Replies

1. 
   hammer1 | Dec 11, 2005 05:20am | #1

   When I do a complicated glue up, I clamp it up dry, to a certain extent, so all my clamps are set up and ready. Titebond makes Extend glue that will give you some extra time, it's a little runny. Liquid hide glue and Scotch glue also have more open time. With some assemblies, you might be better to only clamp up a portion at a time. If a joint will depend on glue for it's strength, I think you should pay as close attention to the glue application as you do the joinery. Getting good coverage, sizing end grain and eliminating messy squeeze out is important to me. I don't try to accomplish the impossible.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match

1. 
   byhammerandhand | Dec 14, 2005 05:31am | #4

   For complicated glue ups, I like to use good old white glue for its closed time and lack of "grab." I can't see paying three times as much for "extended" glue when this works just as well. I think the last bottle of Titebond white that I got was $1.57 for 8 oz at Lowe's. I also use liquid hide glue for some repair applications when there's already hide glue there. It, like the prior poster said, has extended time also.Another strategy is to glue up sections at a time, when your design allows.

   Edited 12/13/2005 9:34 pm ET by byhammerandhand

2. 
   Pondfish | Dec 11, 2005 04:22pm | #2

   Hide glue and polyurethane glues both have longer open times than PVA glue.  Hide glue isn't as strong (but probably fine for a F/P M/T assembly like yours; poyurethane is strong but messy, although it cleans up OK.  Neither glue is strong across a large gap, so be sure your M/T joints are good. 

   You may already know this, but do a dry assembly first to ensure all goes OK.  Just don't do it too many times or you will loosen the M/T joints.

   Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
1. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 15, 2005 03:43pm | #7

   Just a note.  Everyone seems to think that hide glue isn't as strong as other common woodworking glue; you are not alone.  However, the Titebond people give data that show bond strength for Titebond Liquid Hide Glue (3,591 lb. per square inch, versus 3,500+ psi for Polyurethane.  The hide glue also fairs better after spending overnight at 150° F.  with 3,207 psi versus 3,000+ for polyurethane.  Interestingly, regular yellow Titebond is a bit stronger with 3,600 psi at room temperature, but strength falls off more after being heated, to 1,600 psi.

   The Achilles heel of liquid hide glue is water, making it less than wonderful for exterior uses, but not a problem for furniture in most situations.  Hot hide glue is stronger than liquid hide glue, probably making it stronger than most of the commonly available wood glues.  But you have to really heat up the room to have a long open time for hot hide glue. 

1. 
   Pondfish | Dec 15, 2005 06:04pm | #8

   I'm surprised by those bond strength numbers!  But how does that transform into shear strength? 

   On the Titebond hide glue bottle is a warning "Not for structural or load bearing applications."  You don't get this warning on Titebond PVA or Titebond urethane glue bottles.  This suggests to me that the Titebond people seem to think that hide glue isn't that strong, either! 

   Is the Titebond info on their web site?  I'm always curious to learn more about the materials I work with every day--thanks for pointing out this bit of news.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 16, 2005 04:36am | #9

   Yes, this is on their web site http://www.titebond.com.  Incidentally, a similar "not for structural use "warning does appear in the product description for the Titebond polyurethane. 

   Fraid I don't know how the bond strength test is done. 

   The other interesting thing on the web site is the clamping instructions.  Hardwoods are to be clamped with 175 - 200 psi.  If you work that out you can see that by that standard it is almost impossible to over tighten clamps.

2. 
   giametti | Dec 20, 2005 03:57pm | #10

   The disclaimer against structural or load bearing use applies to building up beams for buildings, where water resistance would be a factor. I wouldn't use any hide glue there, as I wouldn't use anything that didn't have great water resistance. It has nothing to do with strength.
   Any glue that is "stronger than the wood itself" will be adequate for furniture construction. Hide glue definitely is that. The liquid hide glue sold by Franklin has additives for extended time that weaken it somewhat over hot hide glue. Hot hide glue is VERY strong. (There is a craft where hide glue is applied to glass, and the contraction of the glue as it dries pulls chips from the glass.) It also allows repair and reassembly after days or centuries.
   Another glue to consider is urea-formaldihyde glue, like Unibond 800. Very strong, good open time, moisture resistant, friendly to finishes, and zero creep. But any glue, from white Elmer's, to liquid hide glue will be adequate for what you're needing.Jim Eddy

   [URL=http://www.jameseddywoodworks.com]James Eddy Woodworks[/URL]

1. 
   Dunwright | Dec 26, 2005 12:30am | #11

   As an aside to the original post, but on the topic of glue.After painfully disposing of three, 8 oz., half full, set-up bottles of Gorilla Glue, I am trying something to extend shelf life.Currently, I have a thrice used 4 oz. bottle secured in a Tilia Food Saver canister. The capped bottle just fits in their 25 oz. canister. The vacuumed canister is sitting on a LR bookshelf until needed. I am at 10 weeks and counting. It was viable when used earlier this morning.If this approach works, there are taller vacuum canisters to accept the 8 oz. bottle. Locally, the 4 0z. bottle is a $2.00/Oz.; while the 8 oz. is like $1.10/Oz..Arlington, Texas (The dash in Dallas-Fort Worth)
   Practice...'till you can do it right the first time.

3. 
   BG | Dec 13, 2005 03:14pm | #3

   Sambop,
   For numerous M&T glue-ups, I really like two part epoxy with a 30 minute open time. It fills the gaps in the mortise too.
   In the pre-glue setup, make sure you've provided a way to insure everything is flat and square with the clamps on...

4. 
   YesIWood | Dec 14, 2005 08:50am | #5

   Sambop,

     I ran across this link.  http://www.djmarks.com/stories/faq/3_where_can_i_get_the_slowsetting_plastic_resin_glue_you_often_use_on_the_46688.asp

   I hope it helps.

   Joe

   Is it really saw dust or wood dust?

1. 
   sambop | Dec 14, 2005 03:44pm | #6

   Thanks for the tips everyone. I'll have to review all these options and decide which is best for my project and sanity.
   Mark

5. 
   Eef | Feb 02, 2010 02:21pm | #12

   just curious, but why is there a five year old discussion and no new input?

   eef

1. 
   Westchester | Feb 02, 2010 02:49pm | #13

   They are working out the bugs -

   SA

2. 
   RalphBarker | Feb 03, 2010 01:34am | #14

   It appears that when someone posts a new thread with exactly the same topic description, a bug in the software or indexing brings the old topic to the surface, supplanting the new thread.

1. 
   Eef | Feb 03, 2010 10:51am | #15

   ...parasitic zombie threads?

   eef

1. 
   RalphBarker | Feb 03, 2010 11:03am | #16

   Yep, board the windows! It's
   Yep, board the windows! It's the Night of the Living Dead Threads! ;-)

1. 
   Eef | Feb 03, 2010 03:57pm | #17

   so ralph, you like zombie movies? i do but they have to be really well done.

   try "dead snow". norwegian flick. the zombies are all nazis. it's a hoot.

   eef