K..Somewhat of a serious question. After baking a beautiful berry pie last night I had to allow it to cool..shazam! The idea struck me that the TS top in the garage would be a great place. I have granite kitchen counter tops which I usually use but I needed my slice of pie right NOW!
Anyway, it worked great. Cooled the pie in no time. My question is could the heat (Baked at 375) harm a cold TS top? Ambient temp in the garage was about 40 degrees.
Thanks Folks!
Brian
Replies
It's highly unlikely that a temp of 375 could hurt your table saw. You are no where near the temp at which cast iron would start to deform. The engine block in your car is made out of cast iron and cylinder temp is much higher than 375 under normal operating conditions. The water to cool that engine block would run at just over 200.
Relax and have some pie.
Relaxed and full. Thanks!
Er, what about the fridge or freezer? (;)
As an aside, did you know that very soon there will be table saws available with granite tops?
I've heard about that. Will be interesting to find out how people like them
It's not supposed to be good for the fridge to put warm or especially hot items in to cool. Makes the fridge work too hard or something.
Later, Brian
I would check the top tomorrow morning to make sure moisture did not occur from cold cast iron and a hot pie pan. Can we say condensation can cause rust.
BTW.. I have a granite fence on my jointer. I could lay the jointer on it's side put the pie on the granite fence and it still wouldn't rust. Won't warp either. ha.. ha...
Sarge..
Hi Sarge! You won't remember me cause I haven't been posting for a long long time but I sure do remember you and all the great advice I got from you. Really good to see you are still making sawdust.
How are you liking the granite tops? Pros and cons? I bet you have already had many conversations in Knots about it so I will research it if you don't feel like going over it again.
Again, good to see you're still out there.
Brian
Morning Brian...
I actually have one of the 3 original proto-types of the granite "fence" on my jointer for field testing as along with the TS... the granite has not hit the market yet. How do I like it!
I don't like it... I love it and why not? It's dead flat and it won't rust period! I have bumped it pretty hard with the end of stock jostling around 12' long 8/4 oak on several occasions and personally feel it would have to take a major blow from something with a concentrated steel head as a ball peen to chip it.
Their is no problem with the wood sliding on it's surface as it is polished.
Hope that gets you up to date....
Sarge...
Sarge, what do you think of using some sort of epoxy to glue a piece of dead flat granite to the existing iron of a jointer fence?Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Well.. I haven't thought of it at all! But now that you mention it, why not experiment if you happen to have a scrap piece of cast iron and a scrap piece of polished granite? I wouldn't apply a finish on a piece before I tested a new method either. :>)
Scott just mentioned Hilti epoxy and they tested it to 450 ft. lbs. of torque to see when it would break the bond. But.. having a granite on my jointer, I could not imagine that any force that large would be used in a surface planing scenario. All the stock does is slide on the fence.
The possible problems that could arise IMO, would be from the additional weight of the granite to an already existing cast iron. I would reduce the thickness to around 3/4" or no more than 1". Granite is very heavy and so is cast iron but not as heavy as the granite. If your jointer doesn't have exceptional strength with the current attachment, would it possibly add enough weight to make it droop forward out of 90 degree alignment with the table?
Also.. the SC granite fence had 3 Teflon inserts on the bottom. One in the center and one on each end. They make it impossible for granite to touch the cast iron table. I will say the SC fence is balance and I have never seen either end come close to the table when moving the fence forward and backward, but they are there as an extra hedge against that just in case.
And.. black granite is not that cheap. Around $50 a square foot here in Georgia and we are a major granite producing state. If you could get a scrap from a counter place and have them cut it ( just another consideration of cost) and grind it within reason, why not give it a go! If it works you won't regret the results of flat or no rust with the exception of the remaining cast iron parts.
Good luck and keep me posted if you try it...
Sarge..
Edited 1/5/2008 1:19 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Thanks Sarge. Quick question. If you were to buy an 8" jointer today say for under a grand, which would you get?
