It’s becoming abundantly obvious that the Grizzly switch I bought for the Unisaw is designed for 14 gauge, not 12. If in the end I cannot force-feed the 12, how long is it OK to make the power cord if I change to 14 gauge. The motor plate amps = 12.5 or 13.5 amps, can’t remember for sure. I’m hoping for 15 feet.
TIA.
PS: Was in a hurry when writing the above. Anyone know what Delta puts on these saws when they ship them (3HP version)?? I have a sneaking suspicion it’s only 14 gauge, but a fairly short cord.
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Edited 6/14/2008 9:48 pm by forestgirl
Replies
What amperage is the switch rated for? Then how much current does the UNISAW draw?
This is more of a concern to me than your ability to force larger dia wire into the switch.
Greg
•••••••
Exo 35:30-35
The Unisaw draws, as stated in my OP, either 12.5 or 13.5 amps (can't remember which) per the motor plate. The switch will handle up to 24 amps.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Why not just pigtail 14 ga off the switch to your 12 ga line feed cord. You are then simply adding a few inches of 14 to the run of 14 between the switch and the motor.
Best!
-Jerry
Sorry, Jerry, but I'm trying to wire this "right" -- no shortcuts or jury-rigs. I don't think a pigtail would cut it. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have done basically what Nazard suggested, Jamie. I cut the 14 gauge power cord off about 1 1/2' feet after it comes off the switch toward the outlet end. Spliced in a female receptor on that end that just hangs straight down off the switch coming out. Then I use a rubber coated 12 gauge... 12 foot extension cord by plugging into that female receptor to go to the outlet.
The saw cord just drops straight to the floor.. then is connected to the male end of the extension which I run under rubber floor (about 4' of it anyway) mat to the outlet to keep from accidentally tripping on it. I sometimes (as day before yesterday) will run the saw for an hour or better without turning it off. No problems and I don't for-see any using a 12 gauge cord.
The 14 G would probably be fine as a Uni-saw doesn't pull big amps.. but anytime I have to travel over 6' to an outlet... I just like to beef it up to to insure over-heating the cord. Can't say if that is scientific but... it works for me and that's how I will continue to do it. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 6/15/2008 10:55 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge,
You took the words right out of my mouth. Hope your having a Happy Father's Day. To early to call my dad he likes to sleep in now. Never did when I was a kid. Always got me up at 6:30 AM.
FG,
Because a picture is wortha thousand words. The plug and receptical is a NEMA L6-20. And you don't have to buy any more wire.Len
"You cannot antagonize and influence at the same time. " J. S. Knox
14 gauge out.. heavy black (it must be black as that's just a bad-boy color.. :>) to the outlet. You look as if you have the exact same set-up as me down to the same outlet. Field proven and time tested.. life don't get any better than that as there is no reason to add the letters c-o-m-p-l-i-c-a-t-e to the word simple. :>)
Having a fine father's day, thank you sir. Will be heading to the shop in about 5 minutes as M&T's for front and rear face frames on a chest on chest are on the agenda. I hope to get all them and tenons out of the way by late afternoon so my son can treat me to one of those fancy eatin' joints like Sub-way or Quizno's.
The bad news is the lovely lady will insist I dress up to the occasion to go out to such a distinguished house of culinary delights. Not my cup of tea... but my duty as a husband and father as I don't won't to shame the family in public. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards to you and also wishing you the best on father's day!
Sarge..
"the Unisaw doesn't draw big amps."
That is kind of a relative statement. I once got a tinker toy set for Christmas. A friend asked me how many HP it was. I'd never heard of the term but later learned it was fractional HP. In my mind, any thing larger was big -- big amps. Some years ago, I had the opportunity to work in a faucet factory. They had several air compressors that were 150 HP each and electric blast furnaces that were big users. I got a new respect of what big amps were.
In all seriousness, I think you may be overly cautious in keeping your cords six feet or less. The branch circuit leading to it may well be forty to eighty feet. A couple extra feet probably wouldn't make all that much difference.
Without going down to look.. the Uni-saw draws around 11-12 A on memory. My branch from the main box is 34' from there to the outlet it plugs into. That line is run with 10 gauge wire. About 2' feet of 14 gauge comes straight down from the switch and plugs into a 12 gauge extension cord that is 12' feet long.
