Yesterday we introduced Google Adwords here. I could argue that caskets can be considered woodworking. Several of us on the staff, myself included, actually built one for a colleague a few years back. But that’s not the kind of advertising we intend to run. Obviously, there are still bugs to work out.
Fine Woodworking magazine and its companion website have always included advertising. As regular readers and visitors know, we don’t just run any ads. Unlike many woodworking magazines and sites, we don’t run ads pushing medicine or mattresses or super grass seeds, etc.
As the publisher, I have killed a number of ads that I did not deem proper or endemic. I will continue to monitor what goes up here and in the magazine. Not everyone agrees with every decision I make, but I make those decisions based on feedback from our audience, my colleagues and the needs of our business.
I personally hate pop-up ads or anything that is jarring and requires me to fight to get to the content, so you won’t see any of that junk here. However, advertising helps us defray the costs of these forums, pays for developing content and informs the audience of useful products for their woodworking. We have not had a robust web advertising program so far because we have focused on building the site and developing new content. Matt Berger and the rest of the staff have done a great job. Now it’s time to get the ad program going. We’ll be trying different types of ads and placement to see what works and what doesn’t.
And I’m pretty sure I can rely on all you folks for some feedback.
–Anatole Burkin
Publisher
Replies
Anatole,
I understand the need to survive, i.e. make money, BUT I pay for the privilege if using this site.
I understand the ads for Taunton items, BUT "ads by Google" are beyond the pale!
I would be willing to pay more for this site if necessary, but I may not renew if these egregious ads persist!
Mike Holden
I have been using Firefox with Ad Blocker installed for general browsing. I don't see any ads. Anywhere. Unless I unblock a particular site. Firefox has a few oddities, at least on my PC. But it has been well worth putting up with them.Take care, Mike
Edited 7/1/2007 6:36 pm by mwenz
Mike, if you read my reply to Anatole above, you know I'm pretty PO'd about the ads too, but please note: You do not have to pay for Knots. The on-line subscription $$ is to pay for the "members only" section of FWW.com Knots is free, but you do have to register (which at one time, you did not).
My grammar and sentence structure are really taking a nosedive. Yep, I'm p*ssed.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl,
This site is free?!?
Then what did Taunton take my money for?
I pay about $35 a year for access to this site - and when I first came here I was asked to pay. Which I did - gladly - I get my money's worth and then some.
BUT - This is like cable TV, which promised no ads, since the subscriber already paid for the service. Now of course, there are as many ads on cable as on broadcast.
Grumble, grumble, how about a page of links/ads for the woodworking that would generate income for taunton and organize my favorites - that would be a win - win I think. In fact, do it even if the thread ads dont go away.
Ah well, Compuserve is gone, and so is the community of online souls. This was nice while it lasted, but Mammon has another disciple and we are all the poorer for it.
Mike
I hope things haven't changed, but I think this is the way it works: Knots (this forum) and The Classifieds are free, but you have to register. The paid subscription gives you access to all the articles -- Tool Guide, Skills & Techniques, etc. (the dark blue tabs up at the top). I think "Ask the Experts" is a paid thing too. I've never looked at "Letters" or "Q&A" but I'm sure they're paid too.
If you subscribe to the magazine, the on-line subscription cost is less. I've found it well worth the price. However, the incredible awkwardness of the search engine can make it extremely frustrating to deal with sometimes.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You would think that they would fix the search engine first before adding this BS. I was looking for a video by Mark Spaguolo did the search and the results came up at 4oo some odd hits. AMAZING!!!!!!
I tried a similar search awhile back, and when I added a search term that definitely should have narrowed the search, it nearly doubled the hits! Ridiculous.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"I personally hate pop-up ads or anything that is jarring and requires me to fight to get to the content, so you won't see any of that junk here. " As far as I'm concerned, these ads fall into the same category by being right in the dam*$ed middle of a thread. Obnoxious and intrusive.
Although I haven't recently browsed other forums, except the low-tech WWA, back when I did, I don't recall seeing any other forum that had ads in the threads. Why would Taunton "go there"?? It is beyond the pale (again, AFAIC). I would rather (a) be forced to log in on a page that contains ads or (b) have a less expensive formal (i.e., dump Prospero) than have these jarring ad boxes in front of me in every thread.
I know that this forum is free but based on the feedback that I have seen today there are A LOT OF US that would love to see the ads leave. There are other threads that this has come up on.
