Was interesting to read fdampiers assessment of the woodcraft store in the twin cities. my daughter lives there and i looked for the woodcraft store. I experienced the same bald eagle in that store. they need to show that guy the door. also, i found a similiar man at the detroit store the one on 161/2 mile road. I always get the impression i should feel priviliged to be able to walk into the store. It must be company policy to hire such people.
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Replies
Bob -
The Seattle store is nothing like you describe. Very cordial and helpful people they have there.
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
I concur.The Seattle store is a great resource, both material and human.Tom
tms -With the understanding that this is a beat-up-Woodcraft thread, I'll hazard a question - do you frequent the Rockler store on Stone Way in Seattle? I hadn't been there in a few months after which I dropped in to find all the 'old guard' folks seem to have been replaced by rather know-nothings. As though it had changed hands and all the current help was in the process of learning what they stocked and where............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Hi Dennis,Yes, I do frequent the Rockler store on Stone Way, mostly out of convenience, both my home and my shop are but a few blocks away. It's usually hard to beat their prices and they have some great salesThat said, I do like to go to the Woodcraft store in the Georgetown area. They seem to bo more knowledgable, and better stocked.I also make good use of Eastside Saw, just of Bel-Red road. They are Lennox and Delta dealers.Tom
'morning Tom -Eastside Saw! You bet. Even now that we've moved to Mt Vernon I still buy from them. Probably the most knowledgeable source for blades in the area.I just wondered if you had noticed a change in the Stone Way Rockler store in the recent past. There seemed to be a wholesale turnover of staff. Up here in the North there are no specialty woodworking outlets like Woodcraft or Rocklers. At least I've yet to find any............
From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.
Dennis
Dennis if you are looking for hardwood there is Martin lumber in Everett on the corner of California & Brodway that has a larger selection of hardwood than either Rockler or the Woodworkers store & then there is the Puget Sound woodworking center 2 blocks east of there that also sells wood & tools & has classes & rents out shop time for use of thier equipment, Everything from wide belt sanders to use of One way lathes.
I had always considered having a Woodcraft store here in the Kansas City area a real treat. Even if I didn't buy there, although I have spent several thousand dollars there over the years, it was a good place to "check out" tools and supplies that I might order later. I didn't interact with the help much and had pretty low expectations of their woodworking knowledge. A year ago I got a gift certificate from my wife that was large enough to buy a LN plane I had been lusting after. When I visited the store and they were out of stock on the plane I wanted, I ran into a very bad attitude. First a salesman was rude and I thought insulting (trying to not go into to much detail) and then the manager took his shot at me. I did feel good that I didn't lose my temper but was surprised that they would go after a customer the way they did. I have only been back twice this past year and was in there about two weeks ago. I'll be darned if they weren't rude to me again. I have never had a problem at any retail store before and now I've been treated badly twice at the same place. Two of my friends have passed up buying pieces of equipment at the same store because they were treated like they didn't want their business. I would miss the store if it closed but I'm totally amazed at the way they are treating their customers. My experience has been that most woodworkers are a friendly lot and you think a good place to shop would reflect that. Just makes me wonder how long a place like that can last. Enough said.
They keep turning over the staff in the Twin cities store. At one time I think it was company owned, but now I think it is franchised -- and seems to change hands every few years. And everytime the store changes hands, all the old staffers are thrown out -- so there is no continuity.
Met the most recent buyer a few months ago and thought he was a semi-jerk -- and he seems to hire people in his own image.
Let's face it, any franchise is going to take on the tone of its owner. We have a Woodcraft in our area that started as a franchise, the owner is very nice and he hires semi-capable people, some nicer than others. But lets face it, the owner is trying to find people to work in a retail environment for not a lot of money so he/we gets what he pays for. I think Woodcraft starts a lot of stores as "company" stores in markets(cities) they think will work and then tries to sell the franchise. Sometimes they are right and other times they are wrong and the owner/franchise purchaser either makes it or doesn't like any small business owner.
I love my Woodcraft store for being here; I use them a lot. However, the problems I hear you mention in the Twin Cities is probably characteristic of many franchise operations including Woodcraft. I always hope our Woodcraft owner is making money because if he isn't , we lose the source.
I think very long and hard before I bash anybody.. I realize all of my own faults and short comings and put my complaints in light of those facts..
I've since done a great deal of busines with my local Rocklers store and they too have some of the problems and shortcomings that everystore that hires low wage workers. However the differance between Woodcrafters and Rocklers is night and day.. (remember I'd already spent well over a thousand dollars at Woodcrafters with many thousands more to come)
In the end the part that was most unforgiveable is their arrogance.. A measure of superiority that I simply find intolerable..