Could I have used a 14 gauge extension cord without a worry? Yes.. but I had a 12 gauge extension on hand at the time. I have several 12 gauge extension cords on hand and anytime I need to connect remote I use them instead of purchasing 14 gauge which is sufficient in most cases.That is not often as I have 2 separate 110 V lines with one running down the wall on each side of my shop. There is an outlet every 4' feet and two separate centrally located 220 V 10 gauge lines running to outlets almost center shop.
Is it being overly cautious? Most likely but I already stated there was no scientific reasoning behind why I chose to use 12 gauge beyond 6' feet. Am I a person that will over-kill even "when" I know it is not absolutely necessary? Yep.... an example follows........
I have 4 face frames sitting on my work-bench I cut yesterday. Two fronts and two rears for a chest on chest. Could I attach them with pocket hole screws.. biscuits.. etc. and feel assured they won't come apart considering they are not subjected to great stress once attached to the chest side panels.. Yes...
Do I intend to assemble them with pocket screws.. biscuits? Absolutely not as I cut 32 mortise and tenons knowing they were over-kill in reality. As joinerswork (Ray Pine) say.... it's just the way "I" do it and have always done it. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
...who is so into scientific approaches he doesn't own a cell phone and purchases all shop extension cords in 12 gauge and would have no hesitancy to use them on a table lamp.. and who is now off to run his Uni-saw with power assist from 12 gauge. It's just the way he does it!
Edited 6/18/2008 11:35 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Sarge, I think you are running a pretty good shop. The primary reason for not running too long a run is low voltage to the motor. Goodness knows, with the extra wire you have plenty of heat radiation from the wire. The larger the wire, the less resistance. Don't think you can get too large. I put in #8 for the very unlikely chance that something might be 40 amp.
I saw a picture of your mortiser. I bet it would throw a hissy if it were in the same room as pocket screws or biscuits. It is standing there like a raring stallion.
That little mortiser weighs in at 750 lbs. Tink... so I don't think pocket screws or biscuits can fight in that weight class. I got a real deal on it I couldn't refuse. I love the clamp as it can serve in a dual role as a torture device in the event teen-agers show up. ha.. ha....
Have a good day in West by Golly, sir...
Sarge..
Sarge,
12 guage is always good. Esp with 00 buck in a 3" shell. :-0 That's the way I've always done it...
Ray
Edit, Sounds like you espouse the philosophy of a fellow I used to work with: The mortiser, the merrier.
Edited 6/19/2008 10:14 am ET by joinerswork
Edit, "Sounds like you espouse the philosophy of a fellow I used to work with: The mortiser, the merrier".... Ray
*****
I had a Shopfox which worked fine and I hand-cut large.. 4" deep one's for work-bench legs as I usually build one every summer for friends or to sell. But.. Curt Wilke had one of his Industrial floor models left in stock someone had won on an E-bay store but kept hedging on paying when he was liquidating. He gave me a call to ask as I had always wanted a PM floor but couldn't justify a new one. I looked for two years for a used but anyone that has one just isn't going to get rid of it.
The Bridgewood is the same as the Grizzly 5418 (?) Industrial at $2200 with the exception it tilts 45* and the table will drop lower allowing up to 20" stock to be mortised. Very long table movement front to rear and side to side with monster clamp and industrial gears.
I called a friend that owns a custom door shop here and he offered me $1100 sight un-seen thinking it was used and not new. I called Curt back and told him to put it on a freight carrier ASAP. I don't regret that as makes mortising a piece of cake. I cut 32 mortises Monday in about 30 minutes. It took longer to mark them with a cutting and mortise gauge.
$800 was a deal I couldn't refuse... and once it has served that function for me I can't over-look the fact it has those large chrome steering wheels. I intend at that point to do some modification and race that puppy in the "Daytona 500" someday so... if you see a green thing running around on that track with several chrome steering wheels.... it be me! ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge,
Just because I can.
I hooked up my amp meter to my Grizzly 1023S. Start up 12 to 13 amps. No load 8 amps. I cut a piece of plywood that was laying around and it still pulled 8 amps. A piece of cherry still didn't pull any more.
BTW. I was looking at your pictures in a later post and at first your tablesaw insert looked like a happy face.Len
"You cannot antagonize and influence at the same time. " J. S. Knox
That's about what I expected, Len. Kind of like getting a vehicle up to speed. The engine will in-hale quite a bit of gas getting the mass rolling going up through the gears. But once it is moving that amount is reduced significantly as all is required is just enough to keep RPM's up.