Greg
When I first saw them this AM, I said to myself, "That's too bad..."
So I don't care for them, but in the intervening hours I've pretty much learned to bleep by them without a second thought. Even smack between two posts that I am reading, so no problem.
I must have seen a dozen or more by now and cannot honestly remember a single one. Hardly effective advertising, but hey, if it keeps the lights on and you and the FWW staff living in the manner that you've become accustomed to, I can live with it.
David C.
Since you're likely to hear more from those who are angered by the ads than those who are not (human nature there), I'll step up and say that the ads don't bug me in their current placement.
I am normally very annoyed by ads on the internet, especially ads that move in any way (including any flashing or animation), noticably slow down the loading of the page, make the site harder to use, or have content that offend me. The ads I have seen have done none of the above.
The current placement makes the ads hard to ignore but I like the fact they scroll off the page as I read through a thread (instead of taking up fixed real estate on the page).
In short, I'd prefer to see no ads at all in Knots, but this is about as unobtrusive as they get. If you take even one tiny step beyond this, though, and violate any of the issues I've mentioned above, I'm outa here.
Mike
they really don't bother me.... yesterday when i first saw them i was taken back and noticed them but now i just scroll through it..... not a big deal
The distinction between ads for medicines, super grass seeds etc, and the "Free Sewing Patterns" that was below your post is lost on me. They seem to have equal (non) relevance to a woodworking site
Generally I tune out ads, but I do find the placement intrusive.
-Randy
Anatole, on my browser (Firefox) I get one GoodleAd between the 1st and 2nd item in a thread. On this thread it is for sewing patterns (which is probably better than caskets :-). The ad does not in any way distract me or take away from my enjoyment of your site.
I subscribe also to the "for fee" portion of the site and find the whole package to be useful and of great value.
/ Al
1 ad in a thread taking up 1/2-3/4". How horrendous. It's the end of civilization!
I'm going to start a class action lawsuit!
C'mon guys, get real. You spent more time complaining thatn the nanosecond it takes you to scroll past it.
Taunton's is a business. If those tiny ads help them to continue to provide the best in Fine Woodworking content, then so be it.
There are other magazines that do not have any ads. I've seen their content. I think I'll stay here.
Anatole,
It's nice to know you hate pop-up ads too. They remind me of driving in lower Manhattan where at every stop light out come the boys with the spray bottles to clean the windshields...nothing wrong with that either.
It's also not clear to me how this compliments your business model. You have all worked hard to establish credibility with the woodworking community and provide leadership in some cases. Do you trade this all away to the first A-hole that comes along waving a few bucks in your face. What happens if its not happening for the casket company does your revenue go away with your credibility?
As Ben Franklin (no relation to the glue people) used to say...ideas are easy, common sence you have to work at...
I'm certainly not going to go away because of pop-up ads, I hope it doesn't impact others. Every time I log on here and see the ads I'll be reminded that some pimpled face geek thinks this is the best way to sell men: nag them to death, again and again and again. ...but guess who I'll be blaming...
I would say, as long as these small adds are helping to better the site and the magazine in some way, then so be it.
I can see how extra money could allow for better content, etc.
I hope that at least some of this money IS going back into the publication.
My feelings... no bright colors, animations, or stupid stuff and i think i can keep on enjoying knots.
I already pay to use knots. If you are going to sell ads, give us our subscription money back and make it free. Otherwise you are double dipping.
"We have not had a robust web advertising program so far because we have focused on building the site and developing new content. Matt Berger and the rest of the staff have done a great job. Now it's time to get the ad program going."
Oh I see how it works!
The next project I do I'll wait until after the install and then say to the client," Now that I've worked hard to supply you with a quality product and now that you have taken it into your possession, I have to get the ad program going. I know you won't mind if I screw a couple of my buddies business cards to the top of this lovely sideboard."
" Its just another service I provide to make your ride through the fields of galloping consumption a little more enjoyable."
"And oh yeah. I've hung a signboard on your front lawn for "Biff's Multipurpose Sheep-dip and Hair Tonic", its quite small and unobtrusive. No one really notices it anyways!"
"Remember. Helping me help others puts your money in my pocket!"
"Tra-la-la. I always feel so refreshed after a gentle dusting of advertising!"
