Replies

1. 
   bones | Nov 26, 2006 09:01am | #1

   You don't say where in VA you live? I lived in Roanoke, and it took me 500 bucks to get 3 circuits added to an exisitng panel, which had space. That included breakers EMT and outlets.  That was by non-union labor. If you live in NOVA, all bets are off. 

   Be sure to check and see if you need an additional 100 amp service added.  You could possibly get by with less. If your box is full or you cannot add easily, you could may be able to add a sub-panel.  I have several 220v pieces of equipment, but only have two running at the same time i.e. TS & DC.  Add a third or fourth circuit for some 15-20 amp tools, and you may be good to go.  Ask some electricians.  If you are not comfortable doing any of your own stuff, please be sure to get a licensed Electrician. 

   Good luck

   
   

   ---

   Edited 11/26/2006 1:07 am ET by bones

1. 
   RabbetRun | Nov 27, 2006 05:35am | #9

   bones,

   I live in the Richmond area, so I imagine an electrician here is less expensive than in Northern Virginia. I have 5 numbered spaces available in the breaker box (located in the attached garage/shop).  I need at least one 220v circuit. The rest can be 110s. Is this workable? Does those 5 spaces mean I have a total of 550v available? thanks for the dollar figure; at least it gives me some idea.

   susan    

1. 
   tinkerer2 | Nov 27, 2006 06:47am | #13

   "Do those five spaces mean that I have a total of 550 volts available?"  The answer is no.  It means that you have five spaces to attach a 110 volt circuit to.  And seriously, if this is a serious question, I think that you should talk this over pretty well with an electrician before you start on the project, and then get a licensed electrician to go over it thoroughly when you finish.  It is for your own protection.

2. 
   bones | Nov 27, 2006 06:52pm | #15

   Instead of volts look at your amps (look at your equipment requirements).  You may have enough space to have a sub panel bring out of your main box enough to carry what you need.  Think about what you would be needing to run at the same time. For example. If you only need 20 amps to drive a ts, and lets say another 220V circuit to run a dust collector at 10 amps(these are examples), and another couple 110v circuits at 15-20ams, you could get by with a sub panel.  You may have another option as well. Depending on your panel manufacturer, you may be able to free up enough space by replacing full size breakers in your panel with half size. This basically will free up space and you could fit more breakers in your box. This is what I did with my last house when I bought it.  My panel is in my three car garage and only had 3 open spots.  Since 220v breakers are double pole, I had to have two spots for a single breaker.  I had a choice of running a sub panel or making room. I needed at a minimum of 2 20 amp 220v circuits for my table saw and bandsaw (they will never run at the same time), and one for my dust collector. I wanted 2 additional 20 amp 110v circuits to run all my possible hand tools. Lights already have their own breakers.  I ended up replacing 5 of the existing full height breakers with slim line ones, and that freed enough room to put in my the two 20a breakers and 2 20amp breakers for the 110 stuff.  I had to weigh the cost of the replacement breakers .vs. the cost of a sub panel and cable.  I wired it myself so labor did not matter to me.  In the end, it was cheaper to do the replacement than the sub pane.  I would suggest you have some electricians come in and give you a quote.  Take their advice they are professionals and that's what they do.  Check them out, and make sure they are legit.  Wiring done badly can burn your house down.  Good luck. 

   Edited 11/27/2006 10:54 am ET by bones

2. 
   Ed | Nov 26, 2006 09:32pm | #2

   I had a 100 amp sub-panel installed in my basement shop.  It has 3 220v circuits, 2 110v circuits and a dedicated 110v light circuit.  Plenty of unused slots remain. At the same time I added 20 4' t8 double lamp ceiling fixtures and did some miscellaneous rewiring of existing circuits.  The bill was $1,800.  I used a licensed electrician.   The work was done in 2004 on Cape Cod in eastern MA.

   I have a small wood stove for heat but usually the ceiling lights alone keep the shop warm enough in winter (and too warm in summer).

   Ed

    

1. 
   royjcouvillion | Nov 26, 2006 09:34pm | #3

   Sorry. I can't help.

   I'm in Louisiana and am still running the airconditioner.

   However, it DOES get cold down here.  It froze both days last winter.

