I am looking at purchasing a 15″ spiral stationary planer (G0453Z). How much material can I expect to take off per pass (max)? With a 3hp motor, will I be power limited, or be depth restricted by the cutter gullets? In other words, will the planer bog down if I am removing 1/8+” from two 6″ boards?
Also, I am considering a 8″ spiral jointer (G0490X) which comes with a 3hp motor. Shouldn’t that be plenty of power for a heavy 8″ pass? Presumably the 15″ planer, being nearly twice the width, would require twice the power. I am concerned with only 3hp on the planer.
Replies
Grizzly lists the max depth of cut at 1/8 inch for the planer.
As it has a one piece infeed roller you would only want to feed one piece at a time.
First pass would have to be single boards, but after I would send multiple through at the same time. Can somebody comment on 3hp 15" taking off 1/8" at full width?
At the slower feed setting, 3 horsepower will be adequate for 1/8 inch cuts in all but the hardest tropical woods . As already noted, you will need a high capacity dust collector to pull the chips away or you will have problems with the surface quality. The design of the machine is such that I doubt if it would hold up to the stresses created by a 5 horse motor if you were feeding it so hard that you needed the 5 horse just to make the cut.John White
Sounds like the answer for me is 3hp should be plenty. Thanks to all who contributed. I look forward to seeing the improvement over my current 12" planer.
Ya, it'll do it. Might groan when the board first connects with the knives, but it'll do it. Typically, it's tough to find a 15" with more than 3HP.
Even if you could take off 1/4 inch, you wouldn't because the tear-out would be awful. I use the Grizzly 20" planer with a 5 HP motor and STANDARD cutter-head. The beast will take a full-width cut in the hardest of woods without slowing down. BUT.... if you look at the specs, it too has 1/8" listed as maximum depth of cut. Both of these machines have a depth-limiting configuration that will limit you to a maximum 1/8" cut. You WILL need a good dust/chip collecting system as both of these machines will produce lots of chips. DO NOT forget to wear hearing protectors as these machines are noisy.
SawdustSteve
Nathan
3 hp will work but if you are into hogging wood off in a single pass I'd use the 20 Incher with the 5 hp.. Mine has never bogged down on anything I can shove into it..
I don't think there is a planar out there within normal financial means that is rated nor should be for more then 1/8 per pass, tear-out would be terrible.
Why don't you get the Grizzly combo?? That way your jointer and planer will be the same size.Plus it's 5 hp. Personally I don't need a planer any wider than the jointer because my glue ups are perfect and already planed to size.
http://grizzly.com/products/12-Jointer-Planer-w-Spiral-Cutterhead/G0634
I looked at it, but think there are too many compromises (albeit, most of which could be worked around). For the $$$ I'll get industrial models (8" and 15"). May upgrade to spiral cutters later.Compromises:Mobility: No built-in casters
Changeover time (inherent with combo units)Jointing:
Shorter infeed tables, not parallel designPlaning:
narrow width (couldn't plane 2x 6"+ boards at same time)
Lack of pressure bar / chip breaker (I think)
No bottom rollers to reduce drag on table
No infeed/outfeed tables (read snipe).
Single speed feed rate?
As a one who has been repairing and adjusting machines I have to disagree with your compromises.
Bed rollers are entirely over rated and the biggest cause of snipe. I typically set bed rolls at .003" at the most. Waxing the beds is your best bet on drag. When I used to go on the road to service planer feed problems half the time I just had to wax the bed. You should have seen the faces on the folks when I showed them all the adjustemnts were on spec.
Infeed outfeed tables are more snipe helping on lunch box planers. Every planer I adjust is free from snipe...bedrolls!!!!
Mobile bases are available.
So it's not a pararllelogram jointer. What advantage do you feel a parallelogram jointer is going to give you. I know the answer.
It's clone of a standard for over 50 years design. Change over is fast and it wouldn't hurt to be more efficient in your work habits anyway.
The single speed will be fine with the helical cutter or even the regular head. Buy the helical heads now. The saying is stepping over dollars to pick up pennies. You haven't crunched the numbers on the cost saving considering the cost of sharpening knives and time lost for changing. You could easily save a few hundred dollars so bite the bullet and get the helical heads.