I'd say to hell with the new content and work on fixing the search so we can make use of the great stuff that is already here. Once all the existing content is easily usable then add more. I used to pay to subscribe to the extra features but when renewal time came around I did not re-up mainly because I did not appreciate being accused of acts I had not committed. The apology I received did not mean spit after the second occurence. There is also the matter of the apparently two faced e-mails. I for one value integrity in those who I do business with. I am sure the voice of one admittedly opinionated and sometimes caustic contributor does not carry much weight, but for what it's worth there it is. It was not much effort to block the ads but you might consider I would have gladly read your advertising had you put the ads on the site yourself rather than let an entity with a horrendous privacy record mine our posts for heuristicly targeted advertising.
Sincerely
dgreen
------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
I'am not one who appreciates bombardment with ads, and I actually didn't notice the small inserts till they were mentioned. And curiosity got this cats interest, and I clicked away. The second site perked an interest in an item which I am going to propose to our purchasing dept. and catalog sales. An item which no other catalog, WW chain or BORG carries, at least not that I've seen.
I think as the ads are screened, we can learn to appreciate their content. I already have one bookmarked. Sorry Forestgirl.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I second what Mike Holden says. The ads on a site on which I already pay a subscription offend me.
Mike D
Speaking of offended... how does Taunton Press feel about Google "borrowing" their name for use in their ads? I followed this link and it had nothing to do with Taunton.
Here's another one. Did'ja know Taunton sells cars now! Sure, they're backed by Taunton's good name! What BS, completely mis-leading.
The Adblock Plus along with Kidderville Acres' subscription list he posted has cured the problem. No more Haverty's ads. No ads at all.
Boss,
Took your advice from a few months ago and you were/are right on the money. Now I got an issue with a Stanley spokeshave. It's got the chatters and is driving me crazy.
But that's not a drive for me, just a short walk.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Glad it worked. What was it I spouted off about that day?
Boss,
In a nutshell you told me to quit messing around and get back to work in the shop. I'll never forget those words of wisdom and you were right on!
Best ragards,
P.S. Hey I made my first cabriole leg recently. Did a bunch of reading and then thought of what you said to me, quit messing about and get to it. You were right, I CAN do it.
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 7/1/2007 8:48 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Sounds good. It's not woodworking unless you're woodworking.
Bob, the problem with woodworking is that it requires tools. The tools become a detour from which a lot of people never return.
Boss,
It's a paradox isn't it?
Not to worry about me as I would much rather be making pieces instead of constantly fettling tools. I will freely admit there is much satisfaction gained when you take that first cut with a freshly fettled plane; kinda like a pat on the back so to speak.
But that's nothing like the feeling I get when those same tools allow me to create a piece that the customer, in my case wife, says, "Wow, that's beautiful".
You see I just started down the slippery slope and working with hand tools in general so I have a lot of catching up to do. But as time goes by, the fettling is taking less and less of my time.
It's all good and it's all fun,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Always remember that there is almost no problem that a card scraper can't fix. Learn how to prepare and use a scraper and you give yourself the ability to keep things moving along.
BobIt seems that I, in an earlier post, suggested that you "obtain" a Brian Boggs spokeshave from L-N. Based my experience - chatter to pure plaeasure - that will eliminate your frustration.Frosty
Get a grip. Money is the why of most things. This forum needs to make its way in the world just like everybody else. I have saved a countless amount of money just by learning from other peoples mistakes. Not to mention not having to BUY with real $$$ articles from old issues that I mistakenly threw out. Or the various plans I have printed for no extra cost than the $14.95 a year. What is that 4 cents a day? These ads are no worse than the ones in the paper version. Which I remind you are targeted to woodworkers. If this helps the editors run a better site, we all benefit. If they bug you, tune them out like all of the other intrusive things that come into our lives. Get a mouse with a scroll wheel and you will hardly notice them.
This site has continued to grow and meet more of my needs since I joined. If it takes a couple of Google boxes popping up now and again to make future improvements, I'm in. Hell, I might even consider paying 5 cents a day in 2008.
I don't understand the theory that there should be no ads because we pay for membership in FWN. I pay for magazines that have advertising. Same is true for newspapers and cable TV. FWN is a great service. If these ridiculously small ads help make ends meet, I say good for you Anatole. (If however, they are paying for your Ferrari and beach house...) To be honest, I didn't even notice the ads until I read this thread. Nothing to get worked up over in my opinion.
David
Anatole,
I got a wonderful idea. Why not put the ads between EVERY THREAD and really pis* the viewers off. Just think of how much money the advertisers would pay then. Since this is a free forum how about making another forum for the paid subscribers and then have no ads.
