Replies

1. 
   Ron_Teti | Dec 17, 2001 04:25am | #1

   *
   Try your local community college. The one here have everything from preapprenticeship classes in construction to furniture making and design. Dont be decieved. It will take time and time and more time. Some of the guys here have 20 plus years as professional furniture makers. but dont be discouraged either. I just dont want to have you get into something w/o seeing the whole picture. Do it for self is great but professionally there is alot more to it then being able to rip wood and glue it together. To tell ya the truth ive been fooling with wood actively for about 9 years or so i have another 7 years or so before i retire from my ft job and hope to get something going but even then i dont know if ill have enough experiance. just take it slow andy.

1. 
   PeterG | Dec 30, 2001 11:55pm | #2

   *As a professional starter of ventures (mostly software), let me share some ideas with you about starting your own business. The best thing you can do is figure out what you are trying to accomplish with your business. Are you trying to make a lot of money (this will require having employees, sales and marketing skills), make a modest living for yourself (some business skills still required, but less problems with employees) or just have a place to get nice feedback and place your work in the world (retirement hobby)? Once you answer this question, you can start to figure out what to learn about. Wood working skills might be less important than design and management skills if you are going for the big time.For example, I was down buying hardwood the other day and was talking to a fellow and his father. He runs a Oak wood working business (hat racks, boxes and other stuff out of wood). He was saying that he had people calling him 2 days before Christmas to order stuff, but he told them he just couldn't get it done in time. I asked him if he had considered gift certificates? He realized that he might have captured those sales if he offered them. He really isn't making hard stuff like chairs or Sam Maloof tables, so the wood working is pretty straight forward. It is about business sense, trying new things and adjusting to what the market is telling you.You might try reading "Inc." magazine for the next several years. Picking up some of the top selling business books on Business Weeks best seller list is a good sources.I have been reading the book about Sam Maloof that the Smithsonian published with his one man show (closes Jan 20, 2002 so hurry), he was an instant success after 15 or 20 years! He didn't start to make real money for the first 30 years! But he also did everything himself, only when he hired more helpers (this is my guess) did he start to make more money. So even for Sam, it is management of the help, marketing and sales that held him back, his creative side has always been great.My view is the best way to start a business is to turn off the TV for the next couple of years and do the hard work of figuring out the marketplace. Then look for the place you can succeed, with your skills and limitations. The real genius is finding the right place.Good luck.

1. 
   davamoore_ | Dec 31, 2001 06:16pm | #3

   *Andy --I'm not sure I have any direct answers for you, but thought I might make a couple of comments regarding skill development that might apply to your situation.As someone who is also trying to improve my woodworking ability (whether or not that turns into something professional down the road) while also earning enough money to keep food on the table and keep my significant other happy, I am constantly scouting around for new learning opportunities. To be honest, I've found that while there are dozens and dozens of "Intro to Woodworking" or "Woodworking Basics" courses offered all over the place in my area(s) -- Chicago and SW Michigan -- as you move up to an intermediate level and beyond, the less-formal opportunities start to shrink, pretty much leaving apprenticeships and formal education programs at universities and technical schools as the main choices -- both of which are generally 9-to-5 options.I'm considering pursuing an apprenticeship, but have ruled out the pursuit of a formal degree -- I've spent way too much time in school (and don't have the option of relocating right now). In the meantime I've been pursuing a third route: I've identified short classes (from a few hours to one or two weeks) offered by woodworking professionals who really know their stuff, limit class size, and are willing to adapt their lessons to the individual students in the class. (In other words, an advanced woodworker is just as likely to get his/her questions answered as the newby at the next workbench.)After the class, I come home and practice, practice, practice. If I made a table or toolbox in class, I make two or three at home using my own tools. Once with supervision is nice, but overcoming the "duh" and "oops" factors on your own is also quite valuable.Another option is to seek out woodworking clubs or crafts guilds in your area. Some groups attract people of all levels, others are somewhat exclusive... but if you get an opportunity to meet and speak with other woodworkers you'll gain contacts, inspiration and first-hand answers to questions. Maybe you're not interested in making birdhouses, but the person who built that birdhouse may know just the thing to keep wood from splitting in extreme temperatures, for example, something you might need to know down the road when asked to build a piece of outdoor furniture.I am aware of woodworking schools scattered across the country that offer various sorts of "master" (don't flame me here!) or intensive programs. I haven't attended any of them, but they might be an option for taking your skills beyond an intermediate level.Bottom-line, if you can't chuck it all and start woodworking from 9 to 5, you generally need to come up with your own educational program... and that takes a little ingenuity and, to be honest, a little bit of money. The classes I've referred to above aren't free... but they often make up their cost in the prevention of stupid mistakes that you may repeat on your own three times until you finally figure out a solution!Of course, word is that I don't know everything, so I'd be thrilled to hear others' ideas for skill improvement while holding down a "day" job.David