2. 
   RabbetRun | Nov 27, 2006 05:43am | #10

   Ed,

   Thanks for posting the dollar figure; at least it gives me some idea. The 100amp service would be the final solution, as I could add more permanent heat later. I do have 5 slots in the breaker box that are unused. Box is located in the garage/shop, so it shouldn't be too expensive to use those. Kudos for making do with wood stove and lighting. If I lived in Mass, I would need **&^%BTU heater.

   take care,

   susan

3. 
   Piccioni | Nov 27, 2006 02:11am | #4

   This is, unfortunately, one of those 'it depends' answers.

   The amount of work an electrician would have to do would depend greatly on the acessability and size of the existing panel, how 'full' it is, and a whole bunch of other factors.

   Up here in Ontario, any homeowners can do his/her own electrical wiring provided it is permitted and inspected. I did all the wiring on my house, and if you take the time to read and understand the code book it is very easy to do.

   I have put several sub panels in my basement to simplify the wiring. In general, it is pretty easy to do. Basically, (all acording to your local code) just run a cable from a (eg) 100amp breaker in your existing panel (which should be more than 100 amp) to a sub-panel box. Hook up red, white, black, and copper wires and start running the cables to outlets.

   There are a lot of details in that, though. If its legal in your state, you should be able to do some of the work yourself and have an electrician come in and inspect, then hook up the breakers.

1. 
   woodlark | Nov 27, 2006 02:34am | #5

   I've run wires myself in Virginia - I had no problems getting the permit and setting up inspections. I did hire an electrician for a couple of hours to help set up a panel - though the directions in a book were clear, I felt more comfortable on that end. On the other hand, running the outlets from the panel is a piece of cake. I'm using 3/4 inch pvc conduit. Get good clear books, and check with the codes office about any local spacing requirements between outlets, GFCI requirements, ...

2. 
   RabbetRun | Nov 27, 2006 05:56am | #11

   Piccioni,-

     You make it sound sooo easy! Maybe I will do a little reading; I could really use that money for an air cleaner, drill press, lobster dinner, mortiser etc, etc, etc. And yes, non-professional is allowed in VA to do their own work, as long as it is inspected.

   take care,    susan   

1. 
   Piccioni | Nov 27, 2006 05:10pm | #14

   It is easy, and safe AS LONG AS YOU FOLLOW CODE!

   Why people are afraid of electricity is beyond me. Your major risk is of fire, which become no risk if the work is done to code. Basically, you are threading a bunch of cables through walls and hooking their ends you to outlets. Provided you do it right, there should be no problem. Just remember RED & BLACK are 'Hot', WHITE is 'Neutral', and copper or green is ground.

   Key things to look out for are cable sizes (12 guage even for 15A outlets is a good idea - I don't remember the 100A feed). Basically you size the cable to the breaker and the breaker to the plug.

   If you can't run cable through the walls, use armoured cable or conduit. Armoured is much easier but you have to remember to install the anti-short bushings (one thing inspectors always check).

   The biggest pain is usually light fixtures because you have to deal with running through ceilings, switchs and so forth. I generally keep don't tie the lights to the subpanel, because its nice to have light to work with even when the panel is off. You may want to leave your lights 'as is'

   My method of work is to run all the outlets to where the box will be, leaving a few extra feet of cable. Then I connect the outlets to the cables and I install the breaker panel and connect all the cables to the panel. Try an 'balance' the 100 circuits so roughly the same number of cables comes off each of the BLACK and RED feeds.

   Then I run the feeder cable from the cut off switch (you can use a 100A breaker 'in reverse') to the main panel. With this approach I'm never worried about working with live wires until the sub panel is hooked up to the main panel.

   Anyhow it is easy. According to my inspector, the problems he encounters are generally just laziness and stupidity: running extension cords through the walls, 'hidden' junction boxes, no grounds, reversed Hot and Neutral (for God's sake white and black - how much easier could it be?), undersized cables (14 guage for 20 amp circuits), 'crowed boxes', and so on.

    

1. 
   Rich14 | Nov 28, 2006 06:25pm | #17

   Piccioni,

   "If you can't run cable through the walls, use armoured cable or conduit. Armoured is much easier but you have to remember to install the anti-short bushings (one thing inspectors always check)."

   Antishort bushings? What are they? Maybe I know them by a different name?

