Replies

1. 
   ring | Jun 05, 2006 01:17pm | #1

   My shop uses Blum Tandem exclusively, and our experience has been that they are made to much higher tolerances than we could ever approach in the woodworking.  How are you installing the runners to the sides of the cabinet?  If you're getting a systematic lack of alignment ( such as the right side always too far out, or something like that) then it's surely something that can be identified and fixed.  If it's a random lack of repeatability, look at all the processes in the drawer making - from cutting all the way through to mounting - to see what could be done with jigs or dedicated drilling machines. 

   DR

1. 
   agerner | Jun 05, 2006 01:25pm | #2

   Thanks,It seems to be random, which means it is hard to find the problem.
   We attach the runners with screws.Which jigs do you use ? Home made?Thanks,Anton Gerner

1. 
   ring | Jun 05, 2006 03:15pm | #3

   Anton,

   I made a jig (actually 2, one left and one right) to mark the screw points for the slides to attach to the cabinet walls.  It is basically a T-square whose head gets held against the face frame of the cabinet, and the bottom of the long leg rests on the bottom of the case or on a spacer cut to provide any height from the bottom.  The long leg has steel nail points set into it so that once the jig is in position all you need to do is tap it with a mallet to mark the drill points.  The head can be adjusted a few centimeters so as to account for inset, rabbet, or overlay installations.  Works quite efficiently actually.  If you are having trouble picturing it I could take a photo.

   In any case, we use 2-3 chipboard screws to hold the slides in place.  After we're sure that all's well (no mistakes) we drill through the slide's holes and add several of the 5mm special screws (Euromat, I think they're called) because they allow no slippage in the future.

   In large production situations we have used the Blum drilling machine to predrill for the slides.  For most jobs we use their machine for hinges cups only (we use Clip Inserta hinges on kitchens), but it can be set up for drilling hinge baseplates, slides, etc.  The set-up time for drilling the slides is not worthwhile for many of our jobs, and the results with the jigs I made are usually fine.

   For height problems you have independent adjustment of all 4 corners of the drawer.  It's usually uneccessary, but will deal with the occasional out-of-plane drawer.

   DR

1. 
   agerner | Jun 05, 2006 03:27pm | #4

   Thanks for the info.
   I was thinking of something like that jig and would love to see a photo.I'm going back into the workshop tomorrow and I am going to find out what the problem is and will let you know.Thanks again.

1. 
   ring | Jun 05, 2006 05:34pm | #8

   I'll post a pic tomorrow.

   DR

2. 
   ring | Jun 06, 2006 08:32pm | #10

   Anton,

   here's the jig I mentioned -

   DR

   
3. 
   agerner | Jun 07, 2006 12:04am | #11

   Thanks for the pic. Looks like it would work well.By the way what do you make your drawers from? and how do you joint them?Anton

4. 
   ring | Jun 07, 2006 07:39am | #12

   Commonly our drawers are made of veneered 1/2" ply.  We use #10 biscuits to join the pieces.  On large or especially heavy applications like filing cabinets, we will add screws (with plugs) to the joints. 

   Of course some clients appreciate and are willing to pay for solid wood dovetailed drawers, but this is the exception.

   We use only the soft-closing Tandem slides, don't even offer any alternative.

   We also do a lot of kitchens with Blum metallic drawer parts, but the slide mountings are identical.

   regards,

   DR

   (you can have a look at some kitchens at http://www.touchwood.co.il)

    

