Replies

1. 
   bones | May 21, 2004 05:06am | #1

   I can let you know shortly if it is worth it. Mine is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. I ordered it Saturday.  It was a little over 900 by the time I paid shipping and bought a mobile base for it. I'll post my thread link at the bottom and you can see I asked the same questions. The final decision was not easy. I finally went with the 17HD. I will mention that the general consensus was chuck the blade that comes with it because it's junk. The timberwolf blades came highly recommended and have had good reviews. They also have a sale going that if you buy 3 blades you get a 4th free. Good luck on your decision, I know I labored over mine. My electrician is going to put my 220 in the shop next week while I travel on business. I'll post a final note and let you know how the thing shapes up.  If you can wait that is.

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages/?msg=17846.1

2. 
   BG | May 21, 2004 01:52pm | #2

   Joelc,

   Boy, do your questions sound the same as the questions I was asking myself until this past January...a 14 or 16,17,19...cast iron or aluminum wheels....Grizzly, Jet, MinMax...maybe a Grizzly that is ISO made....I think I made a good decision,  only time will tell for sure.

   Like you, I'm a hobbiest and want value not only in price but in space consumed in my tiny shop.  I looked at all the 14" machines and the 16,18 Jet...could not see the Grizzly machine ..did see the MinMax at the WWshow.  The difference between the the MinMax, and I suspect the Laguna, and the Jet of similar size is like day and night...or like a cabinet saw as compared with a contractor saw....the MinMax, Laguna are in a class by themselves...Grizzly may be there too but I have not seen one live. The power, the smoothness, the construction..the MinMax is quite a machine..I'm sure it's terriffic resawing veneers and the like.

   Right now I don't do veneering...I don't buy 12" wide stock...my rough lumber runs in the 6-8" wide range. I decided to buy the 14" for now for two reasons:  first, the price was right and it met my current needs, and , second, most people here have 14" machines and they seem fairly happy with them...so am I that different then they? Even the people with the larger machines may also own a 14" for curves, etc.

   Perhaps I would have bought a big Grizzly but I never saw any reviews on here for the machines.  Let's hope Bones can fill that gap...
1. 
   MarkRoderick | May 21, 2004 02:48pm | #3

   I'm going through the same decision since the wheels on my old Jet 14" seems to have become warped.

   The MiniMax 16" is a great machine, but very expensive. I think the Bridgewood is just as good for a little less (it was one of the top picks in FWW), and it's close to me so the shipping would be much less. The Grizzly is much less inexpensive than either of them. I wish I had some way of knowing whether this is a good Grizzly product or a bad Grizzly product.

2. 
   bones | May 21, 2004 04:01pm | #4

   I'll let you know for sure soon.  One thing I also did was contact the manufacturer of Timberwolf blades. They have a very good reputation and excellent reviews. I spoke with a technical services rep and asked if he, in his daily dealings with lots of customers, had a lot of complaints about the Grizzly BS. He said that years ago (he did not quantify) there were problems with the BS (quality). He has been impressed with the change at Grizzly. He said the modern BS is a very good product.  He did qualify that it is not in the same league as a Laguna or MM, but for the hobbyist it is a very good option.  By the way, if their blades are as good as customer support at Suff Machinery, they will be fantastic. If you do visit their site they do have a sale going buy three blades and get a 4th free. Just though I would pass that info along. 

1. 
   joelc | May 21, 2004 08:03pm | #5

   Hey BG,

   I'm in the exact opposite situation.  I've seen the Grizzly but haven't seen the MM or Laguna in person.  From my perspective, the Grizzly compared well to the General International - I wouldn't be surprised if they were sister machines.  The only real difference was that the General had a heavier wheel.  The Grizzly wheel seemed light (especially compared to the heavy wheel in the 18HD model), but I'm not an expert and couldn't conclude whether it would be a problem or not.  Living in Canada, our choices are quite limited.  I was really put off by the local dealer trying to convince me that there isn't much of a mark up on tools, yet they had the gaul to list the General International Machine at $1,500 cdn (i.e. $1,070 US) while a comparable machine an hour south is listed at $750. 