Thx, Brian
A 8" jointer under a grand... not too much thought necessary on that one. I would go Grizzly and you could do it with a dove-tail way for much less than a grand or a parrellegram (sp) for just under shipped I do believe.
If you were going 6" which you didn't ask about, it would have to be the SC.. Sunhill or the Grizzly again. But if you have up to a grand to spend and the extra space for the longer table... no reason to even consider it.
Good luck with what you decide on...
Sarge..
Thx Sarge, I'll check the griz out. Brian
I can't resist jumping in on this one (retired biologist :) ) There is some truth to allowing things to cool before putting them in the fridge, but not as much as urban legend would have one believe. Allow your pie (or whatever) to cool a bit (still quite warm to the touch), and then put it in the fridge (while warm).The idea here is that the longer it takes for something to cool, as would happen at room temperature, the longer certain kinds of bacteria have to "do their thing". Cooking doesn't kill everything... Putting warm things in the fridge sooner rather than later reduces the likelihood for certain kinds of food poisoning to occur. Actually, it really doesn't matter where you put the stuff to cool down (even your TS), the trick is to cool it quickly. Even outdoors on a winter day works – just as long as the ravens can't get at it :)Hope your pie was delicious!Ted
Good to know. Thanks. I really wasn't thinking of the poisoning potential but doing some harm to the fridge. Guess I need to get my priorities straight.
Thx again, Brian
"Makes the fridge work too hard or something".
Don't you believe it-the job of that fridge is to cool things down. If you are in a real hurry then you can put the pies in the deep freeze (;).
Granite topped table saws: if these could be 4 inches thick then one could have a surface plate/table saw combination for those who are not sure if they are woodworms or metalheads .
Seriously: wood seems to slide very nicely over granite surfaces, but I am wandering how the makers have addressed the problem of wear on the miter grooves, and how is the granite attached to the saw .How thick is the granite?Philip Marcou
Greeting Phillip...
I knew the exact answers to your questions at one time but the memory is somewhat fogged on two of the issues. I have posted here in several threads as to the miter gauge, but I realize you are a busy man as I and don't read all threads.
The miter slot is standard 3/8" but it has a T channel at the base similar to the one's on U.S. saws that receive the small roller mounted on bottom of a U.S. miter gauge. As you know, that keeps the gauge bar from just popping up out of the slot.
But.. the Steel City bar has a 2" wide phonelic tab opposed to the tiny metal roller on others. The tab rides in a 2" + channel at the base of the slot itself and is replaceble. So.. as just mentioned several days ago to Forest Girl, an Incra Miter gauge would not work unless the head was removed from the stock bar and retro-fitted to the Steel City bar.
On memory I believe the top is 3" thick and attaches to the table via stainless steel re-enforcement bars incorporated and epoxied to the granite. The black granite fence on my SC 8" jointer is 2" thick with the same attachments as the stock cast iron that came with it. That made the switch-over when installing under a ten minute job.
If I am off on any detail I have mentioned above concerning the TS table, I will post the correct info within a day or so. I left a message on Scott Box's (VP of Steel City Tool-works) cell phone. He may be out of town as he usually just answers it on about the 3rd ring. But.. he will call back and I can be more specific after I again get the actual info straight from the "horse's mouth".
Edit... Scott just called back as he has been working the WW show in Baltimore for the last 4 hours this morning.
The table top is 44mm or just over 2" similar to the jointer fence. Indeed stainless re-enforcement bars are apoxied in the top to make the attachment. They use Hilti two part epoxie which has been tested to 450 lb. pull strenght.
And the 2" tab on the miter bar is not phonelic.. it is metal and it is replaceable. Scott stated the granite does not wear from the friction but the metal bar will eventually. That's why they made it to be easily replaced for a few dollars.
Hope I didn't over-look anything you ask...
Highest regards...
Sarge..
