I just finished a large ~30″x70″ mirror made of walnut for my girlfriend and she has agreed to finish it, but wants me to tell her how to do it. I’ve read all the previous postings on finishing walnut and have narrowed it down to a few options, please help me narrow it down to one.
1) few coats of rubbed on waterlox (red can)
2) couple coats of danish oil rubbed in with 0000 steel wool followed by wipe on poly
3) few coats of amber shellac
HELP!!! any other suggestions (keep in mind no sprayer and a novice finisher (not too complex))?
-Art K.
Replies
Art,
I like to take that walnut to a 400-600 grit and then oil and shellac. The shellac can be padded on and rubbed out easily and you don't have to worry about harmful fumes...as with the Waterlox.
I like the Waterlox...but any left in can will go bad unless you remove he oxygen
What type of oil would you suggest? Tung, Danish...? Thanks.
-Art K.
Art,
Just BLO (boiled linseed oil), I like to apply a thin coat with my hands...rub it in a bit..wipe down after about 15-20 mins. and let dry for as long as you can but not less than 48 hours...sometimes I'll wait a week.
I've made tables and chests from walnut and I always use the exact same finish:
Sam Maloof's oil/poly. You wipe it on.. and wipe it off. It's simple, fast, and brings out the beauty of your walnut. It's a mixuture of linseed, tung and poly.
On the chests, I follow the four coats of oil/poly with two caots of Maloof's oil/wax.
You can order it from Rockler.
Edited 4/21/2005 10:32 pm ET by bill
I think this may be a good idea. My girlfriend has limited finishing experience and limited time, so a quick easy finish may be just the answer. As long as she's happy with the way it looks. Thanks.
-Art K
I think this may be a good idea. My girlfriend has limited finishing experience and limited time, so a quick easy finish may be just the answer. As long as she's happy with the way it looks.
DAMN GUY! Do it for her and make her really happy with you!!
LOL!!! Believe me I tried. Last year when we refinished some furniture together she decided that she would do all my finishing, since she enjoyed it and I have no patience. I think she may actually go with the oil and then shellac for the mirror because she says that she'll learn more. I can't tell you how nice it is to have someone that happens to enjoy the part of woodworking that I least enjoy. Last night I again tried to convince her that I could do it this weekend, since she doesn't have time, and she got ticked and said if I finished it I'd be in trouble, because that's her job. I'm no longer fighting this one. -Art K
Art,
One little trick that might help your finisher. Save the bags that are inside the ceral boxes...place brushes,pads, etc. in bag and close between applications...nothing stops air penetration better.
If she runs into any problems, John up at Woodcraft is a great resource (he works Fri.,and Sat.)
Hey thanks a ton. Also, you are the one who told me about Todd Farm over the winter. For that I, and my new planes, thank you!!! It's good to have someone in the immediate area who knows their stuff.
-Art K.
Oil and shellac will be ideal, especially for an item like a mirror that won't get much wear. Here's a walnut chair I did with 'Liberon Finishing Oil' (apparently a low-solids Danish-type) and shellac, then wax. Let us see it when she's done!
(And, guy, a gf who likes to do your finishing - you da man! How does she feel about sanding?)
Clay
Nice chair! As for the sanding, not quite THAT lucky. I'm not going to push this. I detest finishing, well except for applying oil (wax on, wax off). I just bought four big boxes of Norton 3x. It's been a long winter of not being able to finish things outside in the shop so we have some catching up to do.
-Art K
miamiThat's a nice "Conoid chair." I have always been intigued by that design. I should build one and answer the following question for myself, but how do the leg to "runner" joints hold up? Are those saddle joints or M&Ts? There must be horrendous wracking forces there.RichRich
Don't ever learn anything new. Rather than give you satisfaction that you know more than you did, it will only confirm you know less than you thought by opening horizons to things of which you had never dreamt and which you now must explore.
I wrote a whole paragraph here, and dug up a photo of my model, before I realized you were not asking about the seat-to-leg joints, but leg-to-runner ...
It's sort of housed (?) saddles - the runners have wide vertical (more or less - nothing's 90 degrees here) dadoes cut on each side, to receive the 'arms' on the leg bottom bridle.