Actually you don't even need the helical heads on the jointer. I don't know why you need to take an 1/8" off on the jointer. Most shops skip face for a flat reference point and do the rest on the planer. You must be a self taught kinda guy. Not a bad thing but there's so many ways of doing things in wood that once people adopt a way they have a hard time changing. You could also opt for the Esta quick change knives on the jointer. Most people struggle with knife changing because they don't do it enough to get efficient at it or would prefer to just work the wood and not deal with the machinery. That why folks call me to wotk on their machine.
Edited 2/27/2008 9:34 am ET by RickL
Hi Rick, I've been reviewing the g0634 and am very interested in your comments to date. One major concern is the depth of the machine, with the fence shaft sticking out the back. Can't exactly put it up against a wall. I am self-taught working out of my basement. I am growing a kitchen cabinet side business (basically my evenings). I typically do a kitchen in 3-4 weeks at 3 hours per night (50 to 70 hrs), from board to finished door / cabinet. I am very interested in efficiency, which is one of the main driving factors for upgrading my 6" jointer and lunchbox planer. I believe in pushing the machine until the job is done - so I need a motor that can keep up.Already I have seen improvements by jointing and planing full-length boards, then cutting into pieces. I will probably try the cauls on my next batch of doors (instead of biscuits). I have upgraded to a PC 4x24 belt sander and 6" orbital, which has realized a reduction in sanding time. I may get a stroke sander at a later date.How do you edge sand your doors? Also, do you really skip flattening (face jointing) your stock? What about twisted boards - do you separate those out first?
Skip facing is where you flatten out a board on jointer. You don't have to get all the saw marks off one face before you get it to the planer. The basic premise is to get a flat surface that can be run on the planer. Most rough wood comes in about 1"so taking 1/8" facig on the jointer and planing 1/8" isn't realistic. Really twisted board will face better at a shorter length. There's lots of variables and no one answer will work. Knowing when to change tactics is the key.
I would have suggested a Makita belt sander and sanding Frame as a simple step up. SANDING FRAME!!! as Nathan rolls his eyes!!! What's that????
G0634...I beleive it's the clone of a Minimax. I have to disagree on pretty much all your ideas of compromises on this machine and combos in general. I don't beleive you crunched the numbers on the sharpening factors. If you crunch the numbers list them in a post so we can verify the steps. I'm tyring to get you to figure out and do the cost analyis.
Get and edge sander not a 6 x 68 belt sander. Grizzly has edge sanders.
Thanks for the tip on skip facing. That would certainly save the knives on the jointer. I got the 4x24 to avoid a sanding frame on a narrower sander. Based on my experience with a 3x21 and 4x24, I highly recommended the PC 4x24. Would the edge sander scratch the tops of the rails, maybe use a higher grit and have the osculating type?
You don't need the oscillating type if you tip the fence and slide the doorsback and forth. Poor mans oscillating edge sander. You can't tell the difference in the results.
http://www.makita.com/menu.php?pg=accessory_tbl&tag=acc_sander_belt&cat_tag=176&tbl=3&f= Sanding frame or Shoe
Nathan, you always say something that makes me wonder if you are talking about the same thing. Most manufacturers don't make sanding frames. I guess there are some availalbe for the narrower sanders. Most folks don't even know about them. If you do that's good. They really do work well.
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/use-a-belt-sander-frame.aspx?nterms=89440
Edited 2/27/2008 3:07 pm ET by RickL
I know what a sanding frame is Rick, it was what I was were referring to. After doing some research I concluded that the wider 4" belt sander would give similar results to using a frame on a narrow 3" sander. I prefer also having the flexibility of applying more pressure in certain areas if needed (in the case of a concave panel). As a side note: I now have no problems with gouging as I did on the 3". The 4" PC is also more balanced.
Do you have any thoughts on how the Grizzly compares to the other combo machines out there? I saw a review of combo machines, I think it was in FWW a while ago, but I don't think the Grizzly machine was available at the time.
Chris
It's too new a model. I do know that Grizzly stripped down one of the existing combos and used it as a guide. Probably a Minimax, Felder, or one of the others. Combos have been around in Europe for at least 50 years so it's old technology.
The Grizzly is pretty much a carbon copy of the MiniMax FS30 Smart even down to the poke through decals that cover the lifting holes.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
I knew it was one of those. Grizzly himself mentioned how they copied an existing competitor. Sort of raised the hackles on one of the forums on ethics. I'm sure many manufacturers buy the competitions machines and strip them down to see how they did it.
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