2. 
   KeithNewton | Jun 05, 2006 04:25pm | #5

   Back in about 1985 I made some templates for using a plunge router to drill all of the necessary 5mm holes for hinge, shelf pin and slides for the 32mm system. These templates all have 18 mm holes which was the standard size that came with the japanese routers back then, and those holes have a small chamfer milled into both sides, so the same template dose both sides. Believe it on not, You can drill 1.5 holes per second with these things on the straight run of pin / hinge holes for the uppers.One of the greatest things about using these kind of templates, is that you can screw the slides onto the sides; laying on the bench-top before assembling the carcass. I hate having to reach back into a box to screw those back screws.However, when it come time to install the fronts to the boxes of a stack, I start with the bottom drawer-box in the carcass. I then hold the front up to it, and index it to the front, then reach over the top with a pin-nailer and shoot it with two 18 ga. nails from the inside out.I then stick the next drawer-box up on its slides, and with a 1/8" spacer on top of the first front, line up the sides, and shoot it on. When I get to the top, I use carpet tape to stick it long enough to get it open to shoot the pins from the inside.The nice thing about using these little brads, besides being fast, is that if you need to make an adjustment, is that they are small and limber enough, and the crush factor in the box, all you need to do is give it a little tap with a mallet or even the side of your fist. When you get them where you want them, just reach inside and run some screws from the inside out.I almost never use those adjustment slots in the slides

1. 
   ring | Jun 05, 2006 05:34pm | #7

   Keith,

   My preferred way of mounting drawer fronts is exactly as you describe.  There was a recent thread about using front adjusters, and while I don't often use them there have been complex assemblies when they really saved the day, because you can keep re-adjusting until everything looks right.

   My problem with mounting the slides before assembly as you say is that 90% of the time the cabinets and drawers get built and go to finishing before they are ever assembled together.  We finish the backs separately so that it's a bit easier to reach in there and mount the slides, then put the backs on.  Drawer fronts get put on just as you say.

   The idea of using the router for drilling is an interesting one, but I think I have an even better idea.  We recently bought a Mafell doweller, which works like a biscuit joiner, but drills 2 holes at a time, 64 mm apart.   There's a variety of fence and stopper settings, as well as the diameter of the hole and depth.  I've tried using it for hinge baseplate drilling and it is perfect.  I'm thinking that maybe we could jig up this drilling tool for many of the standard hardware applications.  It's a pricey tool, but I already bought it.

   Thanks for your thoughts,

   DR

2. 
   KeithNewton | Jun 06, 2006 05:26am | #9

   Hey ring, If you have a better idea, I would love to hear your results with this new tool, In case the 1.5 holes per second didn't register, that is 90 per minute. I know it is hard to impress a lot of you guys with speed now that everyone has seen how fast these CNC routers and drills can go, and I know that you can get something that will beat my speed for a couple of hundred thousand dollars, but I was only charging $200 for these templates with a carbide 5 mm brad-point drill for a 1/2" collet. Of course you would have to spend another $200 for the router.Edit: It has been 20 years ago that I had the idea for these templates and made a few of them. I think that was the first time that I tried contacting FWW about sharing one of my ideas. I don't know how I keep missing out on linking up. I don't expect to make any money off of this, but I am sure there are a lot of guys out there who would be a lot more productive if they had this.For one thing, you could almost throw your tape measure away, and still build a fine set of cabinets faster than you ever thought you could.

   Edited 6/5/2006 10:43 pm by KeithNewton

2. 
   mudman | Jun 05, 2006 05:20pm | #6

   You need to use the adjustable inset clips. When oredering the slides if you just ask for the "inset clips" you don't get the newer adjustable ones. These have a cam style adjustable stop that makes it ia cinch.

   Before they had the adjustable inset clips, I would use a wooden stop behind the face frame. If the face frame is 3/4" thick and I need a completely flush front (fully inset) then I would make the drawer front exactly the same thickness. After that you need the mount the slides far enough back so that even when the drawer is closed the closing mechanism is 1/16" to 1/8" open. This will basicly hold the drawer against the stops.

   Finally another way to do it with the old style clip is to add rubber bumbers to the plastic stop tab on the clip where it hits the slide when closed. Glueing thin pieces of rubber to that tab will space the drawer out untill it is flush with the face frame. So you should install the slides about 1/8" back.

   The tandem style slides are a PITA to figure out. For me the math was really tough, and I took calculus and statistics in college! You have to account for all the thicknesses and what not and accout for the back set the slides need to work correctly.

   All in all, it is best to just get the adjustable inset clips, which of course cost about three times the price of the normal ones.

    

   Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.