Those didn't / don't worry me half as much as the seat joint (and are much easier to explain in words)
To my understanding, the method Nakashima studios uses to attach the seat is not public knowledge (though there are clues in the Nakashima books' photos) - a friend wrote New Hope to ask them about that joint, in preparation for building his (which he graciously loaned me - see background on the left side of the pic), and got no answer except a threat of litigation.
He had an original to work from, and said it had plugs in the back of the seat bottom, apparently concealing metal fasteners of some kind. But, he used no such, so neither did I - all walnut, and it'll hold a 225-pound brother-in-law ... (which is not to say I wasn't wincing inside when he approached it!)
I'm tickled you liked it - I'm a relative newb, and it was my first chair.
Clay
Edited 4/24/2005 9:17 pm ET by miami
Clay,Thanks. And thanks for correcting "saddle" to "bridle" joint. (different part of the horse!)If Nakashima used fasteners in the seat joint it's probably because he had chairs returned that failed.Your friend was threatened legally for asking how the seat joint was made? What a shame. I wonder how copy write issues figure into something like this?As far as I know Sam Maloof has never taken such action with anyone who has made a chair resembling or even replicating his distinctive design. He encourages the work of others. His book shows every step of the construction and detail of the design. He's proud to show his technique and his solutions to the mechanics of the joints (some of which are wrong! - hey, he's an artist, and self-taught). He's not the slightest worried that anyone would mistake another's work for his. Now if someone were to forge his signature on a piece, that's a different story. If I could ever afford to pay the price he commands for a chair, I would only want one of his. If someone is doing knockoffs, it doesn't hurt his market. People who buy copies could never afford Maloof or Nakashima originals anyway.I noticed the chair in the background, and assumed you were a chair maker. Nice work for a beginner! What glue did you use? I would have used hot hide glue.Rich
Edited 4/25/2005 12:56 am ET by Rich14
Rich,
I woulda sworn I'd replied to you, but here it isn't, so ...
I used epoxy on the chair joints - I wasn't confident that I had no gaps down deep inside those complex leg-to-seat joints, and with the cantilever forces here, I wanted all the strength-across-gaps I could get!
Clay
Hi, I am thinking of building some bookcases in walnut ply and was wondering if you thought they'd finish well this same way...
I have a walnut chair in construction. Has anyone tried the Sam Maloof finishes?
Varnish, Boiled Linseed oil, Tung oil, Beeswax
Yes, I think it should work fine with the same results as when used on solid walnut.
um, i hope this doesn't seem dumb, but I am new at this. Why is the maloof mix so much better than just a wipe-on poly finish? Thanks.
Well, you can certainly mix your own. It's just boiled linseed oil, tung oil and poly. I buy it because I have no idea what the ratio is and I really think the finish I get is worth the moola.
By the way, I've tried other wipe on poly mixes and haven't been satisfied with how they "wipe on". I guess I could add mineral spirits to make them less tacky.. but I just like to hang with what works for me.
Do you use sandpaper or steel wool, (3-0 or 4-0), between coats? For a walnut chair would you use a wax or just buff the last coat?
Thanks for your help.
I don't use any abrasive between coats.. you shouldn't have to unless your prep was done improperly or you have lots of dust issues in your shop.
The wax/poly is a good follow to the oil/poly as long as you are not planning to put anything hot on the surface as in a dining table.
Thanks for your help. This particular chair is not getting arm rests so no hot liquids. I'm planning to sand 180-240-400 before finish.
Should turn out great. Try to post a picture when your finish is completed.
Bill
I'll do that. I hope to finish it soon. (No. 1 son is getting married this next weekend.)
:-)
BigDaddy.
Took a course in finishing at Cerritos College here in LA. Instuctor is a professional finisher who has work in the Smithsonian and refinished the interiors of both the Gambel House and Blacker House -- Greene & Greene super bungalos. They would not have given Mike Miller the work if he did not know what he was doing.
His advise to us when using the three part oils--no poly but spar varnish, was to apply then rub in using 1200 grit wet/dry sandpaper. You get an far improved finish over simply apply the oil finish and wiping dry.
Once you have built up the finish, you rub out with 0000 steel wool and wax.
Attached is a file with the formula and process for a wipe on finish. I typically short step the process but many of the students follow this process to the letter and come up with an amazing finish.
