I’m an advanced beginner with a shop (table saw, router) and an old house for which I need to do repairs. I keep looking at miter saws and am overwhelmed by the choices. It’s time to make a decision as I have projects that would be easier with such a saw. ( I could keep using the table saw, but on the next project that’s two flights for every cut.) I’ve searched the discussion forum, and see that I’ll avoid all Craftsman tools. I think I don’t need a 12″ saw – 10″ is sufficient for my needs. I’d like it to be lighter weight if I don’t sacrifice quality, as I’m a 51 year old female who is not as strong as I used to be. (Sigh). Does it need to be a compound saw? What advantage does slider have? I live in large metropolitan area so can go to stores – though HD seems to have the lion’s share of the market. Budget is a minor issue – I can’t go crazy – but if I buy the right saw and use if for the rest of my life it would pay for itself.?
Recommendations and suggestions welcome.
Thanks.
Replies
The best miters available would be the 12" bosch (4212L) or the dewalt (dw706) both $350 from amazon.com
The best slide compound miter saw would be either the bosch 10" dual compound (4410) about $550 or the makita 10 dual slide $395 on sale right now from amazon.com.
I would go with either of the two sizes above. A 10" compound miter is too small, it will limit you for the future and is just a waste. A 12" slide only allows you to cut a little bit more than the 10". Both can cut a 4x6 but neither can cut a 6x6, so these no need to get the 12", its just extra money and the 12" replacement blade will cost more than the 10".
The main advantage the slider gives you, is you can cut greater widths. Depending on what your cutting, you may need the greater cutting capacity. Also, it is helpful for cutting large crown moldings because you can lay them flat, the crown may be too big for the 12" to cut flat.
Both the 12" miters are about 40 to 50 pounds, so not light. The sliders will be a little more and larger, baulkier.
You'll get a lot of thoughts on miters in the breaktime forum (up near the top of the screen, right in the center). Most of those guys are contractors and all of them will have miters that they use often and move around constantly. The stand they all like is the rigid for $150.
From what I have read I have to agree with DDay that the most favorably reviewed 10" sliders are the Bosch 4410 and the Makita 1013. I was about to buy the Bosch but then noticed a couple of negative reviews on Amazon.com about slop in the head casting showing up at the blade. Has anyone else heard anything about this?
I'd steer clear of Craftsman and Ryobi. There are many good makes- Hitachi,Makita,Delta,Bosch etc. Just make sure it has an aluminum body and base not steel (for mobility) and at this stage, I don't think you'd need all the features of a compound saw. A regular chop box should suffice.
But if you want to spend money, in my opinion, the best is the Hitachi compound sliding saw.
I couldnt agree more on the Hitachi 10" slider being the best saw out there.
I was at lowe's the other day, they have a 10" delta mitersaw for $78.00. Don't laugh , I bought this exact saw three years ago for $99.00.It is not a compound mitersaw but works fine. I use it as a lightweight trimsaw and for occasional framing.I have a milwaukee slidesaw that stays in the shop, I bought the delta for portability mostly.Take a look at it, if you do not need a compound miter, this saw will fill the bill.
mike
Here's my take on how you can narrow your options.
First, 12 " saws are heavy, and great if you plan on cutting 4X4 or 4 X 6 timbers or very large crown moldings. Otherwise a 10" saw will do you just fine.
A sliding, compound mitre saw (SCMS) will cross cut a board up to about 12" wide.
The gold standard for some time has been the Makita 1013 -- accurate, lightweight for this class, and compact. I have one, and use it mostly for cabinet work. The Bosch seems to be preferred by framers; it is rugged, all the controls are up front -- but the rap is it is not always accurate. this is not a problem for framers, but it could be for either cabinet or trim work. However, I would also check out the Hitachi, since every one that has one seems to rave about it (these are relatively new to the market).
A regular compound mitre saw (CMS) has a cross cut capacity of about 6". These generally hold their accuracy better than the SCMS, simply because there are fewer moving parts. A good saw if you are only doing trim, light framing (up to 2 X 6 material) or crown molding.
In your particular case, if you are schlepping the saw around to different parts of the house, I would also look at the 8 1/2" Hitachi SCMS. This saw has been around forever (maybe 20 years). It is small, very lightweight, easy to carry around, and has a cross cut capacity of 12". It will swing to the right or left, but the blade tilts in only one direction -- which is its major shortcoming. Still, this is the saw I still carry with me for job site work -- because it is so light, and very accurate. Also, it is pretty useless for crown moldings -- except the smallest variety.
For stands, you have basically two choices: 1) With wheels, saw stays attached to the stand, and the stand itself folds up for transport. 2) Stands that break apart (usually three pieces), with the saw on a platform that attaches to the stand. Here, you carrry the components to your work site and assemble them.