1. 
   davamoore_ | Dec 31, 2001 06:34pm | #4

   *By the way, Andy, good luck with all that snow!

1. 
   Andy_from_Buffalo | Jan 03, 2002 05:00am | #5

   *The snow is no problem, 82.7 inches is the official total. Thank you everyone for your ideas. The 9 to 5 is paying to well to give up right now. When it comes to the business skills I have a strong background both in the classroom and practical experience. I'm not sure if I will ever make the big switch and quit my job. However until then I am going to educate myself and train to have the ability one day if the opportunity arises. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I guess I'm training for a retirement hobbie/business even though I'm 20 to 30 years away from retirement. Let it snow Let is snow Let it snow!!

2. 
   Steven_Tengelsen | Feb 02, 2002 05:37am | #6

   *Hi Andy,Every summer treat yourself to a class at Penland, Haystack, Anderson Ranch, etc. You'll learn a wealth of info, meet some great people, eat waaaay too much, and get more excited about woodworking than you thought possible. Then spend the other 50 weeks just building stuff and reading as much as possible.Good luck to you, Steve

3. 
   timberrattler | Jan 15, 2003 07:48pm | #8

   Do you have a place you would recommend.

4. 
   alanplanesaw | Jan 05, 2004 06:47am | #10

   Steven,

   Do you have more info, or links, on these locations? 

   Thanks,

   Alan - planesaw

2. 
   bpv3242 | Jan 15, 2003 01:08am | #7

   Peter,

   That was a First Class piece of Advice! No sense in starting a journey unless you have a well defined destination.

2. 
   PecosBill | Jan 04, 2004 05:38am | #9

   My hat is off to all of the small business folks out there!  I ran an engineering business for a few years but finally had to close it.  You may find that the hardest part is not necessarily what your skill level is.  My experience was that marketing your skills or products was the most difficult part.  While you are upgrading your skills, learn what you can about tax laws, health insurance for the self employed, and decide if you will be a sole proprieter or an LLC.  Find a real good accountant that you can COMMUNICATE with.  Also find a good banker (preferably from a small bank or one you know the people at) and work out a line of credit.  There WILL be lean times and sometimes you will have to figure out how to pay the bills with no money coming in.  I am serious about this - in my opinion, you need the ability to weather at least two tough years.

   It sounds like you have a strong work ethic which is essential.  Starting out, there are no such thing as holidays, vacations or time off.  It would be very helpful if your wife had a "real" job with benefits during this transition.  Take care of yourself and try to stay in the best health possible too.  Don't forget spiritual matters.

   Finally, a friend of mine happens to be a lifelong motorcycle restoration enthusiast.  As a lad, he and his buddies dreamed about "going into the motorcycle business".  Well, the others did and made a go of it.  Guess what?  They lost interest in the fun part and the hobby just became work, though profitable.  My buddy, who went a different direction, still loves to restore the bikes!

   Hope this is helpful.  The best of luck to you, your wife and your family.  Take care!

3. 
   john | Jan 05, 2004 08:29pm | #11

   If you want to make money in your business then I would suggest that specialising in kitchens is the way to go. There is plenty of scope for acquiring and utilising woodworking skill in kitchens, especially in the decorative details. I have found that the money people can make available for kitchens is far in excess of what they will spend on other house furnishings, and wit kitchens you don't have competition from furniture stores

   If you don't need to make money then making general furniture is grea fun, but can be difficult to sell

   John