Russ,Hanging around a forum like this long enough, one will eventually see every manner of recipe for an oil/varnish mix that the contributor think is the best one to use, for all kinds of different reasons.Frankly, it matters very little what one uses in an oil/varnish mix as long as we stay within some very broad parameters.We need a solvent. Almost any will do. Turps, mineral spirits, naphtha. Or all these combined, if you want. The solvent should comprise about 1/3 the final volume of the mix.We need an oil. Boiled linseed, yeah, let's use some of that. Pure tung, sure, why not? Use walnut if you want, I won't mind. Use any one of these or mix them together. The oil phase should comprise about 1/3 of the volume of the mix.The final color and grain development will be different depending on oil choice. BLO will give more color development than the others and this choice can be dictated by the wood being finished.But the choice of oil has absolutely no effect after the second coat, maybe even after the first. The oil penetrates the wood to a small degree (much less than is usually assumed). Most of this happens with the first coat. After the second coat cures, the wood is completely sealed by the varnish component and subsequent coats are nothing more than multiple applications of a wiping varnish. More below.We need a varnish. Spar varnish is NOT a good choice. Spar varnish never completely hardens. A better choice is an alkyd varnish of higher hardness potential (a "shorter" varnish). Some people use other varnishes like polyurethane. Mix several together. Knock yourself out. The varnish should comprise about 1/3 the volume of the mix.The volumes can be varied somewhat as to their final ratios. The mix can be made thinner (more solvent) or more viscous, depending on how you like it to handle. 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 is a good general formula for all considerations from initial penetration to lubricating qualities for rubbing coats 2-3 and above. But it really makes little difference in the end how you mix the stuff up.The first two coats are applied by keeping the wood wet for 30 minutes or so and then wiping the surface as dry as possible. There is no need to belabour this phase, despite all kinds of "formulas" about how it's done. It's very simple and the process applies to any mixture ratio, any commercial brand one uses. Put it on. Keep it wet. If it gums up, becomes tacky or dry, wet it some more. Make sure it stays wet (did I say that?) for a while, then wipe it dry.Do the same thing 24 to 48 hours later. This 2nd coat may become tacky more quickly than the first. Did I mention you need to keep it wet? Then wipe it dry.Then, at intervals, apply additional coats, using whatever applicator you want. Use a rag or 400 wet-or-dry grit or 4-0 steel wool or 600 grit wet-or-dry or 1500 grit wet-or-dry. Use whatever you want, depending on the final surface you want to achieve and the wood type you're finishing.These additional coats will lay down succesive very thin varnish films. The oil component will really not be a factor in the film development. The oil has done its job in the first coats and only contributes to lubrication.Put down as many coats as you want. Usually, each coat beyond the second looks significantly better than the last up until about the 5th or 6th coat. Beyond 5-6 coats is the point of diminishing returns, but some people put down many more and feel that more is better.In any case, the process builds a beautiful, delicate, microscopically thin varnish film, layer by microscopic layer. As the film builds, it becomes more beautiful and durable.Now, if there's any real "secret" to the process, it's this: each coat, after the 2nd should be allowed to cure for at least a week. That's right - a week - before the next finish/rubbing exercise. The varnish film is much too soft otherwise. Appling a new coat, using any kind of abrasive application sooner than a week actually abrades much, if not all of the previous layer. Waiting at least a week gives the previous layer enough time to cure to the point that a new application actually results in net additional varnish on the wood.Add wax to your mix for last coat, or use paste wax alone as the final coat, applying with the same abrasive applicator as other coats. Let it harden for a day, and buff it with a lambs wool buffer in a power drill.Oil/varnish finishing is very, very easy to do. It's really foolproof. But it cannot be done fast. It takes a long, long time to do right. We trade degree of difficulty for time of application. A month after the last coat is applied, the varnish film will have achieved its maximum durability.Rich
Thanks Russ. I have a Walnut chair in production. Only working on it on weekends due to working hours. I'll try this on a scrap piece to make sure I get the process down. Most of my finishing/re-finishing experience has been stain then 2 coats of poly.
Thanks again. I hope to visit the Gambel house in the next few years.
BigDaddy.
1) few coats of rubbed on waterlox (red can)
2) couple coats of danish oil rubbed in with 0000 steel wool followed by wipe on poly
3) few coats of amber shellac
I think she will smile at you!
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled