Replies

1. 
   CharlieD | Jan 20, 2005 03:59am | #1

   You want at bandsaw. And what a can of worms that opens! A planer is way useful, too.

   Charlie

   I tell you, we are here to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different. --K Vonnegut
2. 
   RobbyP | Jan 20, 2005 06:02am | #2

   First congrats on your table saw choice.  I love mine and it has been put through it's paces with only one problem that Jet had fixed within a few days.  The arbor pully"s key way set screw's were not contacting the key way.  It looked like a problem with the threading.  Anyways they had a technician out to me the next day (I live out in the middle of nowhere the technician had to drive over an hour to get to me)  He was very friendly and had it fixed in no time at no cost to me and the saw was 23 months old.  Consiquently i have bought a lot of Jet equipment.  I feel customer service is super important.  So to reccommend what i bought and like...

   Jet 16" bandsaw (great machine, blade tracking is a little finicky)

   Jet floor standing drill press

   Powermatic 6 inch jointer (I wish i would have bought the 8")

   2 1200 CFM jet dust collector

   Jet air cleaner

   Hope this helps

   Robby Phelps RP Custom Woodworks

3. 
   nikkiwood | Jan 20, 2005 09:14am | #3

   Well, the usual answer to this question is "it depends on what kind of stuff you want to build."

   So, I think I would suggest you hoard your stash of tool money, and buy various tools as you need them.

   But during this time, I would start making a list of the specific tools you would probably acquire when the need arose -- based on what you hear around here, read in the magazines, etc.

   Until then, you might concentrate on building your complement of portable power tools -- routers, drills, sanders, and the like.

1. 
   damschrs | Jan 21, 2005 01:38pm | #5

   I agree with Nikkiwood completely. It depends on your style of work. Do you dimension by hand or machine? What joinery techniques do you use: hand or machine? So on and so on.

   There isn't anyone here that can plan your equipment list, but you. The fact that you're asking that question says that you're not sure what you need, or how you will work, so don't go hog wild... just yet.Get basic, very high quality, dimensioning tools and start the process. You'll determine your needs as you go and buy accordingly. Set aside an equipment budget account to draw from as your techniques, and needs, grow.

   thnxscottd.

    scottdDamschroder Scott Furniture[email protected]A craftsman needs three things: Accuracy, Technique, and Quality. Accuracy can be set; technique can be learned; but quality must be bought and built.

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jan 22, 2005 06:56am | #12

   "A craftsman needs three things: Accuracy, Technique, and Quality. Accuracy can be set; technique can be learned; but quality must be bought and built."Scottd,I like the sentiment expressed by your quote: your writing?
   -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   damschrs | Jan 22, 2005 04:22pm | #14

   Thanks. It just sums up for me my philosophy of work.scottdDamschroder Scott Furniture[email protected]A craftsman needs three things: Accuracy, Technique, and Quality. Accuracy can be set; technique can be learned; but quality must be bought and built.

2. 
   jazzdogg | Jan 22, 2005 06:53am | #11

   Hi Nikkiwood,Once again, I agree with you completely. I would add high-quality hand tools to the list because in many respects I feel as though the years before I became comfortable and proficient in hand-tool skills were somehow sorely underutilized - less than they could have been. Maybe it's the sense of self-confidence or mastery that only well-practiced and hard-earned hand skills can convey.
   One thing's for sure: having fine-tuned hand tools at the ready, and having the skills needed to maintain end use them, makes a far greater number and variety of tasks possible than with power tools alone - and there's no objectionable noise and only limited sawdust. <G>
   Havin' some fun now!
   -Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

4. 
   JohnWW | Jan 20, 2005 08:43pm | #4

   Dave,

   I would strongly urge you to buy some books and/or take a course or two in basic woodworking, so that you can understand what tools you will need for the types of work you plan to be doing.  The tone of your question suggests that you don't have much training in woodworking and you need some knowledge before you spend thousands of dollars on tools that may not be at all what you need.

   Asking a question about what to buy on "Knots" will get a lot of recommendations for "Dream Shops" full of tools, but the suggestions could be totally inappropriate for your situation and leave you overwhelmed with contradictory advice. 

   Before you purchase anything, you need be knowledgeable enough about the basics of woodworking to be able to make intelligent choices about what types of tools you need, then you can ask some advice about brands and models. 

   I'd also suggest that a good set of hand tools and measuring tools is much more important than what power tools to buy.  With hand tools, even more than with power tools, the type of work you plan to do, and the techniques you plan to use, will determine which tools to buy.

   John W.