Greg
As I read your post an ad for Taunton Volvo was visible.
Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Poster,
Firefox + AdBlocker = no ads.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I'll give it a whirl... I pay for access to the premium side anyway, plus a print subscription, plus a few books a year. Blocking the ads won't bother me much. No guilt trip here.Please read this disclaimer which is an integral part of my post: Do not copy, print, or use my posts without my express written consent. My posts are not based on fact. My posts are merely my written opinions, fiction, or satire none of which are based on fact unless I expressly state in writing that a statement is a fact by use of the word "fact." No one was intended to be harmed in the making of this post.
Anatole,
Would it be possible for one of your staff to send out a real Knots survey to find out where the population is on this issue? I've seen the surveys here before, but don't know how to start one myself. I think you'll get a pretty good response..
Something like...
Who likes the new ads?
Who can live with them as long as it supports the cause?
Who is mildly irritated by the ads?
Who is irritated enough to consider another site?
Thanks in advance,
GRW
So what's with the sewing and cross-stitch ads? Not exactly the target population, us'n's, I'd think. Too funny!
Anatole,
I'm a frequent user of this site and a subscriber. Until you mentioned it, I didn't even notice the ads ( your advertisers may not want to hear that).
I'm a capitalist, and as such I know there are no free lunches, and this site isn't any different. In fact I've wondered how it stayed "free" for so long; my modest website costs enough each month and it is nothing compared to this site.
Some have complained that since they are subscribers they should be exempt from the ads, but that's not very compelling, because if you subscribe to a magazine they have ads, and those annoying little cards that fall out, or won't let the pages lie flat.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
"I didn't even notice the ads ( your advertisers may not want to hear that)."
Oh I think that's exactly what they would like to hear.
Those nefarious bastards!
Take a closer look at the lay out of your local supermarket. Retailers pay huge money to shape the way we view the world and ultimately, their products.
MIND CONTROL! MIND CONTROL! (This is when the cameraman zooms in and out, in and out, on the horrified face of Mrs. Betty Shopper, Any town USA).
As a free thinking and aware consumer living in a capitalist economy I believe we have to exercise our brains constantly. To me that means that I have to raise my level of consciousness to meet that which is being directed at me. I listen quite selectively to the commercial radio stations and when I hear commercials that I consider stupid I turn them off. Most of them are insipid drivel and insult the intelligence of the average quadruped, but how many people continue "not listening" through this dreck? (See previous paragraph).
I was once told that the OED includes as part of its definition of insidious, " like sand". And not to overstate the case, some of the superfluous information we are exposed to is just that.
It ends up in your pockets, your crotch, your hair, your bed. Everywhere!
Please! (This is me on my knees now).
Give me just a little space where I can relax and enjoy.
Save your capitalist trumpeting for some other fight.
I read and re-read your posting, and I can't figure out if you are just kidding or serious.
Rob Millard
Rob,
My theory is that Xform is a commie-hippie who got into a time machine circa 1968 and popped out here. He just hasn't realised it yet.
Personally, I aways liked comme-hippies and I look forward to his next insight. I may have been one myself but I have forgotten 1968, apart from those flashbacks invoked by certain smells or by listening to "Alligator" by the Grateful Dead. (Or anything by The Doors).
Anyway, The Situationists had a point, so like The X man I keep a section of my wetware primed to detect any elements of The Spectacle. Do you know what? It's everywhere! (That Raoul Vaneigem might have had a point).
Lataxe, now with a different Role (but still a multiple personality).
Mr.L
Regrettably,..... your theory is flawed.
Although I did read a lot of Russian literature.
Quick now! Who can tell me which Tolstoy novel features Nekhyudov as the major character?
Bonus points people!
Alright, the sun is up! I'm out to tend to my Irises,(germanica and cristata),then off to Wal-Mart to buy some more of them "nose strips" that help me aggressively and athletically attack my pruning and later in the day to stop at the shop and plane down some wood!
I don't know why but I just gotta get me some more of them strips.
Drink Gatorade!
Whoo Hoo!!
Enthusiastically and Without any Signs of Obvious Influence, I remain, etc.
Rob.
Hoo Boy, do I hear that a lot.
Yes, by and large I was serious. I admit to hating almost all advertising, at least 95% of it. I think theres a lot of truth to the old adage" You never go wrong by aiming for the lowest common denominator".