   I'm happy to drive an hour south to save a few hundred bucks (in fact we were at Grizzly last weekend for their annual Tent Sale) but I'm also willing to pay more for an mm or Laguna if I'm convinced the quality is that much better for a hobbiest like me.  Did you end up going the Laguna route?

1. 
   BG | May 22, 2004 02:01am | #6

   Joelc,

   Heck no....I did not go the Laguna route.  I was seriously considering the 18" grizzly, think its the G0506....with cast iron wheels and ISO built it seemed like it would work just fine.

   The first week in January there was a Delta Sale on top of a Rockler sale and I picked up a China built Delta for $410 out the door.  Normally this saw is on sale for about $550 and I figured I could turn around and sell it without a loss if I did not like it.  So far its doing very well.  But, I still think about the Grizzly.... 

3. 
   DennisS | May 22, 2004 08:52am | #7

   Joel -

   I started to post a long involved missive about my recent drill press purchase from Grizzley but decided not to. The gist of it was that the drill press I bought wasn't even half the machine my old floor model Craftsman is. But, and this is a very big "But", the Grizzley was a considerably cheaper investment.

   Does it get the job done? Heck yes. But there are things like the depth stop (sheet metal as opposed to a stop on the cast iron headstock on the Craftsman); Smoothness of the quill travel - sounds and feels very rough; so on and so forth.

   The point? - One gets what one pays for. I know it, I knew it, and I can't and won't berate Grizzley just because I bought one of their tools. I've used it for about a week now. There's little runout, plenty of power to do what I need done, ... in short, it serves my purpose. But I have what I consider a better drill press for doing metal working projects in the Craftsman. The Grizzley is just adequate for woodworking, in my opinion.

   Will the Grizzley band saw suit your needs? My personal feeling is no. Perhaps that's not fair since I've never used one but based on my experience thus far, either of the saws you've been considering will give you more room to grow into. And that's only based on opinions I've seen offered here.

   I feel Grizzley offers a path for many people to enter either wood or metal working at a very affordable(comparitively speaking) price but serious work requires serious tools . I just don't think Grizzley is all that serious.

   ...........

   From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.

   Dennis

1. 
   MichaelPB | May 30, 2004 11:00pm | #19

   Dennis,

   I don't own any Grizzly products but I do much of my work with drill presses.  NOBODY makes drill presses like the old Craftsman ones for less than $1,500+.

   I would imagine it has 6" of quill travel?  Another thing you will not find anymore except on industrial machinery.  They also often have thrust bearings to deal with side load so you can use them to mill and such.  Again, only true industrial machines have those anymore.

   Don't take it out on Grizzley.  I have been looking for an old Craftsman with 6" of quill travel and I will buy one even if it is a basket case and have new bearings put in and rebuild it because I can't find the equivelent short of spending  $1,500 plus. 

   In my tiny shop, I have 3 drill presses and have another I would cram in if I could.

4. 
   bones | May 22, 2004 06:43pm | #8

   Well it's here! I received my 17" BS yesterday. I picked it up at the terminal with the help of a friend.  Central Freight was the carrier. It arrives in a crate and it is heavy. Don't expect to handle it yourself.  I realize I was taking a chance when I went with Grizzly. After doing all the research and seeking the opinions of others (a lot of them here). I decided that as a hobbyist I was willing to take a gamble. I will document the whole process and share it (for what it's worth).

    I go into this with an open mind. For those of you that do not like grizzly please just ignore my posts. For those still on the fence, my experience may lend some information that will help you make your decision. I will post several individual posts (to keep size down for dial-up users) with pictures describing my opinions of the saw.  I will start with how it was packaged and shipped. Followed by some minor problems I noticed (minor is key). I purchased the Shop Fox base and will detail that adventure. I will also include pictures of some various parts. Finally I will post some pic's of the fence and miter gauge that came with it. 

   Unfortunately, my shop will not be wired for 220 till next week, so I cannot speak to details of it's ability to cut well as of yet. I will be traveling all next week on business, but expect to spend all day next Saturday finding out how it performs. If it does great, I'll let you know. If it stinks, well I'll share that experience as well. I'm hoping the first one is the way it turns out.

1. 
   bones | May 22, 2004 06:53pm | #9

   Grizzly Crating quality

   The 17" arrived well crated. I inspected it carefully and found only a slight tear in the plastic in one location. It was at the dust chute. No paint was nicked because of the tear. Attached are some pics (1.79m) Sorry about the size, but I wanted to show the details of how Grizzly ships it product. The saw was attached to the crate with lag bolts with nylon washers to protect the paint. There is also a divider in the middle of the crate just above the top to help support the middle. Very Well packaged. I was impressed.

   
2. 
   bones | May 22, 2004 07:01pm | #10

   Grizzly 17" problems

   There were a few problems I encountered. Some of the bolts had surface rust on them (3). A quick rub of a WD-40 soaked rag and the problem was fixed. The paint is a powdercoat. I found one area the size pin head on the inside lower door, that had a chip out of the paint. It had resulted in a small rust spot. Again quickly removed. The tire on the lower wheel has a small nick in it. I't is on the very outmost side of the tire and would not impact performance, but I will be contacting Grizzly to get a replacement. 

   
3. 
   bones | May 22, 2004 07:06pm | #11

   Shop Fox base attached

   I purchased the SF HD base to go with the saw. I did not purchase directly from Grizzly. My local Woodcraft had the thing on sale so I bought it locally. I assembled it while the BS was still on the crate. After completing the assembly It was easy to tip the saw over and slide it off the crate. This was a one man job. The base is very solid. The only gripe I would have is you are locked into set spaces due to the distance between bolt holes. It left only a minor gap between saw bas and rail.  I do like the varying configurations on the wheels.

   
4. 
   bones | May 22, 2004 07:20pm | #12

   Grizzly 17" Top

   Here was my biggest fear. I had read others post problems with the top not being flat. The thing comes in a plastic bag and is coated with an awful smelling coating. I removed it with WD-40 and some elbow grease. The top does attach to stamped steel not cast iron. I don't think for my use this will be a problem. The mechanism that tilts the top seemed to work well also. The casting seemed very clean and free from defects. I placed a strait edge on the top and it appears to be very flat. I have a friend who has a machinist's edge and when I return next week I will let you know if it is truly flat. It is very heavy and was not easy to hold and attach by myself. If you can have someone to help.

   Edited 5/22/2004 12:23 pm ET by bones

   Edited 5/22/2004 12:25 pm ET by bones

   Edited 5/22/2004 9:11 pm ET by bones

   
5. 
   bones | May 22, 2004 07:32pm | #13

   Grizzly 17" various parts.

   I took lots of pic's of various parts. I will only post a few to keep the size down. If you want more drop me a E-mail.

   
6. 
   bones | May 22, 2004 07:43pm | #14

   Grizzly Fence

   The fence is secured to the front of the saw with the rear floating on a rail. It is made of aluminum. It is adjustable and I easily trued it up to the band.  It seems stout enough, but there is minor deflection. I will put a gauge on it when I return next week and let you know how much.  If I am going to be cutting green logs and using it, I would put a quick grip clam on the rear to make it solid. Otherwise, it seems very good. The miter that comes with it was respectable as well. I fully expected it to be junk, but it is not. Mind you it's not an Incra, but usable for sure. 

   Well that's it for now. I'll let you know how it cuts next week-end. My Timber wolf blades just arrived, so All I need is 200v's and I'm ready.

   Edited 5/22/2004 7:09 pm ET by bones

   
1. 
   jazzdogg | May 25, 2004 05:54am | #15

   Bones,

   Thanks for taking the time and trouble to photgraph your Grizzly exploits and share them with us.

   You might want to search the archives for posts re: free software from http://www.Irfanview.com which will enable you to significantly reduce the file sizes of the photos you post (Forest Girl is the Knots Ifranview guru). I find that it allows me to reduce photographs from around 300 KB to under 100 KB with no degredation of clarity.-Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   bones | May 25, 2004 11:32pm | #17

   I will look at that thanks. I kept the quality low as possible 256k. I know not everybody is blessed with high speed connectivity.

2. 
   BG | May 25, 2004 01:39pm | #16

   Bones,

   Thanks for all the hard work of presenting your new bandsaw....a real hollywood presentation.  Of course, just like hollywood, all the action is in the sequel...can't wait till you get your blades and power to that baby...lol

5. 
   bones | May 29, 2004 04:54am | #18

   Latest on the 17" grizzly.

   Well I made it back from Jersey today after a week on business, to a newly wired shop and after I put a plug on it (it does not come with an end on the cord), fired it up. 

   The manual that came with it had a few interesting problems. While reviewing the startup procedure, I noticed that some of the figures have arrows that are supposed to be pointing to parts of the saw. The arrows were there but the figure (picture) was blank. It was kind of funny actually. Fortunately, all the manuals are available in pdf format from the website. I had already downloaded it some time ago, and pretty much had it memorized. I also bought Lonnie Bird's "The Bandsaw Book". I had digested it while I was away this past week. I really enjoyed the book. Learned quite a lot from it. To do my first set up, I decided to use the blade that came with the saw rather than using one of my new timber wolf blades. I figured if I screwed it up learning how to set the thing up, it would not be a big loss. I followed the setup and startup procedure in the manual and it pretty much worked as advertised. I adjusted the euroguides using a dollar bill (that was suggested in the manual). I did not have a feeler gauge to space it the required .004" from the blade. The thumb screws and the hex bolt adjustments for the top guides are not difficult to set. I had to eyeball the 1/16" spacing for the bearing that sits behind the blade on the upper guard.  The lower guards are a little bit of a pain simply because the table gets in the way. I managed to get it all adjusted and the blade tensioned properly.The blade tracked perfectly with no vibration of any kind.  When I started it up, (220) the only noise I hear is the torque of the motor firing up. After it gets going you cannot hear anything. It is much more quiet than I imagined it would be.  My first cut was a 90 and it was dead on. I did some small resawing with some pine (sorry I don't have any HW scrap to test). I cut a strip off of a board 14" long that was .064"(checked with digital caliper) thick. It was uniform over the entire length. I was pretty impressed. I will get some wide boards next week and try to do some resawing with the new timberwolf blades in place. Lets see how it goes.  The saw is very well built and solid as a rock.  I'll let you know how the resaw test goes. 

1. 
   Jellyrug | May 31, 2004 04:34am | #20

   Bones,

   I knew you would not be disappointed with this machine.

   Buy one with cast iron wheels, a heavier table and trunion, as well as a better fence and pay thousands more. Don't know why one needs more than this machine?

   Remember to always release the blade tension when you don't use the saw, by simply flipping the lever on the back.

   I used mine the first time today, to cut veneer 9" wide and I'm below 1/16" inch with a Lenox carbide tip blade. No problems.

   The only fault I found on my saw, was the guide bar which houses the bottom roller discs does not line up the discs properly. The two shafts fitting in their guides don't line up properly. This becomes a bit of a problem when setting the rollers precisely, using a feeler gauge. This was either a machining fault, or the aluminum casting twisted slightly after machining. A real easy fix, suggest you check yours.

   Let me know what you get from your Timeberwolf blades, compared to the el-cheapo, that came with the machine.

   Best regards,

   Willie

1. 
   bones | May 31, 2004 04:57am | #21

   Thanks for the heads up on the lower guides. I did not have a feeler gauge, so I used the dollar bill method. I plan on going out tomorrow and buying a feeler gauge. I'll let you know how it goes. 

   I used it again this weekend with my son who is 14. He wanted to make something so bad. I let him glue up some scrap strips and he made a cutting board. He is beside himself. Before he was done, he used the bandsaw which he loved the best. He also used the tablesaw, planner, router, and various sanders. That's the most fun I've had in a long time. We made saw dust, and he learned a lot about working with equipment in a safe manner. We did a lot of safety lessons prior to any equipment being turned on.  He is definitely hooked. Tonight at bed time I could not find him in his room with the tv. I went down stairs and looked in the garage and there he sat. A piece of sand paper and his masterpiece.  That beats the heck out of playstation.