      

5. 
   zombeerose | Jan 21, 2005 06:27pm | #6

   I would have to agree with Nikkiwood that a router and sander would be intimately importmant, and incredibly useful, for any woodworking project.  I have 2 routers (started with Ryobi plunge and also got a Porter Cable with both fixed & plunge base - Porter Cable is the BEST).  Besides the table saw and sanders, I use the router for everything - fancy edges, straightening edges, mortises, inlay, and don't forget HB dovetails.

   Z

   BTW, What part of AZ are you in?  I'm in Surprise!

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   Edited 1/21/2005 10:28 am ET by Zombeerose

   
   

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   Edited 1/21/2005 10:30 am ET by Zombeerose

1. 
   davefrommesa | Jan 21, 2005 06:35pm | #7

   What part of AZ are you in?  I'm in Surprise!I'm in East Mesa. My son lives in Suprise.

6. 
   davefrommesa | Jan 21, 2005 06:55pm | #8

   I guess I should add that about 10-12 yrs ago a friend and I took a woodshop class and the local HS. I have made a coffee table and 2 end tables. The problem was that all the machinery that was big industrial stuff. Nice to have but not very practical to have. What I would like to know is what is the min I should buy now within reason. Again money is here now maybe not later

   thanks

   
   

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   Edited 1/21/2005 12:13 pm ET by davefromAZ

1. 
   jazzdogg | Jan 22, 2005 07:17am | #13

   Dave,I recommend that instead of thinking in terms of equipment, you think in terms of the woodworking processes you will undertake when you build the kinds of projects that you enjoy.For example, the seven-step squaring process is undertaken routinely if you work with solid wood, especialy if you buy it rough-sawn. So if you plan to work with a lot if solid wood, you'll need tools specifically for squaring. It's the process that's important to do correctly - fast and easy are both luxuries that cost more than doing things by hand - so buy the tools you'll need to complete each process as quickly, accurately, and easily as you can justify and afford. The best tools for the job are entirely dependent on the job being performed; different tools are used to make cabinets or entertainment centers from sheet goods than are need to craft chairs from green wood.
   If I had an opportunity to retroactively change my approach to woodworking going back 35 years, I'd concentrate far more time and attention to developing hand-tool skills, and buy the power tools one at a time, looking as far into the future as possible when planning purchases.I think it's smart of you to inquire here, as you have. Knots is a terrific resource for this kind of information. I encourage you to think long-term and spend far more time planning and preparing than you do buying and equipping your shop.
   It's like any other situation in which you have to plan for the long haul: consider your options carefully, invest wisely, and prioritize your decisions based on a balance of your long- and short-term goals.Take the time to set the stage for your future success, make sure you have fun, be flexible, and hold on tight - it's going to be a wild ride.!-Jazzdogg-

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

7. 
   CajunDan | Jan 21, 2005 09:39pm | #9

   Hi, DavefromAZ

   I am guessing by your post that you have some money now, but it will be spent on other things if you wait. In other words, you want to buy tools you will not regret later.

   Many told you to get more experience, or build a few projects first so you can later decide what you really need. That is very good advice, providing you have (or can borrow) what you need to make those projects.

   I recommend these;

   Saw - table or bandsaw.

   Planer - allows you to save $$$ by buying rough lumber or odd thicknesses. Most woodworkers get by with portable planers.

   Jointer - necessary to flatten one face prior to planing. Most woodworkers get by with 6" jointers.

   Dust control - absolutely necessary if you want a healthy future.

   There is a growing number of woodworkers who recommend hand tools to replace many power tools. For the most part, they only use power tools to dimension their lumber.  Even if you go that route eventually, you will still want the planer and jointer.

   Good Luck,

   Dan

   
   

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   Edited 1/21/2005 4:45 pm ET by Cajun Dan

8. 
   mvac | Jan 22, 2005 03:02am | #10

   Dave,

    

   Glad to hear you're getting into the art, science and enjoyment of woodworking. And I think buying the best quality you can afford is rarely a bad thing. But I have a cautionary tale for you.

   "ps guess I should have added I am new to wood working and plan on learning on the machines..."

   Seven years ago I decided I was getting into woodworking and no one was gonna stop me. Spent thousands on a TS, router, sanders, drill press, lots of hand tools and of course several thousand clamps (not really that many). I'd taken a number of metal shop classes in HS - Milling, Foundry, etc.  And I did read not a little before starting to try to make things. I also paid (what I thought) was careful attention to safety. Had the featherboards, push sticks, etc.