Stopping and starting... $4.00 a gallon... please. After all... they have to make a "little" profit at the oil companies to stay afloat. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Here's a pictorial of over-kill, BTW. Forgot to attach. And it would have taken very little time to attach all four face frames with screws or biscuits in lieu of 32 mortice and tenons.....
But then again... Michaelangelo took 4 years painting the cieling of the Cistine Chapel. He could have bumped it out in about 15 minutes with a roller. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Sarge..
You're fine using 14 gauge x 15 foot cord for a 13.5 amp load. If I still lived in Kitsap County I'd hook it up for ya!
Bill
Thanks for the thought, Bill. Hope you're enjoying Oregon in your retirement!
With the diagram and the type of internal hook-ups they provide, this won't be hard to wire if I can get the right size cord and fasteners (the U-shaped ones -- spade?). But the 12-gauge ($33 worth!, non-returnable) is proving extremely difficult to feed through the fittings, and the "spade" that fits the wire doesn't fit the spot it's supposed to go to.
Sorry for the nonsensical terms, electric is not my strong-suit. :-(forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
As polarseal said, you should be fine using 14 gage wire with a 12.5/13.5 load. A general rule use 14 gage for 15 amp load, 12 for 20 amps, 10 for 30 etc,. 15 foot is not that long of a run, if it were 50 or 100 foot long and you were consistantly drawing the full load, the wire could heat up. If you can use ring terminals...they are captured and won't 'slip out'. If you're still concerned, you can double up the wire (if possible) for a greater load rating...we do it with robots as the smaller diameter wire/strands are more flexible and are less prone to breakage.
Hope this helps.
Edited 6/15/2008 6:54 am ET by Roboguy
A couple of responses included fear of the wire heating up the longer the cord is. I don't believe this to be true. A 14 gauge cord is rated to carry 15 amps regardless of length. The problem is voltage drop at longer lengths. The loss of voltage is the result of the wire having ohmic resistance (ohms per foot for a given gauge) which is dissipated as heat. Twice the length then twice the heat generated dissipated over twice the distance. Also, ambient conditions ie. temperature of the environment can play a factor. Ampacity has to be derated at higher ambient temperature.
"A 14 gauge cord is rated to carry 15 amps regardless of length." It's obvious from all my post above that I'm a novice when it comes to electrical matters, but I suspect you'll take some flak for that statement. It's too simplistic. Based on that statement a clueless reader might pull out a 200' extension cord arrangement to run his/her 13 amp table saw on the job site. And fry the motor in the process.
Whether the cord would overheat to the point of danger, I don't know. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
An exception to this could be if someone, because the cord was to long, wound it up in a coil. The heat would then be confined in a space and could give a problem. I have a friend, whose wife had some extra cord, wound it up the cord and stuck it into the electric baseboard heater. My friend caught it in time. Also, if an electric motor is starved for voltage it will draw more current and so goes the vicious cycle.
Edited 6/21/2008 10:54 pm ET by Tinkerer3
"Also, if an electric motor is starved for voltage it will draw more current and so goes the vicious cycle" This is the part that gets my attention would that not heat up the cord?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl...don't fret over the 14 gauge 15' cord. It's such a short length that the difference between 12 and 14 is negligible. In simple terms, here are the calculations to consider:
The resistance per foot of 12 gauge is 0.00187 ohms, and for 14 gauge, it's 0.00297 ohms. So, over a 15' span (which is 28' of wire altogether), you'll have 0.089 ohms for the 14 gauge and 0.056 ohms for the 12 gauge.
Assume your saw is drawing 13.5 amps (which is probably just a peak). In rough numbers, your fifteen foot 14 gauge will drop about 1.2volts and if your cord is 12 gauge, it will drop about 0.8 volts. So, you're talking about a difference of 0.4 volts! You can be sure that your motor is designed to handle this miniscule difference. And, the wire will only be carrying an additonal 4 watts, which will generate no heat.
Think of it another way...15' of 12 gauge has as much resistance as 24' of 12 gauge, and nobody would think twice about running 24' of 12 gauge.