I know Taunton doesn't need the money from this ad placement to keep their heads above water. They are doing it because they can and I find it intrusive. To my way of thinking a "little intrusive" is like a "little pregnant".
I don't believe that these ad placements are there to better serve the Knots readers. They are shoe horned into some convenient space with little or no fan fare and besides "who really cares? and what harm is it doing? and besides, its our magazine and we're running a business", and on and on. I believe they are doing their readers a disservice and are compromising the true spirit of the Forum.
FWW is easily within the top five of this genre of magazine. When a publication ,or anything else for that matter, gains that type of stature I think there are some obligations that come with it.
Mr.Berger et al have developed a wonderful forum for like-minded individuals to commune and discuss relevant topics or just have fun and spark debate between educated readers from all points on the globe. Something which was practical impossible even a decade ago. They had the opportunity to provide the supporters of their publication a pure and un-sullied 'town square" from which to influence and touch countless others and I think they dropped the ball.
xylo,I hate to be the one to break the news to you. There are a few companies aggressively running buzz marketing campaigns in woodworking forums including this one. A couple of these campaigns are, without doubt, quite successful. I'm not talking about small companies, these are good sized businesses with healthy advertising budgets.I'm amazed at people ready to go postal over small but obvious advertisements yet these same people yuk it up with stealth marketers. I find it pretty amusing that one of the people complaining the loudest about the advertising has unwittingly participated in this buzz marketing by pointing others to "tutorials," "reviews," or other buzz marketing materials on other web sites.Want to spot the stealth advertising? Do you see the same post on multiple forums? Does this person frequently hype the products of a single company? Have you ever wondered why an individual would put more effort into the presentation of "information" than their woodworking?Give me honest obvious advertising any day over stealth "word of mouth" advertising. At least with paid advertising I know the money is going to support something I use.
Mr. Williams.
I guess I'm coming across as a bit of a dupe/dope.
I am absolutely aware that many marketing ploys are floating undetected through almost every facet of our lives. No big surprise to me.
I agree entirely with what you write.
But just once in a while I like to say" Okay. That's enough of that!" and truly believe that I've made a conscious choice in the matter.
We live and adjust to the currents around us but we still have to pick a place to stand on principles. We also have to decide which hill we're going to die on.
Believe me this ain't mine. But I can still stand up and throw some dirt lumps at the other side,( until mom calls me home for dinner).
In retrospect, I think the "sea change" at Knots can be seen in the decision to make all visitors register, even if they were only browsing and not posting. Are there other woodworking forums that require registration for simply viewing the threads?
I suspect that move was aimed to being able to document the actual number of people who visit the site, as opposed to "hits." Probably discouraged a number of people, though. Oh well, none of this is a deal-killer for moi, and the brain has ceased to see the ads now.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Mr L,
I have seen Knots folk praising them planes of yurs, despite the fact they seem to be made only of wood. How much are you paying them for this buzzin? (Of course, someone else seems to be paying that demi-angel to undermine your Authority, so it all comes right in the end).
Meanwhile I must mention that I too sometimes praise the makers of various wares I have purchased. Unfortunately no one is giving me wads of cash or free tools to do so. Nor is there a rival or two paying me to complain about them other tools that I find wanting. "You would say that", you will opine, as the "paranoia strikes deep, into your soul it will creep" (Buffalo Springfield).
(NB All those Account Executives out there with a heavy advertising budget for buzzin', please send a sample cheque to me now - no promises though).
You mention, "...honest, obvious advertising..". Ha ha, very droll.
Finally, have I mentioned the etymology of "cynic". I mentioned it to The Boss once and he seemed quite grateful. :-)
Lataxe, making more of a screech than a buzz.
"...despite the fact they seem to be made only of wood..."
Yeah, odd isn't it. I can't imagine talking about things made of wood around here. It's such bad material, you know.
"...How much are you paying them for this buzzin?...
You looking for work? If I was writing a job description for a buzzer, first on the list would be the ability to stay on topic. It'd be hard to get a message across a short attention span introduces half a dozen other messages in every couple paragraphs. Oh well, I guess woodworking is too boring for some and they'd rather meander through other topics at every whim.
"...Finally, have I mentioned the etymology of "cynic"...
To tell you the truth, I don't know. About how many posts into a hijacked thread would that have been? Would that have come after muffins, and flowers? If so, you may have but I didn't see it.