   Rich

1. 
   TKanzler | Nov 28, 2006 07:01pm | #18

   "Antishort bushings? What are they? Maybe I know them by a different name?"

   Redheads, perhaps?Be seeing you...

2. 
   Rich14 | Nov 28, 2006 07:08pm | #19

   OK, Got it. Found lots of info in a Google search. Why are they required in Armor Clad (AC) installations, but not in Metal Clad (MC) installations?

   Rich

3. 
   Piccioni | Nov 28, 2006 08:01pm | #20

   I don't know what metal clad is (Google tells me its BX, or armored), but with BX they are required because there is some concern the armour, which is ground, will cut its way through the insulation and make a short. This is ok if the armour is actually ground, because it'll flip the breaker, but if the ground is floating it could make the armour live and a shock hazard.

   Anyhow, thats what I was told. It doesn't seem likely to me, buy there you have it

   Code is code and we live by it.

   Edited 11/28/2006 1:04 pm ET by Piccioni

4. 
   kleenhippie | Nov 27, 2006 02:41am | #6

   Susan,

   Are you in NVA? I am an electrician in Manassas, I no longer work in the field but can send you some names if you are anywhere near here and or out toward Front Royal.

    

   Kevin

   *************************

   "Yes Dear, I'll be up in just a minute....."

1. 
   RabbetRun | Nov 27, 2006 05:27am | #8

   hippie,

   Thanks, for the offer, but I live in the Richmond area. I guess I will just have to schedule some appointments to get some estimates from electricians. The breaker box is in the attached garage, so it shouldn't be too difficult.  AND, yes I am running an extension cord into the house right now.

   take care,

    

   Edited 11/26/2006 9:45 pm ET by RabbetRun

1. 
   kleenhippie | Nov 27, 2006 06:46am | #12

   ok, just fyi. Electricians usually get 7.00 per amp for a heavy-up, and that should include all materials. So let's say you were to increase your service size from 100 amp to 200 amp, you should look to pay in the area of 1400.00.

   The contractor should cover cost of permit and pull the permit. Make sure that his state license is valid (both tradesman and business), and that he's insured. I wish I knew some more people from local 666 (IBEW local in Richmonnd.)

   If you shop around for a contractor, remember this... A contractor will try to make you feel as though you need him. The opposite is true; especially in the Richmond area, the contractor needs you and others like you to feed  his kids.

   Kevin*************************

   "Yes Dear, I'll be up in just a minute....."

5. 
   kleenhippie | Nov 27, 2006 02:44am | #7

   If you have an attached garage, you could plug in a 50 foot cord to your kitchen/dining rm circuit (20A dedicated ckt) and run it out to one of your heaters. That would help temporarily.

   *************************

   "Yes Dear, I'll be up in just a minute....."

6. 
   DonStephan | Nov 28, 2006 04:11am | #16

   The range of replies is interesting and should be helpful. My first suggestion would be to get strong referrals for 2 or 3 electricians (local hardware store, electrical supplier, local "Angie's List", neighbors, ...) and ask them to meet with you and discuss your needs and their recommendations. A list prepared in advance of tools and equipment you would LIKE to have in the next 24 months with amperage of each (on tool label or perhaps in the FWW article) and combinations you forsee running simultaneously would be MOST helpful for the meeting, as well as drawing where you would like to have lights and equipment operational, including hand tools and battery chargers. And alternate circuits on general purpose outlets along the wall.

   A good electrician will be able to suggest whether your current breaker box would be a candidate for half height breakers (they produce more heat and not all manufacturers allow extensive numbers of half height breakers) and whether a sub-panel would be recommended. Another small investment I have always found very worthwhile is to schedule a consultation with your area's electrical inspector to preview your plans and hopefully uncover in advance issues the inspector would have with the planned work.

   Basic electrical work is rather straightforward, but the devil is always in the details. Seen far too many metal boxes where the romex insulation was stripped too short. Too often the wires are stripped too short or too long, and not twisted together before installing the wire nut. Too many wires in a box - makes later work a nightmare. ... If you'd like to do basic work yourself, take a community education basic residential wiring course and plan on spending at least $100 for good wire stripper, romex stripper, vibrating electrical tester, 3/16" and 1/4" nut drivers, and some other goodies you probably don't already have.