Replies

1. 
   SgianDubh | Feb 06, 2004 04:33am | #1

   Something dry, about 25 mm plus square to allow air circulation, and a wood not likely to cause sticker stain such as a tannin rich species like oak. Dry pine of some sort is excellent in my experience, and for me a second choice is poplar. Dry maple and sycamore sticks are prone to developing mould if they get wet, and the blue/grey stain from the mould developed could transfer to your planks which still have free water in the fibres. Slainte.

   Website

1. 
   Scrit | Feb 06, 2004 03:58pm | #4

   Sgian

   Sycamore is one of those timbers which marks very easily in initial drying, hence the traditional approach of end rearing to reduce the pressure on the spacer sticks. I've been talking to John Boddy's recently who've told me that they now stick sycamore conventionally with 1in square plastic sticks - either nylon or 350/500 grade HDPE (High density polyethylene = UHMW plastic).

   Like you I've had success with poplar and pine sticks - it's where some of my offcuts go to

   Scrit

2. 
   LeeGrindinger | Feb 06, 2004 07:06am | #2

   Alder would be perfectly acceptable and considering your location it would probably be the cheapest.

   Lee

3. 
   fdampier5 | Feb 06, 2004 08:44am | #3

   Depends really on the wood that is being dried.. 

     Oak?  use the edgings that come off the boards.. Oak is pretty tough and it doesn't sticker stain easily..

     Cherry?

     just about anything, I like cherry edgings since they are right there,  gonna be thrown away anyhow and should cost next to nothing or nothing..

     Maple?

     heaven help you

        dry white wood, preferably dry (less than10% moisture) maple.. pine can and has stained, poplar might work too if it's dry enough.  don't use any wood with a high tannic acid (oak or walnut)   or any wood with any color or sap..

      Walnut? 

     just about any wood. edgings are good, cheap and maybe you can use them for something once the wood is dried..

        Edgings

         those are the pieces with wane that are normally cut off to make square boards.  make sure there isn't any bark on them  (hold bugs, dirt, and stuff that goes bump in the night)  if the boards are 4/4 then set the edgings so the flat 4/4 side is between boards and it doesn't really matter if the edgings are one inch thick or three.  because I'm anal I set the cut edge facing one way with the wanes the opposite.  then when I line up each level of stickers I referance the cut edge and let the width wind up whatever..

1. 
   forestgirl | Feb 06, 2004 09:11pm | #6

   Thank you all for the fast and helpful answers.

   Richard:  I'm glad you mentioned the mold potential of maple.  Those maple scraps in the bin will stay put.

   Frenchy:  Great and helpful detail there.  The "Maple?  Heaven help you." was a little discouraging, LOL!  I'm prepping to cut and dry spalted maple!  And it is wet.  Uh oh, well will just do my best.  I appreciate the tips on specific types of wood.

   Scrit:  What is "end rearing?"  Also, Grizzly sells manufactured stickers from Woodstock, Inc., made of "composite" (no details given).  Do you have any idea what they're made of?  Here's the catlog picture:  http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=H3020Thought maybe if they're just cut down from one of those man-made decking materials, I could cut my own much cheaper.

   JD:  I fear I must disagree that the species of the stickers makes no difference.  The stickers are part of the interaction that produces sticker stain.  I had already planned to stay away from oak and ash.  Thanks for the reminder about WoodWeb -- I have them bookmarked, but don't always remember to check there.

   Thanks again guys!forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

1. 
   YvesG | Feb 06, 2004 09:19pm | #7

   Forestgirl,

    

   I am curious about spalted maple. On my property, there is a very sugar bush just behind the house. some of those maples are very old. Is spalted maple come from old (read almost dead) maple or from logs that have been laying down in a particularly wet environment for some time?

    

   Best regards

    

   Yves

1. 
   forestgirl | Feb 07, 2004 02:20am | #9

   Spalting is caused by fungi doing their magic in the wood.  I guess maple is the most common -- it seems to be able to develop nice spalting before going so far to decomposition that it's not usable.

   The log I'm cutting up has been down for 2 or 3 years, and since I'm in W. Washington, it's always wet here, LOL.  I don't know whether standing, nearly dead maple, would be potentially spalted or not.  Less likely, I'm sure.

