Hi All:
I recently got a Delta 50-760 1 1/2 HP collector, and I am trying to design my shop ductwork setup. I have included a SketchUp file of my basic shop setup with all of the machines in place and the ductwork plan I’ve been thinking of. Any input would be appreciated.
There are a couple of thing that I think are important to point out when looking at the layout and considering my particular situation:
– The large, concrete “rafters” that cross my basement ceiling make it virtually impossible to move the collector around. The top bag is too high to clear them without considerable modification.
– For those who think I may have too much ductwork for a 1 1/2 HP collector (myself included, perhaps!), I am also considering converting the top bag to a cartridge filter (http://www.wynnenv.com/delta_50-760.htm). This would make moving the collector around a realistic strategy. I would be interested in your opinions regarding this option.
– If I did go to a mobile-collector solution, it may be helpful to know that I have several items that are already mobile. They are: the workbench, jointer, planer, bandsaw and the lathe.
– The ducting I’ve put into the sketch is 8″ in diameter, but that is not accurate. The largest diameter I am thinking about using is 6″ ducting.
– The scale of my shop measurements are very close but not exact. I am spending a few weeks on vacation, and I’m away from home.
Thanks, in advance, for any input!
Replies
What program opens an .skp file? In fact, what is an .skp file?
Alan - planesaw
Alan,
Its a Sketch Up file. You can download a free copy of the software at the Google home page.
-Nazard
I woulsn't use more than 6 inch ducting, mostly because of the cost, and if your only using 1 or two machines at a time I don't thing it would be neccassary.
Also where did you get the sketch up models of your tools?
Thank you for the input. You are correct in that I intend to use this collector with only one machine at a time.I am definitely beginning to lean toward less ductwork. I may end up hooking up to each machine separately, or -- at the most -- having the two separate trunk lines, one going up each side of the shop. I could then wheel the collector from one side to the other. The distance from the collector to each machine would not be as far.The SketchUp models I used all came from the SketchUp "3D Warehouse". You access it from the File menu. Do a search for "Tools" or "Woodworking" and you should find mostly everything you need.Thanks again
"I could then wheel the collector from one side to the other." For a while, i was having to switch the hose from one machine to another, and it was extremely time-consuming (relative to the actually cutting/milling time. It's my guess you'll tire of the wheeling (plus, DC's aren't all that easy to wheel around). It's important, IMHO, that your set-up doesn't present an inconvenience which precipitates not using the DC for a quick cut here or there (health).
"The distance from the collector to each machine would not be as far." If you put your big air consumers (table saw, planer for instance) closest to the DC, you should be fine.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
forestgirl,
I have my woodshop configured into a center island, at least the major dust producers. I'm going to purchase the Delta 50-760 1.5 HP system.
I'm planning on a central plenum with connections running off it to each stationary machine (jointer, TS w/router table mounted into extension table, downdraft table integrated into outfeed table), with connections (2) for planer and RAS. These two will share a flex hose to be connected when needed.
In other words, a very short run, maybe 3-5', all into a 6-8" plenum under the outfeed table. Eventually I hope to pipe it down to the first floor where the DC will sit, less than an 8' run of 8" to 6" at the DC.
I know it sounds confusing so I'll try to put together a sketch. Hoping to take advantage of gravity!
Whatta ya think? Oh yeah, all machines will be blast gated to the plenum.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 8/21/2007 8:49 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 8/21/2007 8:50 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
I'd love to see a sketch of your plan, for sure. The short runs should be advantageous, and it certainly sounds as though you'll save on ducting costs. My biggest challenge vis a vis dust collection is visualizing a good arrangement for the tools (never was good at arranging furniture either!). So a sketch of your island would be informative, maybe even inspiring.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
forestgirl,
It may take a few days as the design exists only in my head, but it will be very much like Alan DeVilbiss' Shop in an Island, http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/Workshop/WorkshopPDF.aspx?id=24994 but smaller.
Also I will have the DC somewhat as does he initially with the intent eventually putting it downstairs in the woodshed below. That wil require a simple downward to the DC once I move it.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob;
Bear in mind that once you move it to a different room it will be extracting air,heat,cooling from your shop unless you duct the exhaust back in. You also must make sure you have enough ingress to compensate for the egress or you will reduce the efficiency of your system.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Mr. Gore <G>,
it will be extracting air,heat,cooling from your shop unless you duct the exhaust back in
This is exactly the issue I haven't figured out yet. The DC will stay in the shop till I figure that one out. It comes with a 1 micron bag.
Tom Hintz did a review on it: http://www.newwoodworker.com/reviews/d50-760rvu.html Maybe he'll catch this discussion and pipe in.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 8/22/2007 2:22 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob;
Not sure what you mean by the Gore reference since I personally have little respect for the man or his ideology. Could you expound?
I like the idea of locating my cyclone outside the shop and I have figured out a way to do it with a six inch penetration for the intake and a 7 inch penetration for the exhaust. I can mount my cannisters horizontally up near the overhead and gain some floor space. I am working on a way to deal with the dust bin (45 gal. can) Which needs to be emptied at least twice weekly. My layout does not lend itself to an easy solution of that problem. Good luck with your installation.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Didn't mean to point to any form of politics. It's your signature;
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Every time I see it I get chuckle from it. Thanks for the input.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Slapping myself on the forehead!
Not enough time off this year, a little brain dead!------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Now, whoever you call yourself <G>, got any ideas on how to vent a return from the DC back into the woodshop?
Seriously though, I thought of placing a cone shaped piece of sheetmetal with the bige flared end on the bottom just above the "capture bag" and let the heat naturally rise back up into the shop. This is a doable thing for me.
This may sound a bit confusing so as forestgirl suggested maybe it's time to get out the pencil and paper and draw a sketch. I'll work on that.
Just a thought.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 8/22/2007 7:43 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob, you might want to re-think the idea of "returning" the air from the DC. One of my dearest dreams is to have all of that air exhaust outside the shop (DC in an outside cubicle, for instance). The super-fine dust that gets through the cannister filter is the stuff that's the worst for the lungs, and the easiest to ignore because it can't be seen and can barely be smelled. I know, every time I turn on the DC, that I should be wearing a mask at least, and probably a respirator.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
forestgirl,
This exact point has been a huge puzzle for me! To return or not to return.
I've tried to break this thing down into pieces hoping to find the answer and I keep coming up short.
Localize the DC: I search and find a DC that filters the dust down to a point (1 micron or less). Doesn't suck the heat/cool out of the shop. Downsides: dust not captured returns back into the shop. Need dust mask/respirator. If this keeps going I'll have to dress up like a mad scientist in a clean room! Bottom Line: This sucks!
Remote the DC: Still find a DC that filters dust down to a point (1 micron or less). Downside: Sucks the heat/cool out of the shop. Now I can dress like Norm, but may need another shirt or two in the winter and spend more heating the shop. Sounds like this is the way to go and I won't have to drag an oxygen tank around!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Be careful with exterior venting. Not onlly does it exhaust warm and cool conditioned air outside, unless make up air is provided, it can cause combustion gases from heaters, water heaters, etc to be sucked into the living space, overcoming their normal flue exhaust, and carbon monoxide is not friendly.
bg
I'm with you and Forestgirl on this one. I have my shop just about ready to go except for arranging the tools for efficient dust pickup. I have several books on shop setup but just can't seem to get anything in my head for really placing the tools. I was thinking of getting help from Onieda for the dust hookup but suppose I first need to have some semblance of tool arrangement.
HELP ANYBODY!
Like you, I had thought of putting the DC down in the floor below, (In my case, it would be the basement). I can't put holes in the floor just anywhere because the concrete floor has inbeded hot water lines for the radiant heat, but I do have a place above the basement stairs and also a firewood chute I could use for the conveyance tubes. I had thought of getting one of these cheap collectors that I could just wheel around and hook it up to the machine I was going to use.
Edited 8/23/2007 12:07 am ET by tinkerer2
tink,
See the link in this discussion, 37284.9 to Alan DeVilbiss' Shop in an Island. I am arranging mine in a similar configuration, but much smaller.
Just an idea.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hello Mr. Acres,
I apologize for not thanking you for the last message, especially after my sending out the SOS. I've been thinking. I can hardly make out the picture referred to and I don't know how to get a larger version. Perhaps, when you arrange your tools as you plan to do with your idea of the dust collector, then I can get an idea from that. I am about ready to get some sort of a dust collector. I might just get one of those portable collectors that you can hook up to the machine when you use it.
T-2. The link Bob provided was for an article in the "paid portion" of the FWW site. If you're not a member, you can't see anything but the preview of the article. If you are a member, click on the View as PDF right underneath the picture.
Joining up costs about $15 I think, if you subscribe to FWW. If you're not a subscriber, it's around $34 (????). Access to tons of articles and Ask the Experts forum.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forestgirl always to the rescue. Thanks FG, No I'm not a member and I don't even get the magazine unless it comes from Lowes etc. I have tried to get a subscription on the computer but I get the message that I am not allowed. I hate to call because my hearing is so bad. Oh well .
"I have tried to get a subscription on the computer but I get the message that I am not allowed. " I think you'd really enjoy the subscription once you got it. If you want to persue it, drop a note to SYSOP at [email protected] -- Mark will help you out, I'm sure!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"I have tried to get a subscription on the computer but I get the message that I am not allowed. " Forest.. I EDIT: thing to think they saw your name and knew you had a knack for 'sturrin' things up that make us men think! We have a hard time with that!
Edited 9/25/2007 8:55 pm by WillGeorge
"See the link in this discussion, 37284.9 to Alan DeVilbiss' Shop in an Island." Bob, I can't remember, do you know how to make a "link" here at Knots??
Take that 38284.9, and highlight it with your mouse. Then click on the Globe icon (with the chain-link in it). Pop-up box appears, paste in the URL you want to link to. Sweet! (All assuming, of course, that you use IE. It probably doesn't work with other browsers).
Thusly: 37284.9 <--clickforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
JUST ME SO DO NOT PUT THAT MUCH FAITH IN IT..
I had a Jet 1 1/2 HP Dust Collector. For what it is worth my shop vacuum worked MUCH better! OK so I had to empty the bag more often!
I gave it to the local School District for use in their wood shop. They seemed happy?
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