   So I rip a miter on a long board on my table saw, turn off the saw, and put the keeper piece down. But I notice there's an offcut near the blade and it's annoying me by making noise as it keeps bouncing on and off of it. I actually looked down at my push stick on the ground, and decided it wasn't worth the effort - so with the blade spinning down, I went to "flick" the offcut away from the blade using my thumb and middle finger.

   After shouting Sh%^$#*! a couple of times, I wrapped my thumb in the cleanest cloth I could find - it soaked red pretty quickly - walked up the stairs to where my wife and mother-in-law were (It was during the holidays), and calmly told my wife, "Honey, we need to go to the emergency room now."

   As we got in the car and began our trek to the hospital, I started to feel more pain, and even worse, more fear, because I didn't know how much I'd cut off and didn't want to take the compress off given the bleeding.

   Turns out I took about 3/16" off the tip of my right thumb. An "abruption,", they called it.  After taking some of the most fantastic pain pills God has ever given to man, I saw the hand surgeon the next day, and in the office, he removed about a 5/8" square patch of skin from my wrist and grafted it onto my thumb.

   The rest of what I remember was having to keep the thumb raised above my heart ALL THE TIME for several days, before the doc checked that the graft had taken and gave me the OK to stop sleeping with a set of pillows and jigs set up so my hand stayed raised all night while I slept. Oh, and I was pretty out of it for a few weeks.

   Know what? I got lucky. And I mean lucky. When I went to the hospital for a follow-up visit, I saw all these pictures of peoples' big toes that had been grafted onto their hands to replace their thumbs. I was stupid, stupid, stupid. And that wasn't the only time; it was just the only time I got hurt because of my stupidity and/or ignorance.

   If you've got the money to buy these fine woodworking machines, and theyare indeed fine machines, you have the money to take a few lessons in proper technique. You'll not only be safer, but you'll cut your learning curve by 1/2 to 3/4.

   I didn't touch my machine for a couple of years, and that's a shame. But now, I've spent time with the experts - still do, in fact, and get incredible joy from my woodworking. And I can tune a table saw, jointer, planer, whatever, with the best of them. And safety always comes first. But if you learn the right technique, you've learned the safest technique. I actually get a lot of enjoyment from my hand tools, because it feels like more of an accomplishment when I hand-cut a set of tight-fitting dovetails or plane a board smooth. Btw, the thumb's fine, and you'd never know I'd had an accident - as I said, I was lucky.

   I don't mean to be preachy. And I appreciate that you worked with some of these tools long ago. But please, consider getting some amount of expert training. There are WW schools, clubs, Woodcraft has courses, as do most community colleges. My bet is that, if you do invest the time, you won't ever need to take a couple of years off of something so pleasurable.

   Best regards and good luck,

   Mitch

9. 
   BG | Jan 22, 2005 06:02pm | #15

   DavefromAZ,

   Putting aside the 'what do you want to build' question, making things of wood kinda falls into distinct processes.  These processes can be accomplished with handtools, hand power tools and/or big relatively heavy equipment.  The wood preperation process, or milling, most would advise a jointer, planer and tablesaw. Shaping the stock a bandsaw, lathe and shaper or router table. Joinery would be drill press and morticer and maybe a dovetail jig. Finishing is easiest but could include a wide belt sander.  Many of these pieces of equipment can be used to accomplish tasks in other processes but as a general rule I would think the above list covers it.

    

10. 
    BArnold | Jan 22, 2005 06:22pm | #16

    "... I want to buy locally so that let's out Grizzly and any other mail order only tools. ..."

    Dave,

    I can sympathize with you because I felt that way for a long time.  I wanted to buy locally so I could take the item back if there was a problem.  Tools are generally so reliable these days that they rarely have to go back to the vendor.  As I kept doing price comparisons and saw how much more bang for my buck I could get by ordering via the Internet, more and more of my purchases have been made that way.  When I have had a problem and the item had to be returned, the vendor made arrangements for it to be picked up and returned at their expense.

    I've bought a carload of stuff from Amazon; plenty from other suppliers also.  The largest item I've purchased via the Internet is my G0513 bandsaw from Grizzly.

    Regards,

    Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting
    Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.

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    Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

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1. 
   davefrommesa | Jan 23, 2005 10:27pm | #17

   I would like to thank all of you for your responses. Much food for thought. For those who suggested that I take some classes, and after reading Mitch's post, it got me thinking that is not a bad idea. Yesterday I found there is a Woodcraft store here in the Phoenix area. I signed up for a "Table Saw Basics" class. They don't have anything else in the near future but I will keep checking. Again thanks for all the info.