Creating the 12-to-14 plug that you're considering will likely cause a voltage drop of at least a half volt anyway, plus it costs more and is one more thing to go wrong.
Correction...a 15' cord is 30' of wire altogether, not 28.
Hey, SM, thanks for the detailed computations! I finished putting everything together this morning, had to re-tap a hole and replace some missing screws. I guess I'm ahead of the game, because I've got 15' of 12 gauge as an extension cord, and a 2.5' 14 gauge pigtail comiing off the saw. The 14 gauge that goes from the switch to the motor seems a little long, but I left it. Wanna cut wood!
How much voltage is lost at the male/female junction, and where the plug goes into the wall? Insignificant again, I hope.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yes, it's insignificant. Voltage drop could range from virtually zero to perhaps a volt if you have a poor connection. You'll be fine with what you have. Start sawin'!
"Start sawin'!" Yep, today! I fired it up yesterday, wow...smooth and quiet. The shop has been a disaster since the electrical was done (drag everything outside, then back in); add a saw twice as large as the old one = what a mess. A little better after some straightening yesterday.
Have to make a new step to replace the one I dismantled with the tractor harrow last week. That'll initiate the ol' beast.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Is the new "baby" spitting saw-dust out every crack and crevice on the saw as mine did the first time I ripped stock? It didn't do that on day two as I did a few little back-yard modifications as I prefer my main diet to be other than saw-dust! ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
BTW... if you decide to plug up all the leaks in the dyke... it requires no electrical knowledge.. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
Haven't set wood to blade yet, gotta get the splitter lined up better. Four horses to work today, we'll see how much energy I have left tonight!
The guy I bought it from had a double DC arrangement, I think it worked pretty well, but mine of course is just the 1.5HP Jet. I have the saw very close to the DC though. I noticed all those holes -- what the heck are they for?
Also, the cord from the motor to the switch is pretty long. Is there a reason? maybe so the weight will keep it safely on the floor of the cabinet? My back was already killing me from stooping under there struggling to get the cover back on the junction box of the motor, so wasn't interested in spending time to shorten the cord and re-attach!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Don't ask me about all the holes as I just faced reality head on and fixed them.. especially the ones you see near the top of the base cabinet just underneath the table itself. But... you will know where they all are the first time you turn it on and saw. The saw will point out (spew would be a better choice of word here) the holes and all you have to do is just brush your-self off good afterwards...
Not a good idea to be wearing a wedding or fashionalbe cock-tail dress when you do that, BTW. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
I remember when you bought this saw -- about the same time I bought my SteelCity. I just recently finished getting mine all installed and "tricked out". I'll post some pics in a separate post. Isn't it great to get a big new piece of equipment like this fired up and working?
Cool! Glad I'm not the only one who takes forever getting stuff like this done. It's been a struggle, too much going on with horse stuff (has taken over my life pretty much), the shop was a jumbled up mess for a long time (still is, slightly better today), and lost 2 weeks to the meningitis.
At least it's warm, somewhat, even hot occasionally, so don't have to fire up the pellet stove and let it run for an hour before going out there!
Have fun with the Steel City, really hope it does a great job for you!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yes, those steps wear out and need replacing ever so often. Never heard of dismantling with a harrow though. Is that common practise?
"Also, if an electric motor is starved for voltage it will draw more current and so goes the vicious cycle."
That's not generally true for motors, except "smart" ones like electronically-commutated motors. A conventional motor running at near maximum load is pretty close to a purely resistive load, meaning that the current draw is approximately directly proportional to the voltage. Like a light bulb, if the voltage goes down, so does the current.
It is very much the case for all of the newfangled electronics that we now have. You can usually tell by looking at the nameplate--if it's something that's rated to run over a very wide input voltage range (e.g., my laptop's AC adapter is rated to run from 100-240V), chances are that it contains a switching power supply, which compensates for low voltage by increasing the current draw.
-Steve
Okay, so I'm misinformed. Thanks. Was hoping someone well informed would step in.
I'm new to this discussion, but it sounds like the problem is more with the connectors than the gauge of the wire. Some of these critters can be pretty proprietary.
Yeah, with Len's and others' help I now understand that both ends of those connectors come in different sizes. The manufacturer unfortunately designed for a size that is very uncommon in normal retail outlets.
