Replies

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Sep 15, 2002 04:54am | #1

   Ruth, welcome to the forum!  For outdoor applications (I hope you're not using that noxious stuff indoors) it's best to get it in place ASAP.  If not, it will twist beyond belief.  I suppose it would be possible to sticker it, weight it down and let it dry for a year, but I'll bet it still would twist.

   BTW, use screws; it won't hold a nail.

   Jeff

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Sep 15, 2002 05:59am | #2

   Ruth:

      I just agreed with JeffK in another thread. I will again all the way. Don't use it inside. Be careful cutting the wet stuff. I assume your using a skil-saw and this if for outside use. If you've got a lot of it, clean the blade ever so often as the wet stuff is kinda un-predictable.

      BTW, again assuming you're using it ouside, don't put any finish on it for at least 6 months to a year if you're gonna finish it at all. Let it dry a while after you've assembled it with screws, as Jeff mentioned..

   Good luck and welcome..

   sarge..jt

3. 
   forestgirl | Sep 15, 2002 07:14am | #3

   In addition to everything said above, be sure to use a tight-fitting dust mask.  Dust yourself off well before going back into the house.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

4. 
   Splintie | Sep 15, 2002 09:51am | #4

   Hi, Ruth.

   Get it fastened to whatever before it has a chance to dry/warp (same thing). I use screws on the stuff because it will pull nails when it twists. Use deck screws--like drywall screws, but heavier and better. Don't worry about shrinkage in length--this is negligible in any situation where PT lumber would reasonably be used--it's width that will change the most, though it may not be as noticeable in a 2x2. In 2x6 or 2x8 deck boards, you can lose entire zucchinis through them by the end of summer if wet wood was spaced too far apart in a spring installation.

   Cut ends should be treated with the appropriate preservative brushed on or--better--the ends stood in a bucket of the stuff. The treatment is only on the outside 1/4" or so, usually aided by piercing the surface. 

   As to safety--i know of three treatment solutions in which it's available, a solution of .25 (means a quarter pound of preservatiuve per cubic foot) for moist and above ground use, .40 for ground contact, and .60 used for PT wood foundations for houses. Use a mask when you cut it bec wood dust itself is harmful, let alone the chemicals. Don't lick your hands after handling it--the great turmoil over arsenate-treated woods is mostly due to worries about the levels kids get from PT playground equipment transferred with dirty hands to their mouths). If you have scrap, burying not burning is recommended.

   I framed a PT wood foundation for my house a couple years ago with both dimensional stock and ply. I had no bad reactions to using it.  

1. 
   RuthWells | Sep 16, 2002 04:43am | #10

   Hi Splintie,

   Thanks for all the great info.  I'm using the lumber to build a seed-starting rack (see my post to Dale) and will be attaching the 2x2 mostly to other 2x2.  I was planning to use deck screws, so glad for that validation.  However -- after reading everyone's posts, I'm really concerned about warping.  Particularly since I'm not attaching the sticks to anything particularly strong.  Any thoughts?TIA!

   Ruth Wells

1. 
   UncleDunc | Sep 16, 2002 07:24am | #13

   Once it's dried, PT lumber doesn't sit there spewing arsenic into the air. I haven't seen evidence of any risk of absorbing arsenic through the skin, given the amounts you would be likely to pick up by casually touching the rack. If you wash your hands after touching it, which you would probably do after handling seed flats anyway, I don't see any point in hyperventilating about having PT lumber in the house, after it dries.

   Now if there are little kids in the house who might be touching the rack and then touching their mouths, then yes, that would not be good. And I also agree with the need for care while cutting and assembling the rack. Anything that causes an allergic reaction is good to avoid, whether or not you're likely to get heavy metal poisoning from it.

1. 
   RuthWells | Sep 16, 2002 04:31pm | #17

   Uncle Dunc,

   Thanks for the mitigating opinion.  My guess is that since this item will be in an unfinished, underused basement, safety is probably not compromised.

   Ruth Wells

2. 
   Splintie | Sep 16, 2002 07:52am | #14

   Seed starting rack? Well, i go for overkill as a matter of policy, but the amount of damp this will see for six weeks every spring is negligible.

   I noticed 2x2 clear redwood balusters for deck stair rails on my last sashay through Home Depot. I don't know the cost--clear redwood in Montana is sky-high, but it was eminently reasonable when i used to live in CA. Perhaps cedar is the local wood where you are...? These two woods are quite soft and might not require predrilling unless you were fixing the pieces near their ends, but oak or other hard woods you would have to drill first. Their decay resistance is quite sufficient for your use.

   Anyway, places that sell deck material often have ready-made balusters in your 2x2 size. You may not get them very long, though, which would require using 2x4 material on the corners unless you have a way to rip them. I don' usually see as good of material in 2x4,so ripping might not leave you good enough stock. Lots of places will cross cut for you, oftimes for free if only a couple cuts, small charge for more than that, but they usually don't want to get involved with ripping because of safety and dust. Wood dust of any variety can be a carcinogen and some folks are especially sensitive to the cedars, redwoods, etc.

   Just to confuse the issue, the last Teksupply catalog i got had a dandy plastic seed starting rack for probably less than the wood would cost you, and you can get one with a zippered plastic cover for it to make a mini-greenhouse, very reasonably.