I use a Trojan, which is in the first category. Once the thing is set up, I love it; but let me tell you what a pain it is to move up stairs or lifting it into a truck. I have used it for maybe 5-6 years, and I am ready to toss it in favor of one of the stands that break apart for transport. It may take a couple more trips to move your rig, but I think I would prefer that to trying to lift that heavy Trojan (with the saw attached) in and out of my van. Besides the break-down stands take up less storage space.
Hope this helps.
Very good points nikkiwood has made, and I agree with.
I got rid of my 12" saw because of the weight and the fact that I didn't find the need for anything more than a 10" blade would do. I also didn't feel it was as accurate for trim or furniture making. Still the 12" is great for framing.
I now use my Hitachi 10 duel bevel in the shop and a Makita 7 1/2" slider (LS0714) for trim and cabinetry work. I really love this saw. It is even smaller than the Hitachi 8 1/2" and very easy to move from room to room, and also very accurate. It weighs about 26 pounds and can cross cut 12" shelving. Bevels only one way.
As far as stands go, I have used the Trojan which nikkiwood has and found it sturdy and well built. However, I agree that transporting the stand/saw is a pain in the rear. Not long ago I bought a Shophelper stand from American Design and Engineering. WOW this thing is great! It sets up quickly, is much easier to move (although it is 3 parts) and is very sturdy. The built in fence is a great time saver. I wish I would have bought one a long time ago instead of using my home made one for so long. Only draw back is the price.
Edited 3/15/2005 7:03 pm ET by Bob
I know about that american Design stand, and have always thought of it as among the best of its type. 3) questions:1) Do you break it down a lot and carry it to your job sites (or wherever you're working -- or does it pretty much stay in your shop?2) Some of these type stands are now coming with two small wheels, that facillitate moving it -- say from one room to another. do you know if they have this accessory available?3) Is ther anything at all you don't like about the stand? I doubt if there are any major probs (otherwise you would not have kept it, or even bought it in the first place), but I am curious if there are any little irritations you have now that you have been using it for some time. Thanks.
nikkiwood:
1)" Do you break it down a lot and carry it to your job sites (or wherever you're working -- or does it pretty much stay in your shop?"
I mostly use the stand for site work, although I have used it in the shop at times when I wanted a two miter saw set up.
2) "Some of these type stands are now coming with two small wheels, that facillitate moving it -- say from one room to another. do you know if they have this accessory available"?
I don't believe wheels are an option with this stand but you might be able to rig something up on your own. I have not missed not having wheels. The stand breaks down quite easily and sets up in a minute or less.
3) "Is ther anything at all you don't like about the stand? I doubt if there are any major probs (otherwise you would not have kept it, or even bought it in the first place), but I am curious if there are any little irritations you have now that you have been using it for some time".
Well I always like to save weight when using any on site tools and this stand is no exception. I think it weighs about 60 pounds for the 3 pieces. That isn't too bad, but lighter is better when moving from location to location. I cant think of anything I would change on it.
It is very easy to put into a van, truck or even a car trunk. Set up is quick, it is very stable when set up, and accuracy is great. You can actually use the tape on the fence for spot-on measurements. Very well made.
Hope this helps
Bob
bob,One more question: I looked it up, and the catlog listing I found says you can buy it with 5' or 8' fences/supports on either side of the saw. Do these items either collapse or break apart -- so the 8' section could be transported in pieces less than 8' long?I'm getting another case of tool lust....................Thanks for your feedback.
Hopefully you can follow this wordy response.
Each section of the support will measure about one foot shorter than the stated dimension. This is because the total length is measured from the saw blade and will include the table of the miter saw. Therefore an 8' support will have an actual measurement of 7'. If you don't have a way to transport a seven foot section of table support than you might want to just go with the five footers (which measure 4' in length).
Whew I hope that made since.
As for the Dewalt 706, I and some others have found it to be a great framing saw and a poor trim and furniture making saw. The 12" blade will give some deflection on bevel cuts. But worse than that there is a problem with the table lifting when tightened down. This seems to be at its worst when using angles which are not the detents. All of the Dewalts which use this design exhibit this to some degree. I still think it is one of the better saws for framing though.
Edited 3/17/2005 11:17 am ET by Bob
Apparently American Design is trying to sell these things direct, so there aren't many places that handle their stuff. But I found one locally, and managed to slip round there to have a look today. I studied it pretty carefully, and we even broke it down, so I could get a sense of what we'ire talking about for component parts. It clearly is a slick system, and I'll probably buy it after I chew on the decision for a while. It would be nice if the tables could telescope -- or even if they made a 3' and 5' table that could be joined (so you could have an 8' table on the left side of the saw). But life isn't perfect, so I think I will just live with what they've got. Also, I am told they sell some sort of gismo that you can add to the rig for cutting crown molding. Do you use that device, or have you seen it? Think it is worth having? I do a fair amount of crown, and have my own jig, but it might be interesting if they have designed something specifically for their table. Thanks again for your help.
nikkiwood, I do not have the crown attachment for the Sawhelper. I made my own from some scrap wood. But judging by the construction of the rest of the system I would bet crown attachments would be well built and thought out. I may look into it a little more for my own use.
