Replies

1. 
   Woodcrazy | Jun 11, 2003 01:20am | #1

   From what i've read you shouldn't have to wet the veneer. just use the hide glue.

   also there are now modern glues that the pro's use, such as 2 part stuff.

   http://www.joewoodworker.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=40&osCsid=d4f9dec0b99d022d154d45b94ee6cca3  (NOT Affiliated)

   i have been using the Unibond 800 and have had no problems- so far.  I talked to a pro and they said "use hide glue if you want the historical touch" but they use the 2 part stuff. 

   Also you should balance stresses by applying veneer to both front and back if possible, preferably a 1/16" layer of lesser grade at 90 degrees to the substrate and then the "good" veneer at 90 degrees to the lesser grade - front and back.

   I've just started with a vacuum bag and find them unique in my WW experience.

   http://www.vacupress.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html  is a veneer forum that may help you.

   Sincerely Ray in Toronto

2. 
   JerseyJohn | Jun 13, 2003 05:57pm | #2

   Here are some of the issues that are affecting your work

   1. Maple is a highly tensioned species with tight grain structure.  You are trying to take a piece of veneer (wood) that has been growing in a particular shape for many years and then trying to force it to bond to another shape.  It naturally want to go back to it's shape (flat).  The glue is minimally penetrating the veneer so yoou are not getting a good mechanical interlock between the adhesive and the veneer (think velcro)

   2. You have to relieve this tension using a GF-20 veneer softener or via one of the many homebrew recipes for this. 

   3. Glue selection -  You are using a thermo plastic adhesive.  This is highly subjective to creep.  You want a thermo set adhesive (no creep)

   Things to do

   1. Use a veneer softener

   2. Rough up the glue side of the veneer with 80 or 120 grit to "open it" and allow it to accept greater glue penetration

   3. Change to a thermoset adhesive (urea) rigid, minimal to no spring back and leave it clamped for 24 hours.  SIz is sufficient but ALL glues take a full 24 hours for full cure.  Longer under pressure the better....a CYA maneuver.

   If you need more information, just post your questions.

   Regards

   John Ersing

   Veneer Systems

1. 
   SawdustRay | Jun 18, 2003 08:56pm | #3

   Thanks!

   My second attempt was a success.  I continued with the hide glue and made adjustments based on my first try.  I can definitely see myself using veneer on other projects - if nothing else because of the huge range of veneers available that would be difficult or impossible to find in solid lumber.  I've been using "Veneering - A Foundation Course" by Mike Burton as my reference.  Is there a veneering "bible" or widely acknowledged first source I should have in my library.

1. 
   JerseyJohn | Jun 18, 2003 09:47pm | #4

   Unfortunately veneering is not a science, it is an art.  There are so many variables that there can not be one way to do it.  It is a "what works for me" craft.  I dont visit FWW to sell products, I assist where I can.

    I would suggest you look at the reference and eduation section of my web site at http://www.veneersystems.com  which can be found under the supplies link.

   Enjoy your veneering :-)John Ersing

   Veneer Systems

2. 
   DougSmith | Mar 15, 2005 04:18am | #8

   This is a question for John Ersing. I lay veneer by spreading yellow glue on the substrate only and clamping the veneer to it in a small press. This method produces very even and smooth panels, but with porous woods like oak or most imported species, the glue bleeds through the pores. I need waxed paper to prevent the panel from sticking to the plywood caul. How can I prevent this bleed-through?

   Thanks,

   Doug Smith

3. 
   RMillard | Jun 19, 2003 02:59am | #5

   Crazy Ray,

   I do a lot of veneering using hot hide glue and a veneer hammer, and maybe you could try the following suggestions.

   The most important thing you can do, is to apply a thinned down coat of glue to your substrate the night before you plan to veneer . This coat should be quite thin, running off the brush much like plain water. This will prevent the glue used during the hammering process from soaking in too quickly.

   Another advantage to applying a size to the substrate, is it allows you to use a thinner mixture of glue. Using thinner glue is a definite advantage when hammer veneering, as thick glue wants to puddle and is difficult to “push” as it cools.

   You probably should only mist your veneer. I have hammer veneered both curly and birdseye maple, and I can’t say that they show any more tendency to curl and others species . I once wetted the face of a piece of poplar veneer about 14 inches wide, and got distracted for a few minutes. When I came back I could not find the veneer. It had curled up into a tube about 7/8” in diameter and rolled on the floor. After seeing that I expected real trouble, but it worked out fine, that is once I got to unroll.

   One thing I do with crotches is to coat them with the same thinned down glue I use for substrates, and press them between sheets of plastic wrap. This in effect pre-glues the veneer. It also nearly eliminates the curling problem. While I have not done this with anything other than crotches, it would work with your situation.

   Never hammer across the grain, no matter how tempting it may be. This will stretch the veneer and cause it to crack across the grain, as it dries.

   Cut your veneer to no more than 1/8’ larger all the way around . Excess overhanging veneer encourages splitting and curling.

   You were smart to let things sit for a while, as this gives the glue a chance to thicken and then when re-heated, it will bond much better in areas where there is a bubble.

   As you get use to hammer veneering, you will find it to be a quick, easy and reliable method to affix veneer to nearly and shaped substrate.

   Hide glue will not affect your stain, in fact it will absorb dyes and stains quite well, plus it is easy to sand off since it dries very hard. I use a wash of hide glue on blotch prone woods like cherry and maple to even out the finish.

1. 
   SawdustRay | Jun 26, 2003 08:37pm | #6

   Thanks!

   I just finished my first veneered piece and am very happy with the results.  This opens new possibilities for my woodworking that I'm really excited about.  I'll definately take your advice and the other's the next go round. 

1. 
   RMillard | Jun 27, 2003 10:10pm | #7

   There is one thing I left out , that I thought of last night while mixing hide glue for veneering a curly maple serpentine dresser, and that is the addition of a small amount of white vinegar. I read somewhere about this, and while I can’t explain how it works, the vinegar does seem to help the tack of the hide glue.

   I mix up the glue a little on the thick side and add enough white vinegar to get the glue to run off the brush in a steady stream. Less of the vinegar is better than more. Unfortunately I don’t have an exact recipe , since I just mix my glue by eye.