1. 
   RuthWells | Sep 16, 2002 04:33pm | #18

   Splintie,

   I would love to find cedar.  Unfortunately, no one's got it in stock.  I did my research, and the only 2x2's I could find in my area were the PT's at Home Depot.  I need alot of pieces, and the thought of that much ripping was not appealing to me... so, I'm going to muddle ahead, for now.  Thanks for all the great info!

   Ruth Wells

5. 
   RW | Sep 15, 2002 05:41pm | #5

   Concur - let it sit and warp city. DK about the not using indoors. That depends on why you bought it. Around here code reqires CCA (or other) for sills in contact with concrete, at which point nails are acceptable, though that form of fastening would come from a Hilti gun. If you're framing for a basement wall, for instance, lay out a large line of PL400 or other structural adhesive on the floor, lay the sill down, and shoot it into the concrete. The nails primarily keep it from sliding around until the adhesive sets. That's legal for interior walls. Exterior (our codes) have to have more substantial fasteners such as lags.

6. 
   Dale | Sep 15, 2002 09:36pm | #6

   Hi Ruth,

   Could you inform us what you are planing on using this CCA  treated lumber for?

1. 
   RuthWells | Sep 16, 2002 03:34am | #7

   Dale, and everyone,

   Wow.  Thanks for all the info.  I am aware that care must be used when working with PT wood, but y'all just scared me a bit.  I was planning to use the lumber to build a seed-starting rack -- very much for indoor use (though in an unfinished basement, so not very heavily travelled except to do laundry).  Do you all see this as a problem? 

   Just to save a little face here -- I didn't intend to buy PT wood, but my design calls for 2x2's, and I literally couldn't find them in any other flavor.  Guess I should have bit the bullet and ripped 'em myself, huh?

   Ruth Wells

1. 
   Dale | Sep 16, 2002 04:00am | #8

   If I understand a seed starting rack.  It's a box to hold moist soil in??  If that's the case go ahead and build the sucker.  The only time I had noticable problems with CCA was when I was sanding some treated lumber prior to Christmas, so I'm assuming I had the windows closed.  I got the skin rash on my fore arms.  Good luck........Dale

1. 
   RuthWells | Sep 16, 2002 04:38am | #9

   Dale,

   Thanks for the encouragement!  This will actually be a rack to hold plastic flats (trays) with moist soil & seeds therein.  Given that there will certainly be some mess-factor, I was trying to view the PT wood as a plus.  However, if it warps all to heck as the wood dries, I may end up with one very lopsided seed rack.  The thing is constructed entirely of 2x2's, except for the base, so there's no opportunity to force things into square once there out of it.

   Ruth Wells

2. 
   JeffKurtz | Sep 16, 2002 06:48am | #11

   Ruth,

   I can't emphasize it enough: keep that stuff out of the house!  For the type of rack you describe why not use white oak, teak, cedar, redwood?  These and so many others are quite rot resistant and won't poison the environment or the air in your house.

   Jeff

   BTW  In this neck of the woods pressure treated wood scraps have to be disposed of at a hazardous waste facility.

1. 
   RuthWells | Sep 16, 2002 04:27pm | #15

   Jeff,

   I called all my local lumberyards and noone had nothin'.  True story.  The only 2x2 I could find was the PT.

   :/

   Ruth Wells

7. 
   GTF | Sep 16, 2002 06:59am | #12

   You can buy and should buy a wood treatment for fresh PT wood.

   I can't recall the lastest product I've purchased at Home Depot but I recall using in the past Wollman Raincoat. There are a few good products out there.

   Why do you need it on PT wood? Because PT treating is for bugs not water. Check with any of the manuifactures. I have been using and recomending this for over 14 years to everybody I know. The ones who do treat there wood have good long results, the non-treaters all have twisted, split, ruined PT wood in a few years. BTW most of these products recommend that you apply them to fresh green PT wood.

   I also drill every hole for both bolts and nails to as to not cause undo damage to the wood. Thakes a little longer but the wood sure appricates it.

   GTF

1. 
   RuthWells | Sep 16, 2002 04:29pm | #16

   GTF,

   Thanks for the tip.  I don't expect this wood to be coming into contact with much water, though.  Is there any reason to treat other than waterproofing?And yes, I will certainly pre-drill my holes!

   Ruth Wells

1. 
   GTF | Sep 17, 2002 02:21am | #19

   But it will come in contact with water! Unless your installing it indoors. :-)

   Even rain water is enough to doin PT wood. And don't forget to water treat any cedar also. Being cedar is most often used as decking, don't forget to apply to the bottom of each board. For any railing I use Spar Varnish.

   For all the time, effert, and money I want my projects to last.

   GTF

1. 
   RuthWells | Sep 17, 2002 04:44am | #20

   GTF,

   This *is* actually an indoor project (long story -- see the rest of this thread!!).  Unless the finish would somehow inhibit the arsenic from escaping the wood, I'll be inclined to go au naturel.

   Thanks again!

   Ruth Wells

1. 
   bobhallsr | Sep 17, 2002 08:27am | #21

   I'll second what Uncledunc said. And I don't think that you 2x2s are going to twist to the point of destroying your construction unless you have trays sliding in and out with close tolerances.

   BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland

2. 
   RuthWells | Sep 17, 2002 04:36pm | #22

   Hi there, BJ!  Thanks for the corroboration.  I'm gonna start cuttin' wood later this week; it seems to be drying out nicely.  Wrong message board for this, I know, but it's all you fine folks over at Over the Fence who have inspired me to get serious about propigation.  Thanks for the support!

   Ruth Wells