   Here's another thread on spalted maple that has quite a bit of good info in it:http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages?msg=13882.1

   forestgirl Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)  you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)

1. 
   YvesG | Feb 07, 2004 05:29am | #10

   Indeed, very interesting thread! Those bowls made by Clay are simply wonderful! Thanks Forestgirl. I was planning to have one of the old maples cut next winter (I'll be busy enough with the cherry this wither) but next winter I'll definitely have one maple cut and save few big limbs to try some home made spalting.

    

   Elsewhere on the lad, there is a pretty wet area. I wonder what would happen if I drop few pieces here and there in that area for the summer.

    

   In the mean time I will try to do more research on the subject

    

   Best regards

    

   Yves

2. 
   jonsherryl | Feb 07, 2004 08:59pm | #11

   Yves, since the mold spores that cause wood to decay are everywhere in the atmosphere, location is pretty much irrelevant, i.e., standing dead trees, downed logs, in or outside of a building, etc. What really matters are the immediate environmental conditions the wood is exposed to.

   Unless some inhibiting chemical is present in the form of one of the wood's natural extractives, or something that has been introduced to the wood that is antiseptic (as in treated lumber), wood will begin to decay if the environment it is in is conducive to mold metabolism. A conducive environment is any environment that contains free oxygen, adequate moisture and is at a temperature which is within the metabolic range of the mold.

   While each mold differs slightly in terms of its metabolic requirements, generally an environment with the following two attributes allows decay to occur:

   -Temperatures above freezing but below about 110 degrees F. (Most molds are most active in the range of about 70 F to 90 F)

   -Adequate moisture to keep the wood at an Equilibrium Moisture Content in a range that is above 20%, to slightly above the wood's Fiber Saturation Point, which is usually in the area of about  26%MC to 30%MC. (MCs below 20% don't provide enough needed moisture for mold metabolism, while MCs much above the fiber saturation point begin to exclude free oxygen from the wood by flooding the cell cavities.)

   ---

   As this relates to stickers, I use maple all the time and consider it one of the better species for this purpose. The fact that it has very low decay resistance isn't all that relevant. I suppose, if the maple contained any pre-existing spalt, it might help to innoculate the lumber being dried, but the spores required to do this are present in the atmosphere anyway. Only the chemistry of the wood being dried will inhibit, or enhance the development of mold, once the right physical conditions of moisture, oxygen and moderate temperature are present...So, the key is to change the environment as soon as possible to one that is not conducive to mold metabolism. In other words, use thoroughly dry stickers, so that they don't contribute moisture to the situation and maintain adequate air flow to keep the surface of the drying wood from remaining above 20%MC.

   On the plus side, maple is a very friendly wood in terms of its rather bland chemistry (that's one of the reasons it decays so easily)...but it also doesn't introduce much in the way of extractives (acids like tannin, for example) or pigments that might cause chemical stains. Also, because it is a relatively dense wood, maple stickers hold up well.

   I suppose, if you wanted to be a purist, using only kiln dried stickers of the same species as the wood being dried would be a safe strategy...since it introduces no additional variables into the situation. But I certainly don't think it ranks as a necessity.     

   Edited 2/7/2004 1:17:27 PM ET by Jon Arno

3. 
   YvesG | Feb 08, 2004 05:33pm | #12

   Wow!

   Thanks Jon, for the info. I will make sure the maple I will have cut is big enough to supply lots of big enough limb to experiment on how long should I leave the log in the damp for nice spalting.

   Thanks again.

   Yves

2. 
   jjf | Feb 06, 2004 09:39pm | #8

   The only concern about species would be oaks if there is any iron around.  The species of wood does not effect the drying or discoloration of the wood .  The important thing is to have stickers dried to about 8-10%.  Drier may cause sticker shadow, wetter may casue sticker stain.  They also should be clean - no dirt or preexisting mold.  If the lumber is dense like oak low density species stickers will become crushed if the stack if high.

4. 
   jdbutler999 | Feb 06, 2004 04:41pm | #5

   From my own personal experience and from listening and reading the experts on this subject, I don't believe it makes any difference what species is used.  It is best if it is dry though.  Sticker stain doesn't come from the stickers, rather it comes ca chemical process believed to be the differential oxidation rate of the sugars in the wood.  Go to the Woodweb.com and select the sawing and drying forum, then do a search for "sticker" and you will likely find all you ever wanted to know, and them some.