I agree with your post. I have been thinking the same thing for about the last 8 months.BTW: I drove near your town in AR a few weeks ago, after a long trip out west (I crossed the Missouri nearly as many times as Lewis and Clark, I think, to give you an idea). It was the last day of the trip and I had get-home-itus and had to drive across AR and MS to get back, but I remember thinking, "I wonder if Clark and Williams has any kind of retail outlet?" Do you? Is there any kind of hardware store or anything there that sells one-offs of your planes? The (relatively few) times that you've talked about your business gave me the impression that you always had a backlog for orders. I thought Arkansas was a neat state to drive through. The most surprising place for me was Lake Village, in the southeast corner of the state. What a beautiful, resort-like town! Sailboats out on a blue lake - just beautiful. Not at all what I thought an old oxbow lake would look like (I envisioned mud, alligators, algae, impenetrable brush, and only marginal human habitation). Just goes to show you gotta get out there.Take care.
No free lunches?
This sweeping statement is sophistry, fraught with political baggage, offering an excuse for any act or policy while appearing on the surface to be true.
Do you think we could bury that phrase? That would even make the world better than removal of ads.
Let's get rid of billboards too, and let the true beauty of this country show, rather than the ugly, money-oriented view. Some communities have done it. Do you think maybe they have had to quit eating lunch?
Anatole, I wonder if members would have a problem with the ads if it were Lie-Nielsen or Phillip Marcou hand planes being advertised?? maybe they just hate sewing patterns
Mr. Burkin, I understand from some very serious people that you are a stand up guy or as some of my non-Irish friends would say " a mench" and I can't understand why you would let the head of a Mag., The marketing and bookkeeping gangs prostitute your hard won reputation with the likes of Google ads of very devious quality in the pursuit of revenue to satisfy their corporate goals and obviously their own financial rewards.
I personally will block these ads and by the way the somewhat new tactic to have one page serious topic articles, which I am sure save ad space, smacks of the style of "Norm's" magazine that none of US buy. I call those articles wood sound bites. eg. big topic, big header, no substance-ya just wasted my time and money, how clever. Pat
"...wood sound bites. eg. big topic, big header, no substance-ya just wasted my time and money, how clever." Just as bad, or worse even, is when you're reading an article on-line (from the magazine) and there's a "Read more about (whatever)", you click on it, and there's a little B&W "Reader's Tip" with some dorky looking little shop-made jig or whatever. And to think, I thought they were going to go deeper (or at least more extensively) into the subject at hand. Right!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Anatole,
I was one who posted my disappointment of the ads on the first day. Now, in retrospect, I find them quite unobtrusive: they are small, they don't scroll down with the thread, the light brown color does not 'scream' at you and they do not 'move and bob'.
I can live with them - and of course I will have to live with them. I have visited several other sites and have quickly decided not to go back. They are confusing and all the smiley faces and member photos are far more disconcerting than the ads.
Frosty
To Anatole and to all-
Not too surprised to see over 50 posts on a brand new thread for this. Just to register my vote I'll repeat some of what I said elsewhere: The ads don't bother me. It's as easy to mouse-scroll down past them as it is to mouse-scroll past any thread on this forum that wanders off onto unrelated tangents....which as this thread shows isn't an unusual occurrence.
I think this forum and the website are a wealth of information...if I have to scroll past some ads so be it. Taunton's people obviously put a lot of thought and effort in setting this website up and they maintain it well. Yeah, the search engine currently sucks. Give them time.
We don't pay to access the forum. I DO pay to access all the rest of the site. This forum often has great stuff to read and participate in, and then sometimes it's nothing more than a 'war of words' bunch of garbage. But it's free. In that spirit, I take the bad with the good. And, in case you haven't noticed, some of the people here LIKE engaging in wars of words. Some like bantering in attempts at witticisms. Some are entertaining, some are useless.....and no one will ever agree which is which.
A few ads? If it helps Taunton, Let Taunton have their ads.
charlie -- "Count your blessings....it could always be worse!"
charlie,
Don't recall seeing you in here before but I stand and applaud your post. Couldn't agree more.
Now EVERYONE, let's get back to the business at hand, Fine Woodworking.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks, Bob.... I really appreciate it. I've stayed in the background a lot but I do have a few posts out there.....and I'm very familiar with your posts.
And I agree totally....let's get back to woodworking!charlie -- "Count your blessings....it could always be worse!"
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