A while back I shared a story here in one of the threads about a store (I didn't identify it at the time, but it was a Woodcraft franchise store) that had gone downhill in customer service, staff moral, store layout and a couple of other things. Shortly after that, the store was bought by another owner and I'm very happy to say it's a whole new ballgame. The inventory is up, the staff is animated and enthusiastic and the new boss is an experienced woodworker who cares as much about your project as he does selling you something. When this was a company-owned store it was a lot more even and service oriented than it became with the first franchisee. It's back now and you can tell in many ways including the customer traffic. I think this whole franchise concept for woodworking stores can lead to a lot of individual store variation no matter how stable and well managed the parent company is. This is in contrast to a fast-food concept where, say, the newbie can be brought up to speed with a few days training and a franchisee manual compared with woodworking where there are a tone of variables in addition to the basics of hiring, firing, cost control, etc. I don't know how much Woodcraft hand-holding there is for new owners, but I don't how it could make up for shortcomings in woodworking knowledge. Hopefully, a successful store will surface in time at every location.
I find the Woodcraft store in Richmond, Virginia to be staffed by very knowledgeable and helpful people. The ownership seems to be stable. I hope they continue to make a go of it, because I would hate to lose them.
Be grateful that you have stores to visit. Here in central New Jersey all we had was Woodworkers Wharehouse; and of course now there are gone. We are left with the catalogs and the internet or a very very long drive out of state if we want to see something before we buy it.
Jack
Jack,
I feel your pain, as long time past resident of the great Garden State it was a vast wasteland after WW closed, mail order or very long drive it was.
Transplanted here in Charlotte NC it's like a woodworker haven, we have a Woodcraft and a Klingspor, both of which seem to be staffed with nice enough folks. I visited a Woodcraft on a business trip in Colorado Springs Co, folks there were nice and helpful, guess it depends on the personality of the franchisee..
"Personality of the franchisee" is a great point. Rockler and Woodcraft would both benefit greatly from paying a lot more attention to the business/retail philosophy of the people they sell franchises to. They should also send out random CSI surveys(which are independantly counted). I think there would be a lot of changes after this, either by modifying staffing behavior/customer service quality or franchisee changes. Either way, the unhappy customers would win and the happy ones would get even more of what they already have.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I agree with the comments about the storefront taking on the personality characteristics of the franchise owners. I visit that Woodcraft in Charlotte, NC when I'm visiting my folks in that city - it is a customer-oriented operation. Better than the Woodcraft in Birmingham, AL which I've visited when I've been out thataway. The one in B'Ham is a place where I feel patronised.
Is the manager's name Carl?
I'll admit that I have faults,and a least according to my wife, everything I say and everything I do(well almost everything) When I make something for her I'm ok by her! I travel 125 miles to the store in question (detroit) and it is the feeling almost from the time I get there. I was having a problem with the Tried and True oil finish and one of the employees took the sample back to the shop rubbed half of the block off mumbled something to me and turned and waited on another customer. That cutomer treatment no one should have to put up with. Thanks for your response.
there is a newly opened Woodcraft in San Carlos (CA) that impresses me with their attention to details re customer service. I've been buying more from the store in the hopes that the economics work out for them, and so far the prices are more-or-less competitive to online merchants. But I have to say that I really like the personal approach to the way they do busines.
There is a store in Manchester, Ct that i go to on occassion. Every time i do i get frustrated. No one knows the products. They have no knowledge of how equipment works, what the differences are between different brands and when i approached the manager he said they didn't have time to learn about the products. Plus, they just won't meet a competative price. So, i just purchased a drill press, band saw and a scroll saw and never went back to them for any of them. It is a store that will go the way of Woodworkers Warehouse.
It's almost impossible for a brick-and-mortar tool dealer to match internet prices and stay alive. The economics simply don't work. That's no excuse, however, for them not hiring and training knowledgeable salespeople.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I agree, it's hard to compete solely on price and they need to compete by offering good customer service. If you can find it. I went to Rockler and Woodcraft on Saturday afternoon. I'm still disappointed in both places. They almost never have the answers to my questions and take forever to come over to ask if I need anything. Not that I expect to be carried around the place but when I'm looking at something in a particular area, should I need to go to them and then back to where I was? It's different if they can't get out from behind the counter but when they're just standing and talking,... One time at Rockler, they were having a bitchfest behind the counter about some new policy they didn't like. This time, they were talking about:
"They better have pizza at the meeting this time."
"What meeting?"
"Tuesday night."
"When was that announced?"