I'm sure I'll get over it <grin>. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another option is to get pretty generic brass connectors that are designed for situations like yours. My 86 year old Dad (a real "do-it-all" type of guy) discovered many years ago that the standard 220v connectors on electric dryers would fail after a few years (usually the "board"on which they were mounted would begin to disintegrate), so he began using the brass connectors and wrapping them with electricians tape for insulation. You use one connector for each wire hookup with the brass screw(s) holding the wires securely for a very long time.
Anyway, I imagine that you have everything up and running by now,right?
"I imagine that you have everything up and running by now,right?" Wellllll, not quite. Lost yesterday to the horses, worked on the switch tonight, after another long day with the hoofers. Found I didn't have enough blue crimpy things, so will get more tomorrow afternoon.
Where these wires attach, there's no extra room to accomodate electrical tape insulation. We're talking very tiny clearances, made for crimpy spade things. ;-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I have been reading about your problems with the connectors for the Unisaw switch being too wide to fit in the space available. I used to work on motorcycle electronics (Honda Gold Wings) and often had the problem that a connector on an after market part was too wide to fit into a connector. Smaller lugs are available, sometimes, but another way to make a wider lug to fit in a confined space is to use a pair of metal snips to reduce the width of the lug. The wire still has the same connection on the end of the lug and there is still enough metal to conduct the current. The voltage on the Unisaw is greater of course but the current is about the same. I used to install a lot of dual air horns on Gold Wings and they will draw over 30 amps! I cannot see why this technique would not work on your Unisaw. If I was doing this on my saw I would not hesitate to trim the lug. Just a suggestion.
PS. Off of your subject but an interesting story about the draw the air horns pulled. A friend had 2 sets of air horns on his Wing and while in a light parade at a nearby town unknown to him his battery failed. Chuck hit the switch to blow the air horns and because the bike was running on the alternator because of the battery failure every time he hit the horn switch the bike quit running. As soon as he let off the horn switch the momentum of the bike would restart the engine. It took him a couple of minutes to figure out what was going on. ROFLOL!!
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
"...another way to make a wider lug to fit in a confined space is to use a pair of metal snips to reduce the width of the lug."
I've done the same thing on occasion. As long as the size mismatch isn't too great, it works fine.
-Steve
Hi, Bruce. Love those Gold Wings! Funny story that.
I'm doin' fine with the 14 gauge connectors. The spades (yellow) that wouldn't fit had too wide of a space between the "fork tines", plus each being too wide. Don't know if I could cut something that small.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Generally, amperage use should not exceed 80% of the rating of the breaker. A fourteen amp breaker would then limit you to twelve amps. I think the reason for this limitation is that not all breakers will trip at exactly their rated amperage.
A twenty four amp switch that would only accept a fourteen gauge wire is completely inconsistent. It should accept at least a ten gauge wire. Can't you drill out a larger hole or force the wire in? If it is a stranded wire, which I assume it would be, try tinning the ends of the wire (melting some solder amongst the strands). That should make it much easier to thread through but you should have it wound very tightly.
To use a twenty amp breaker and twelve gauge wire without any fourteen gauge pigtail would certainly be more in the spirit of the code.
Edited 6/15/2008 12:55 am ET by Tinkerer3
I'm a little confused about how we drifted into 14-amp breakers and such, but no worries about me pigtailing anything -- won't be doing that. There are no worries or questions re: breakers -- wiring was done by a good electrician and fitted for motors that pull way more than this Unisaw.
Since the switch is for 220V, it probably wouldn't need to accept 10 gauge, would it? I dunno, I hate this stuff.
If I can't get a look-see with the electrician on Monday, I'll make a little drawing to show what I'm concerned about where the wires join up with the stuff inside the switch. There's no way to get a picture of it. Tinning might help.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Oops, I didn't mean 14 amp breaker. You'd probably be looking all day for one. I meant to say 15 amp. As some one has mentioned, a 14 gauge wire will safely handle 15 amps for a reasonable distance. More than fifteen amps and you need 12 gauge wire.
Remember that breakers don't trip at the exact rated amperage. Some trip low and some trip high. I have seen the case where a dead short tripped the 200 amp house breaker but not the 20 amp branch breaker - resulting in no protection at all to that branch.
As I mentioned in a previous post, the motor amperage requirement should not exceed 80% of the breakers rated amperage. I think of this more of a convenience than a safety measure. If you have a breaker that trips with a slightly less than rated amperage, it is an irritation to have to reset the breaker each time the motor is pulling its full load. In your case, the motor drawing 12.4 amps is slightly more that 12 amps (80% of 15 amps), so to get the most of your motors power it should really be on a 20 amp circuit with no smaller wire than 20 gauge.
As for the 24 amp switch - it seems stupid that they would make a 24 amp switch that would only fit 14 gauge wire which only handles fifteen amps. No, I don't think you need 10 gauge wire. Perhaps if we had a picture of the switch, we would have a better idea of the problem you are having. I had pictured in my mind that you would have to thread the wire in a hole, like the breaker switch generally has. Maybe this is not the case.
You already have 12 gauge cord so it would be a shame not to use it. I'm thinking it would really be better to avoid the 14 gauge pigtail. There must be a way to make the connection. Mr. Quickstep is steering you in the right way. Pay heed.
I
Edited 6/18/2008 12:14 am ET by Tinkerer3
My 3hp Unisaw has a 14ga cord that's 8 feet long. It's wired for 220 and the faceplate says it draws 12.4 amps.
What is the part of the switch that won't accept the 12ga wire? Is it the hole where the wire passes through to enter the box, or the terminations?
Hi, Quick, thanks for the info. Sounds like that cord is original equipment?? Dawned on me that OE was probably 14 gauge when I thought about my Jet saw, which was also 14 ga. and motor amps were much higher.
The strain relief is extrordinarily tight and difficult to assemble. But of more concern to me is attaching the motor and switch wires inside, where the already present internal wires have U-shaped terminals. Getting good contact with them. I'm going to compose a better description to Jerry (PacMan). Have about 5 minutes this a.m. before I have to go.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG I do not think my 3HP Unisaw had a power cord installed when I got it in the late 90's. I eventually rewired it with 10/3 SJ cable as I like to over wire my power tools. The Coleman Cable is actually .599" in diameter. All my 240 volt power tools are wired with 10 gauge cord. My Grizzly jointer switch was actually easier to wire with 10 gauge cord than the Unisaw.
I just go done rewiring my Hitachi planer with 12 gauge cable, it had a 14 gauge power cord. All you need to do is replace the strain relief with one that allow a bigger diameter cable. I should have extras and will send some if you need them. I should have steel, aluminum and plastic, your choice.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Hi, Jerry, thanks. I'm rushing to a breakfast date, I'll write this afternoon to explain the concerns about internal connections, but a bigger strain relief would help tremendously! This is a plastic box. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yes both my Unisaw and Grizzly have plastic boxes. I think the Grizzly mag switch has a metric strain relief, M20x1.5, I have those also. Check the flat part of the strain relief as it should be marked if plastic.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Hi, Jerry. I'm still figuring out 12 v. 14 If I go with the 12, I'll drop you a line with the info. Thanks for the offer. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You can probably get a bigger strain relief at an electrical supply. I've also had success getting a cord through a tight fitting strain relief by lubricating it with wire pulling lubricant (KY jelly works too :) Don't use oil or petroleum jelly, it can ruin the power cord's jacket.
Looking at the .pdf for the grizzly G4573, it looks like they used crimp on spade connectors. If that's how it's designed, you may have to use some crimp on connectors to make those terminations.
If it is a SJO and SJOO cord then it is oil-resistant. The O and OO indicate oil-resistance. I like to use a light touch of Armour-All for cord lube when needed.
I agree about using crimp connectors in mag switches. The Coleman Cable 10/3 SJEOOW uses 105 strands of 30 gauge wire for each conductor, crimp connectors are a must.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Edited 6/15/2008 5:12 pm ET by JerryPacMan
" it looks like [the Grizzly switch] used crimp on spade connectors. If that's how it's designed, you may have to use some crimp on connectors to make those terminations."
Bingo, Quick, thanks for the terminology. They do use u-shaped (not closed circle) spade connectors. The wires inside the 12-gauge cable/cord/whatever would each require a crimp connector who's U would be too wide to fit nicely when it's inserted into its niche inside the switch and then tightened down with a screw. That is what my main concern is as far as what gauge to use. I don't want to compromise the contact areas between the wires that are supposed to be tightened together. I want them to lock lips, as it were, and transfer all that electricity the way they're supposed to, LOL! Geeeeez, wish I knew the terminology to describe this right.