Where do you purchase your Makita LSO 714. I want a lite saw. I've been told this saw is only available in Canada. If this is true can you get parts from the states?Thanks
Yes I got mine from Canada at Atlas Machinery. Very helpful people. Parts are available from them or I have been told Makita USA can also get any parts needed.
http://www.atlas-machinery.com/machinery.htm
Thanks much - everyone - for your suggestions. After mulling about the choices, haunting Amazon and Ebay and reading technical specs - your statement that the Hitachi 8 and half SCMS is the one you move around with you and that it has been around for ages (i.e. all the bugs worked out) sold me on it. I pulled the trigger this morning at Amazon. Took them up on their credit card offer - so I get the saw for $339. I'm hoping I'll like it as much as you do. I finally realized that there wouldn't be too many of the good saws on Ebay - people would hold onto them through thick or thin. And I need the saw NOW -- just discovered that the reason a certain room is COLD is the 1 inch gap that has opened between the floor and the wall that was hiding behind a book case!! (I've left a full-time job that had me too busy to investigate such things.) Now that's a problem ....this list is great. Thanks again
$339 ------When I bought mine -- I can't remember when but it had to be 12-15 years ago, it was $500. At the time, I think it was the only sliding mitre saw available. Goes to show what a little competition can do for prices. If you can accept the limitations I noted earlier -- I think you'll be very satsified with it. Good luck, and hapy renovating.
The saw came today.. delivered by Fed Ex. After careful reading of manual .. I set it up. I've just done my first 45 degree cut. Heavenly. I somehow couldn't get my mate to understand how delicious the two perfectly fitting sides for a right angle are. : ) I'm a bit puzzled by the instructions about aligning the table insert - but I'll keep reading and thinking. I can see that I'll want a stand and will go back and read the thread about stands. Now to improve my skills! A.
"I somehow couldn't get my mate to understand how delicious the two perfectly fitting sides for a right angle are. : ) " I know exactly what you mean, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
RE: adjusting the insert.So you don't muck up the insert, adjust the saw to 45 degrees (with the lever on the back of the saw). Then take a screwdriver, and fiddle with the inserts on both sides of the blade -- until the blade just clears each half of the insert. Then return the saw blade to 90 degrees, and you'll see the inserts are now some distance from the blade. If you want to have the full benefit of the insert (reduced splintering on the back of the piece you are cutting), then readjust the the insert pieces (so again, they just clear the blade).I think that will help you see how the insert functions, and how you can adjust it. For my part, I adjust for the 45 degree cut, and just leave it there for everything. With a reasonably sharp blade, the back-side splintering is negligible. Otherwise, if you do cut something at 45 degrees, you have to adjust the insert, or the blade will cut the insert.It's seems more complicated than it actually is, but going through this adjustment will give you the hang of what's going on.
AmP -- you and I are in the same age range, and I can identify with the "not as strong as I used to be" LOL! My first miter saw was an 8-1/4" Delta -- bought because it was cheap and lightweight. Way too small though. I ditched it for a Bosch 12" CMS last summer.
You can get this saw right now from Amazon for $222 minus $25 = $197. Free shipping. If you don't need the large cross-cut capacity of a sliding CMS, the 12" regular CMS is a great way to go. You'll have capacity to cut 4x4's and 10x stock. You can even cut 12x stock if you flip it over and line it up carefully. The saw is powerful and very solidly built.
It is heavy, I'll give you that, but you could get a folding, wheeled stand to put it on, and just wheel it wherever you need it. I would recommend buying the extension support brackets with stop if you don't get a stand for it. They're quite reasonably priced compared to DeWalt and Delta ($17.99).
The more expensive Bosch 12" mentioned above is the brand new model with the laser. Not necessary, IMHO, especially if you'd rather spend the money on a portable stand.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I think the Dewalt 706 is perfect for you. 10" saws do not have the features or accuracy you will want. The 706 will cut 8". You would only need a slider if you frequently need to cut more than that. compound miters are almost exclusively used on crown. Even then it is better to cut crown "in position", which does not require a compound cut. Never the less I some times us the bevel cut on very tall pieces that wont fit under the blade. Porter cable receintly came out with a new saw that rivals the 706 in features, but I've not used it.
Good luck,
Mike
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