"@#^%#$&@!"As a customer, this isn't what I want to hear. If I worked there, I wouldn't want to hear it, either. Because of this, if I want to get info on something, I look it up online. If it's specifically woodworking, I come here to Knots or the other threads. Then, I can make a decision on what will work best for the application and go out to buy it at the best price, no matter where that may be. Lately, that's been online.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
i completely agaree. i have the fortune of having an equipment dealer near me and a fantastic wood supplier near me. They carry all kinds of wood, except pine. I am making some kitchen cabinets now and i am trying to decide on which type of wood to use. i saw some from birdseye maple and they were beautiful, but my wife is going to make the choice, i only build them. :)
There's a newly opened WoodCraft in Greenville SC and I was impressed with the husband and wife team who are owners. They have another in Ohio or Indiana? Anyway, they treat their customers warmly and thank you for shopping. It's a 90 minute drive from Horse Shoe, but I'll go back.
Roy
My two loves in life are music and woodworking. I've played guitar for 20 years, built furniture for 4 years, and i can say that no woodworking store i have ever been in compares to most of the music stores that are out there. (and i've been to the twin cities store and know who you are talking about)
I honestly believe that guitarist are the most egocentric social group on the planet. and those that work in music stores for minimum wage feel an increased need to make others feel like they are less then them.
That being said, i also have a list of shortcomings a mile long,
my point? i have no idea.
California huh! Send some of those people here. I travel 125 miles to this store and I really like to feel that I'm at least important and valued as a customer. After all I always have few dollars to spend now and again! I gotta tell you, when I was in my teens I always wanted to move to Calif. I didn't but my sister did. Don't seem fair. Thanks for responding.
I'd like to broaden this discussion by slamming Woodcraft on-line as well.
I requested a catalog from them after using the web site a few times--they offered a $10 off coupon if you ordered the catalog. The $10 seemed like enough to offset the higher prices Woodcraft charges relative to other suppliers.
Bad omen #1: the catalog took 3 months to arrive.
Bad omen #2: the discount coupon was good for about 15 days.
Last straw: I went to the web site to place an order, and saw they had a special for father's day that if you bought $X worth of stuff, you got free shipping. Cool. Then I found out you couldn't use the $10 and get free shipping.
Woodcraft no longer gets any of my business. Why pay extra for the hassle and frustration? They don't have an exclusive on anything, so good luck to them competing with others.
I wondered a few moments ago, What if a few unhappy customers were able to open a store? I'll bet that customers would be lined up outside the store to get in. Even if you are not the most knowledgeable woodworker most sales ought to be able carry on a least a reasonably friendly conversation with any customer. Thanks for responding. Bob
Interesting - I did not realize the phenomena was national. We had a Woodcraft in Deerfield Beach, Florida and they too (often) had that attitude of superiority and "can't be bothered with your stupid issues". Seemed like if I was not purchasing something very expensive, they did not want to see me in the store. Maybe I spent too many hour ogling, but who can help that? They went out of business after a year or so and I had great fun with their going OOB sale (serious bargains). The local Constantines was like night and day - just an environment of welcome and friendliness. A new Woodcraft store opened in Pompano Beach, and the personnel are friendlier. Salesman recently took much time to discuss use of dyes with me. Another time an employee heard me saying that I needed walnut dust to mix for filler, and he took me into the shop area and gave me a bag full of dust from the vac since he had just cut walnut. Nice touches and eased my soreness from the past experience. I'll keep going despite their prices.
I drive 125 miles to the store in Detroit so I don't go all that often but when I do I like to feel welcomed. I bought a quart of the Tried and True finish and applied it to a test block and it just would not dry. I put the block aside for a couple of weeks. I checked it and the sawdust from the shop settled on it and clumped up and hardened into a non-skid finish. I made the trip to the store and a retired shop teacher waited on me. He took the sample to there shop and rubbed off half the sample and handed the piece back to me mumbled something to me,shrugged his shoulders and turned and waited on another customer. I'll still go down occasionally if for no other reason to see if the attitude has changed. Thanks for responding. Bob
I live in St. Louis and have access close by to both Rockler and Woodcraft. The store manager at Woodcraft is arrogant and gives the feeling you are lucky to be in his store. Some of the workers are like this, a few aren't. I gravitate to the few that aren't if I need any help. I do not like the shopping experience there.
It is just the opposite at the Rockler store. The manager is very nice and so are all the workers. The manager has more than once given me a 10% discount off my shopping bill for buying more than $200 worth of supplies at a time. He says "when you purchase that much, I consider it a quantity purchase and will gladly give the discount." I never expect this, and it nearly knocks my socks off each time. One time, they had a sale on the older Jet mini-lathes. They were clearing out their stock to make room for the newer model. I really wanted the bed extension with mine, which the older model didn't accomodate. The manager gave me the new model at the sale price so I could get the extension. This saved me almost $100.