Edited 1/5/2008 11:46 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 1/5/2008 12:06 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Thanks Sarge. I still have a question: since the granite is so much thicker than the usual cast iron top, how have they rigged the arbor assembly so that the depth of cut is not affected ?Philip Marcou
An a question that a "man or iron" would ask. I have gotten to know some of the Steel City guys pretty well. They are definitely "tools guys" IMO and of course had to take that into consideration to avoid a major flaw. And... they did!
You and I would look at the top and probably the first thing that would come to mind would be to recess the area around the arbor movement and blade to allow clearance. That would make common sense and doesn't require "rocket science" technology to figure. So...
They didn't complicate it... they recessed the area to allow full blade raise and arbor clearance. They also re-enforced by adding stainless steel bars around the recess along with the attachment of the table to the base.
Any more questions... give me a shout!
Sarge..
So now it would be interesting to compare the two top making processes and see which is more cost effective in the end. Are we to find that the most cost effective one is the one the consumer will have to have -whether he likes it or not?Philip Marcou
When I ask about the cost of using the granite I was reminded that cast iron is not cheap and even with extremely good quality control in place during the various phases of making cast iron, you still can get a stressed batch if the carbon is not dispersed evenly.
The granite comes from a high grade mine near the factory in China. The grinding, etc. is done with machine and the entire process is quick and easy compared to the stages of producing cast iron. The result is a top that won't warp and it cost no more to produce considering the source than producing the cast iron which still carries a gamble from start to finish. Possible flaws won't be detected in most cases till after it has reached the hand of the consumer.
Will consumers have to have it? I don't think so as most think of cast iron as steel which is much harder. Simply.. it's not... but the point is that may not be recognized as cast iron is what we could call traditional and if tradition changes it is a slow process only sped by stumbling onto realization that a better way may exist.
Driving a Honda is both cost effective in manufacture and gas mileage, but I hardly think that those that have a large Mercedes will trade tomorrow and rush to their local Honda dealer even though both will get you from Point A to Point B.
I will wait and see as all the speculation of what might happen is just that at this point... speculation and speculation is not based on what could happen and not necessarily what will!
I have to go clean out my filters on my cyclone as they are clogged. If I don't.. I know for a fact what will happen and all the speculation in the world won't change the reality! :>)
Sarge..
Just heard from Sarge and he is testing one of three original prototype jointer fences. Says he is liking it. Dead flat, no rust issues and feels you would have to really nail it with something metallic to chip it. He didn't mention the dimensions of his fence.
I don't think the miter grooves would wear enough in my lifetime to be an issue.
Brian
"Makes the fridge work too hard or something."
That may have been true 50 years ago, but modern refrigerators have no problem dealing with it.
-Steve
Good to know.
O.K, since this thread seems to be wandering here and there, I just read a quote in the "home" section of the local paper (San Franfiasco Chronicle) from an interior design expert to the effect that granite and stainless steel is soooo yesterday and is soon to be gone the way of the dodo bird. I take that to mean that in the near future we will have an abundance of surplus granite with which to replace our cast iron fences and table saw saw tops. Ah, marketing.
Still waiting for my popcorn ceilings to come back into fashion.
Dennis
And to think it all started with one measley Berry pie... ;)..... (that's me drooling).
Brian
I have heard that kitchen benchtops are coming in cast steel for pie cooling better than cast ironYou can make it fool proof but not idiot proof
Good to know.
Table saws with granite tops; next are cast-iron kitchen counters.ne sutor ultra crepidam
Here ya' go...................
http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/newsreleases_display.cfm?section=4&release=83
and another...
http://blogs.popularwoodworking.com/editorsblog/Exclusive+Steel+City+Will+Rock+Your+World.aspx
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home.
...aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Edited 1/5/2008 1:32 am by oldbeachbum
"next are cast-iron kitchen counters."I don't think bakers will like them- with a variance of .005", they'll probably say the top isn't flat enough and that the pie crusts don't cook as evenly when they have thick spots.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
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