Replies

1. 
   hammer1 | Nov 29, 2005 04:57pm | #1

   I've used many different sharpening methods over the years, crystalon, india, ceramic, arkansas, scary sharp (which I hate). Now I use diamond followed by a 1000 King water stone and then a piece of leather with metal polish like Simichrome, Flitz, etc. The diamonds are fast for reshaping, they stay flat and after 15+yrs. I see no drop in performance. I don't soak my water stone or work up a slurry with a nagura stone. It has stayed flat and you can see the metal particles after one stroke. It takes off the wire easily. The leather quickly gives a mirror finish. If I used micro bevels on plane irons, I would get a finer water stone, probably an 8000 and skip the in between grits. I use a honing guide for all my flat blades throughout the process.

   I bought a couple of Stubai carving tools a few weeks back. The salesperson commented about how sharp they were out of the box. They were sharp but not as sharp as I like them. They were demonstrating the Tormek in the store that morning. I went over and tried the strop. It didn't do much and was very slow. The stone wheel was too coarse for my liking. I went home and after a few strokes on my leather, they were surgically sharp. If I ever get to doing more carving, I will get the Koch sharpening system. For straight blades, the leather and polish is amazing, inexpensive and fast.

   http://www.norahall.com/tools_koch.shtml

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
2. 
   charnwood123 | Nov 29, 2005 05:28pm | #2

   Dear Eric

   I also  would like to go down he route of using  waterstones

   but have the following additional questions

   (1) Do the combination waterstones represent good value for money or is it better to buy the single grit stones

   (2)Do the stones come in various sizes and which is the best size to choose

    

   regards charnwood

1. 
   Ricks503 | Nov 29, 2005 07:21pm | #3

   I am in the same boat as you as well, I do know that water stones come in differant sizes and I plan to get a size that will accomodate my plane irons as well as my chisels. About 3 inches wide I believe. 

   I wonder at the differance between the Norton and the Japanese stones?

   If you plan to strop as a final step, do you stop at 4,000, 6,000 or 8,000?1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

1. 
   EricAnderson | Nov 30, 2005 04:23am | #4

   Oh, good questions.  I hope to boot this back up to the top so that some of these questions get answered!!

3. 
   WillGeorge | Nov 30, 2005 04:32am | #5

   4,000 and/or 8,000 water stones for the final sharpening stages..

   Geeeeee ya folks GET INTO IT!... Before I had my TORMEK I just went with a 'fine' diamond grit.. Whatever that is!.. I'm lost on 8000 grit.. I could cut myself REALLY bad on what I had and all my tools 'worked' wood really nice...

   Not knocking what you do BUT why?

1. 
   philip | Nov 30, 2005 12:27pm | #9

   Sorry for chiming in here, but to answer the question "no knocking what you do , but why?"----There are them that sharpen/hone/whet, them that must sharpen, and them that sharpen and sharpen and sharpen-get the picture?
   And I am pleased to see that Jeff "hates scary sharp"-I have been too shy to actually voice this opinion, rather relying on indirect references to this ridiculous practice.
   Seriously-what methods are people using to determine the degree of sharpness achieved ?Philip Marcou

1. 
   John_D | Nov 30, 2005 07:14pm | #11

   what methods are people using to determine the degree of sharpness achieved ?

   I think most of us sharpen, then use the edge, and if it cuts well, we figured we did what we wanted to do.

   I do have an excellent book on sharpening that goes into exquisite detail, including microphotographs that show you exactly what you get with various methods.  With good care, you can put an edge on a cutting tool that makes "razor sharp" an insult. :)

4. 
   JeffHeath | Nov 30, 2005 05:24am | #6

   Eric

   I have a 4000 grit and 8000 grit that I bought from Japan Woodworker.  Both are natural stones, not synthetic.  I don't know what the comparison would be to Norton's stones, as I've never used them.  I've tried Scary Sharp, and I have a Tormek.  The only time the Tormek comes out is to sharpen my carving tools. (gouges).

   When a blade gets a little dull, I put a microbevel on with the 4000 grit, maybe 5 minutes worth TOPS.  Then I go to the 8000 grit, and polish.  I only regrind the bevel if I have a knick in the blade.

   Jeff

5. 
   ChrisB | Nov 30, 2005 06:30am | #7

   After much trying and looking around, I have come to the conclusion that the only waterstones you need is a 1000 grit and an 8000 grit. King's are cheapest and will last a life time. Norton's are better, but I cannot justify the price.

   I own a 800 grit King, 1200 grit King and a 4000 grit King. I never use them anymore, cause I have no reason to.

   You will also want a 12"X12" piece of glass and some 180 grit wet/dry sandpaper to flatten the stones prior to EVERY use.

   For deep chips, get out the belt sander and hit the tool with 80 grit paper. Don't hold the tool down for more than five seconds and then dunk in water to cool.

   Works for me.

   Chris

1. 
   EricAnderson | Nov 30, 2005 07:56am | #8

   I am starting to get the picture.  However, I am confused about grit, mesh (term used by DMT), US grit and Japanese grit.  It is confusing enough that there are so many different ways to measure the courseness of the particles, but when the grit/mesh/etc. is called out without saying which measurement standard is being used, it is nye impossible to determine what you are dealing with.  I have 3 generic diamond stones (fine, medium, coarse--no reference to a number) plus a blue DMT (coarse at 325 mesh --whatever that unit of measurement comes from -- or 45 microns -- somewhat clearer).  I believe I can use those for treating nicks and other rough conditions.  Would starting at 4,000 and then 8,000 be logical?  It appears that the average post here might confirm that.

   What is the range of prices for a King and equivalent Norton?  I am trying to understand if the Norton stones are 1.5, 2 or 3 times the price of, say, a King.

1. 
   Ricks503 | Nov 30, 2005 04:57pm | #10

   Dont't forget that in sandpaper there are 2 differant grit measurements also and while mostly the same up to about 220 after that they start to diverge seriously.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

1. 
   EricAnderson | Nov 30, 2005 07:15pm | #12

   Yes, I know that sandpaper has Cami and FEPA.  I see in articles that 1000 grit Japanese waterstone is equivalent to FEPA P800 and CAMI 500.  It sure would be nice if these guys would fixate on ONE method of measurement.

   As far as determining the sharpness of a chisel, for example.  I have seen the hair shaving on the arm method and Leonard Lee, in his sharpening video, uses the cross grain on a softwood like poplar to judge sharpness.

6. 
   Midnight | Dec 01, 2005 02:03am | #13

   Eric... I've sharpened / honed exclusivly with waterstones since I started building up my range of hand tools. Like Chris, I've gone a wee bit overboard with the number of stones I've aquired... btw all my stones are King...

   For normal day-to-day use, I reach for just 2 stones, both of them 3" wide; a 10,000 grit for giving the blades a quick tickle whenever needed, and a 2000 grit stone used solely to keep the 10,000 grit flat... I prefer the stone on stone simply from the safety aspect of not having pieces of glass laying around in my shop... (tiny shop with too few places to store stuff).

   My range goes all the way down to 250 grit, but I can count the times I've used the lesser grit stones on the fingers of one hand with a few to spare... Your diamond stones are more than adequate for course work...

   As for suppliers... have a looksee at Lee Valley's web page...

   Mike Wallace

   Stay safe....Have fun