So, even if I could get the cable/strain relief thing straightened out, there is still the connector issue to deal with. Am I hearing votes for the Nazard's/Sarge's technique of putting a 14-gauge pigtail coming out of the switch, and then run 12 gauge from there to the outlet?? It would certainly save me money, and if there's no safety or electrical reason not to, I'd be willing to do that. Should I use a twist-lock fitting? I have the male end that came with the saw.
Thanks, all, for being patient with me on this!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You should be able to get crimp connectors that have the right size spade lug and accept your 12ga wire.
Also, since you're on the coast, you may be interested to know that marine supply stores usually have a wide variety of crimp on terminals. They're also usually good quality, too - tinned solid copper.
Edited 6/15/2008 9:41 pm ET by Quickstep
Thanks, Quick, I just assumed that as the size of the wire increased, so did the size of the spade (U). Electrical supply houses are harder to find close to my little island than the marine-related stores, so I'll see what I can find.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/16/2008 12:29 am by forestgirl
Radioshack, HD, auto supply, and regular hardware stores sell them.
They are color coded. Yellow is for 12 to 10 AWG, blue is for 16 to 14 AWG, and red is for 22 to 18 AWG.
They need to be crimped at the front and the back of the ferrule.
Len
"You cannot antagonize and influence at the same time. " J. S. Knox
Hi, Len. I'll try Radio Shack, we do have one here. The island auto parts store closed their doors last year, much to my dismay. Our hardware stores are hit-and-miss, but Ace might have some variety (Lumbermen's hardly carries anything anymore other than framing lumber and decking stuff).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG, if you have enough room in the box for wire nuts, you can use 14 ga and terminals on the switch and wire nut them to the 12ga wire. This would also meet code. Because the wires are inside the box they only have to meet chassis wiring standards and the ampacity of 14 ga wire for chassis wiring is 32 amps.
Jack
Thanks, Jack, but no room for wire nuts.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Len (et al.): Hit a brick wall trying to find the right combination of yellow with small spade. Please LMK if the following idea would work: With each wire, separate the copper strands into two bunches, tin them essentially making a 2-pronged "fork", and then slip them under the bracket that is screwed down and would hold those against the already present U terminal+wire that I'm making a connection with.
The only way to get the small-spade yellow connectors is to order a bag of 50 and wait a week for 'em to come in. Fastenal was the only place I could find them, in the catalog, special order.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
You can get them in quantities of 10 @ 31 cents apiece: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=WM18359-ND
Shipping would cost at least as much as the parts, but you could get them in a couple of days if you really wanted to.
-Steve
Thanks, Steve, I'll keep Digikey in my favorites for future use, but I'm going to bale on this and put the 14 gauge pigtail into the switch. Once I get that all done, I'm going to write Grizzly and let them know (if they care) how much of a P.I.T.A. this has been.
The original Delta switch was set up with a different style of little interior clamp that made it easy to simply slip the bare wire into it's nesting place, tighten the screw and be done with it. This replacement switch, which is sized to fit the Unisaw exactly, requires a fitting that is extremely difficult to locate in any normal retail setting. Since it's the same fitting the interior wires of the switch are equipped with, they should be tossing 4 or 5 of them into the bag with the strain relief fittings. Really ticks me off. Of course, near as I can tell, Grizzly's switch may be the only option for replacing the Delta switch short of paying twice as much for an original. Yes, I'm cheap. And grumpy. sorry.....forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
As general rule you shouldn't solder electrical connections. AC voltages and current can make enough heat to melt the solder. Crimp lugs provides some strain relief. Your method won't.
How many spade lugs do you need? I can get them for you and mail them. LMK. I'm headed out tomorrow to the local electrical supply.
Len
"You cannot antagonize and influence at the same time. " J. S. Knox
Edited 6/16/2008 9:04 pm by Len
FG the spade terminals are sized for the wire gauge, yellow for 10-12. Also they are sized for the screw size, usually #6 or #8 screws. The width of the spade also varies and I doubt you will find much locally. I remember I had to use narrow terminals for the Unisaw switch and I think the Grizzly switch took a regular width terminal. I like to use round terminals for max contact area when possible but spade terminals will be OK.