I do shop a lot at both stores. Woodcraft has stuff that the Rockler store just doesn't carry. I have bought several Lie-Nielsen items from them. However, I have never been given a special deal or discount at the Woodcraft store. When comparison shopping similar items, the Woodcraft store is generally more expensive than Rockler.
Although I would hate to see either store go out of business, I always gravitate to the Rockler store for special orders. I would rather give them my money. Most of my woodworking equipment has come from Rockler. This includes Jet jointer, 18" bs, dust collector, air cleaner, and 14" lathe, PC routers, and Delta drill press. This is my stick it in your face reply to Woodcraft for their sucky customer relations.
Edited 1/17/2005 1:20 pm ET by RThomas
Thanks for your reply. My daughter lives in the Twin cities and the 2 stores you mention are on the same street and several miles apart. The folks a Rockler were helpful and the Woodcraft store store was at the other end of the spectrum. Say, I'll bet if someone were to get a few unhappy customers to run a store they'd have customers lined up outside the doors! I wonder if the CEO of woodcraft reads any of this stuff or has the time to go to some of the stores to get a feel for how his customers are being treated. Thanks again,Bob.
The WoodCraft store here in Roanoke is great. Helpful, knowledgeable folks whenever I've been in there.
Can you send some of them out here?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
The gentleman from California said the same thing. Thats great. I'll still go down to Detriot(125 mile trip). Who knows, maybe ownership might have changed hands. Thanks for responding. Bob
Bob
I've been to the same store on VanDyke & 16-1/2 Mile a few times and am also not real impressed. For me it's about a 35 minute drive, so given that the shopping experience aint all that great, there's got to be some darn compelling sale going on for me to bother going there anymore. What this means for the Woodcraft parent corp. is that they end up getting almost no business from me. Doing mail order with them is prohibitive since in addition to the shipping charges, you're assessed the 6% state sales tax they have to charge since they have a retail outlet in the state they're shipping to.
I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.
Hey thanks for responding to the woodcraft experience! I have about 125 mile trip to the store so I don't get there very often but I feel like I should have some value to them. I bought some Tried and True oil finish and had the problem of the stuff not drying, in fact, I got frustrated with it and set the test piece aside for a couple of weeks and checked it and the sawdust that accumulated had pulled oil out of the piece and hardened. Shortly after that I went down to the store and the elderly white haired gentleman (a retired shop teacher I was told by an employee) took the piece to the back room and rubbed off half of the block and mumbled something and handed it back. I used the finish on a paper towel holder for my daughter and it has been drying for 3/4 days now and when I hold my finger on the piece oil bleeds out. So far I don't really like the finish. But I have a quart so I'll keep trying to find out what is going on with it. Thanks again for your response.
I used to go to a Woodcraft store in Woburn, MA and found the salespeople there to be arrogant as well. Now I go to a Rockler in Salem, NH and one in Danvers, MA and find the workers there more helpful and friendly. I always felt that they felt I was a nuisance at the Woodcraft store if I wasn't looking at one of their table saws or mortising machines. It is amazing that there are so many more people that have experienced similar experiences in other parts of the country with Woodcraft. I will never again purchase anything from Woodcraft at a bricks and mortar store or over the internet.
Regards,
Buzzsaw
I wonder if the ceo of woodcraft reads any of this stuff? I travel 125 miles to the detroit store and when I visit my daughter in the Twin cities thats a 12 hour car ride and get treated the same way. What keeps them in business I'll never know. See you later!
I've read a whole pile of responses about woodcraft staff. I'd like to register another complaint. There are just too many drooling woodworkers roaming around the Sacramento store! Everywhere glazed eyed tool fiends reaching for tools and wood, dripping saliva all over the floor like Pavlov's dogs. Makes things really slippery!
Seriously, the store in Sac is OK, the people that run it are mostly retired folks with bad pensions (get ready folks, retirement is fading fast!). They're in woodcraft because they really like wood and tools and are likely to talk your head off. My biggest complaint is that Pfiel just can't make their chisels and carving tools fast enough!
However, I usually shop at Western tool, Sacramento machinery, or online at anyone of a number of businesses simply because the Sac woodcraft is 45 minutes to an hour of the worst knucle biting traffic away. As are all of the Sacramento hardwood suppliers.
Lucky me!
Woodcraft is 1.5 miles from my house. The staff is friendly, cheerful and will admit when they don't know something but will go out of their way to find an answer. Store is bright, clean and usually well stocked.I can spend time browsing books, magazines, fondle tools, ask questions and never feel out of place.telemiketoo - "retirement is fading fast" in CALIFORNIA! 2 months after leaving that black hole I bought a house for cash and have lots of dollars left over after my SS check each month. You want to retire? Leave CA. They will suck you dry into and beyond the grave.
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