence sled that Rob posted in a FWW blog, I think I'm really going to like this sled, mine will get used mostly for squaring up glued up panels usually around that 20" mark. I tried it out on some 3/4" ply and crosscut a 28" wide piece without a hitch. this has to be one of the easiest jigs I've ever built. I had thought of building the Ultimate Crosscut Sled, but this one will suite my needs fine, I don't work with much sheet goods so the UCS was overkill for my needs. Thanks.
Mike
Your use and mine are basically the same it appears Mike. I mainly built it to cross-cut a top around 22". I had been doing it with my SCMS which will handle around 13"-14" but... I had to turn the panel over which will normally result in a thin ridge as it is almost impossible to get the second cut exact. I would cut 1 mm proud on each end and take the ridge out with a block plane.
This sled makes it a very simple one-step operation that is exact without further fettle. Yep.. it is extremely easy to make and frankly it could have saved a ton of time for me over the years. I love it pretty much says it all in my case.
Regards...Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
Sarge; I also did the two sided cutting with the SCMS or a straight edge and a circular saw and then fine tuned with a plane, but this is way simpler and quick to boot. I never built a big rear fence sled because as you stated earlier I didn't like the idea of holding it up in front of the saw. I guess sometimes in woodworking the best things are the easiest. You have a great day.
Mike
Sarge,
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh I see we've won another over to the dark side.
Happy sledding,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Sorta... I still use the Incra miter gauge on angles and stock no wider than 12" but.. we'll see what the future holds. I do like this front fence version as you've already figured out. :>)
Regards... and glad you got your tools back, BTW...Sarge..
Woodworkers' Guild of Georgia
The Dark Side.. I just loved that TV show!
I can use my old Incra fence AS IS without problems. I do clamp the stick so it does not move.
Edited 10/19/2009 1:35 pm by WillGeorge
I'm sorry that you are not happy with your JoinTech. I can't believe that there is a more accurate unit and I question if you will find one that has the unique feature of "fence backup" at all angles.
Try the others before you buy - or at least don't discard the JoinTech until you are really sure that something else is really better.
Frosty
“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert,
in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand.”
Milton Friedman
To All,
thank you for your imputs on the miter gauge issue. I have built and used for many years a cross cut sled for 90 degrees and another dedicated for 45's.
I was in the Woodcraft store in Kansas City with a friend last month. I find the people very knowledgeable there as opposed to my store in Texas and they were suggesting the Incra 1000 over the Osborne. Like I said before the JointTech is accurate just cumbersome to pull off of the wall for the occasional odd angle. I agree that Norm does use tools that were given to him, but he has been using the Osborne for years now. I was merely looking for something I could hang from saw to grab in a hurry.
I will probably stay with the Incra only to avoid the hurt of exchanging a gift from my new wife.
Thanks
CaptDavid
Did you say NEW wife! Don't even think about exchanging that gift. That's crazy talk!
You are right, of course. I have assembled it and gotten used to it while making a mappa burl end table for the media room.
I have the incra1000se and its dead on and completly micro adjustable. You will not be disapointed.
I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.
George Burns
The new wife is English and not knowledgeable about the shop. She thought that she was getting me something that I needed. As you said, anyone of the gauges will do the job, very well. The local Woodcraft guy today said he favored the Osborne. So far every person has favoreded their gauge while giving due to the competitors.
It is pleasant for a change here in Houston with 75 degree temps, must be time to get in the shop.
CaptDavid
I have had my Incra 1000se for along time and IT WORKS! About all I can say about it! As in I love it! There may be better but mine works better that just OK so I have not looked for ... a better one?
Edited 10/10/2009 3:49 pm by WillGeorge
I have a Woodhaven deluxe--have had it probably a decade and I've never had an issue with it nor can I say anything negative about it. Fairly reasonable price too!
I have the early version of the Osborne and love it. Accurate, and like someone else said, I also like the part that acts as a brace, which maintains the angle even better.
Alan - planesaw
First off, if wife bought it, it's a keeper.
I have the Incra 5000, and really like it. My first project with it was a round table (44" diameter) with circumference trim made from an octagon. I set the gauge to 22.5 degrees, and when I assembled the octagon, the total error at the final joint was less than 1/64". That's across 16 cuts.
The unit is pretty big, so I later bought the 1000 SE. I recently needed a cut at 3.4 degrees on a small piece. Using the vernier on the SE, it came out right on.
I had a problem with the 5000 at one angle setting. When I called the manufacturer, he helped me through a few tests, then sent me a new part. No bs, no paperwork, just sent me the part, and I no longer have the problem. So, while I know there might be better ones out there, INCRA has satisfied me as providing value for their tools, and outstanding support.
Bob,
You are right if the wife buys it, I should keep it. She was so proud of herself for getting me something for my shop for our one year anniversary. It is amazing how I have struggled with something so simple as a upgrade for my Delta Unisaw miter gauge.
Thanks David
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