I wish I was closer so I could do the job as I should have all the parts necessary and I enjoy this type of work.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
I'm encouraged by the news that the spade size varies, and will try and find the right combination to use the 12 ga cord. Today was my only sleep-in day for a long time, but soon to be out and about, locating the right one!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Quick, how weird is this: The connectors for the switch-to-motor wire go to bigger studs, looks like they'll take the "common" yellow crimp connector size. Wonders never cease. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"I want them to lock lips, as it were, and transfer all that electricity the way they're supposed to, LOL! "
I almost fell off my seat laughing when I read that!
Locking lips will do that ;-O
I have stab/twist lock plugs on my TS and Jointer, for over the top Me, They also keep the Brother-in-law from borrowing them:-)
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 6/15/2008 9:51 pm ET by BruceS
"I almost fell off my seat laughing when I read that!" Glad to give you a little entertainment, Bruce! That was the best analogy I could come up with at the moment.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 6/16/2008 12:30 am by forestgirl
You don't state what type of wire you are using. Is it stranded or solid (if you did I missed it sorry). I've often had hard times putting a solid 12 on a switch of any kind. I have a 15' cable of 12/3Awg flex_stranded copper that I use so I can leverage a single 220 circuit for all my big stuff (BS/Jointer/TS). It is much more flexible. You can also put crimp ends on those with blades that will slide under the screw terminals real easy. If its 220 and 12.5 amps that's only 6.25 per leg and a 14awg line would be more than enough. If the griz switch will handle up to 24 amps it should take it no problem.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
"If it is 220 and 12.5 amps, that is only 6.25 amps per leg......"
The above statement is false and wiring with such thinking could lead to a dangerous situation both to the building and to you personally. The truth is that 12.5 amps is just that -- it is 12.5 amps through both legs. If the motor were set to run on 110 volts it would pull 25 amps and would require a thirty amp breaker and #10 wire. I sincerely hope you haven't wired your shop with those false thoughts in mind.
Edited 6/15/2008 11:32 pm ET by Tinkerer3
If the draw is 12.5Amps it can run on 14awg wire just fine which will handle 15A. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Yes, it should run just fine. An exception is if the breaker is a little weak. They aren't 100% accurate.
Hi FG In all your cogitatations please bear in mind that the amps on the motor plate are running amps not starting and the start surge is probably triple that albiet brief.Secondly if you are ripping 8/4 maple with a blunt blade the draw will be considerably more.Please find a way of running one piece of wire from the dissconnect to the saw.I have seen 30 A breakers go when wired to a 3hp 240v g
Hello Forestgirl,
GLAD YOU'RE RECOVERED ENOUGH TO BE BACK AT IT. 14 GAUGE WILL HANDLE 15 AMPS, 12 GA. 20 AMPS. USE 14 GA AND MAKE THE COED ABOUT `0 FEET and you should be fine.
again, glad you're better. I'm sure it was no walk in the park.
Steve
There are two secrets to keeping one's wife happy.
1. Let her think she's having her own way.
2. Let her have her own way. President Lyndon Baines Johnson
Thanks, Steve, yes, I'm back to "normal" (whatever that is). Yesterday was the first day of riding one of my assigned horses that I didn't develop a headache afterwards.
I'm feeling comfortable with the pigtail idea with the saw cord. Two or three feet of 14 gauge, to plug into the 12 gauge 15-footer. I need it to work ASAP, as I "bumped" a wooden step with the tractor yesterday, tore it away from the wall. It was all funky and tattered anyway, so not a big loss, but I need to make a new one.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"Two or three feet of 14 gauge, to plug into the 12 gauge 15-footer."
Can I make a suggestion? It's a bit more work, but since connections have a relatively high failure rate, it pays to make them as reliable as possible:
Install a small electrical box somewhere on the body of the saw, near the existing wiring box. Run your AWG 14 wires from the switch into this box, and then run your AWG 12 cord (I'm assuming it's going to be a flexible cord with a plug on the end, right?) into the box as well. Connect the two together inside the box with wire nuts.
-Steve
"...since connections have a relatively high failure rate, it pays to make them as reliable as possible:" Yeah, I was going to go with twist-lock, but the parts were too expensive. Len's got me convinced that having just a pigtail to drag around when I move the saw will be pretty convenient, and I've already bought the parts, so I think I'll go with the original plan for now, but I'll keep your idea in mind for future ref, if there are any problems.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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