I am considering purchasing the SC titanium saw that Woodworker’s Supply has had on sale for a while. Anyone have one or seen one? What are your thoughts as to the long term durability of the titanium. Does/could it “wear off”? I told my wife this will be my last tablesaw, so I don’t want to make a mistake. Thanks.
Bob
Replies
I only know about titanium from my Stilletto hammer (and reading about high-end bicycles). It's definately softer than the steel hammers. The whole head is mushroomed a little around the edges and even has some chips in it. One claw is slightly shorter than the other. I wonder if it might be prone to small dings on a top. What is the supposed advantage?
Brian
You can make things hard or soft depending on the composition of the alloy. Titanium is used a lot in airplanes, where one does not want things prone to failure. Its advantage is lightweight strength and resistance to corrosion. Or so I am told.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
I believe it's titanium nitride not solid titanium. It's purpose in this application is to inhibit rust."There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
-- Daniel Webster
As mentioned elsewhere, it's titanium nitride, not metallic titanium. It's the same stuff used on drill bits, where the main purpose is abrasion resistance--it is a very hard ceramic material. It also offers some rust resistance, but the coating is microscopically thin, so I suspect that the rust resistance would be easily compromised by dropping a piece of hard steel on the surface.
-Steve
Sounds like a gimmick to me.
Much like the paint on your car is a gimmick. What the hell enough Boeshield and wax and elbow grease and your bare car wont rust either."There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
-- Daniel Webster
I honestly can't remember the last time I drove a tablesaw in the rain and snow.
If you like to water your tablesaw or use it as a bar top then by all means go for the titanium nitride. A tool for a tool.
Edited 4/10/2008 9:16 am ET by TaunTonMacoute
"If you like to water your tablesaw or use it as a bar top then by all means go for the titanium nitride." If you live in an area such as the Great Northwest, or the humid south, it doesn't take any direct action by a human to create rust on a cast iron top.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Considering the amount of time and effort many of us put into removing and preventing rust, I'd say it's a pretty smart idea IMO. Not a gimmick if it's works and serves a purpose.
We poured water on the Titanium TS one morning around 10 A.M. at the Atlanta WW Show in 2007. When we wiped it off around 4 P.M. that afternoon, there was no rust. My son set a glass of water while cutting grass on my cast iron jointer table for about 3 minutes before I discovered it. I wiped the sweat off very thoroughly, but noticed an hour latter a ring of rust even though the table had been Boeshielded and waxed.
There's your gimmick, it won't rust. You make your own call on that! And it may chip if you use the top for a hammer. But then again.. you might as well just get a steel hammer if that is what you intend to use it for. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
There has been no reports of titanium coming off in about two years. I can't say what would happen 1 year or ten years from now, just as I can't predict if my cast iron table didn't stress crack or rust after I left it at mid-night last night.
I will say that I have used the Titanium saw and the Steel City Industrial fence is great. I have a Biesemeyer (which is great).. but I would trade for the SC Industrial (not the T square) in a heart-beat. If you give it a slight nudge you can count on having to run to the end of the rail to stop it or it might launch into the next county. :>)
Good luck...
Sarge..
Sarge, if you were to purchase a new saw today, would you consider the titanium, or stick with the tried and true plain cast iron?
Bob
Make me a good deal on a 5 HP SC Titanium and watch how quick I would put my current 3 HP cabinet on the market... Does that answer the question...
I don't take my TS out in the rain or other dramatic effects that people think up, Dan... but I do deal with high humidity 4-5 months a year in Atlanta and you better check cast iron at least every other day or you could have a problem. And that is stated after my saw has been treated with Boe-shield T-9 and waxed with crystalline Renaissance wax about every two weeks just for that problem.
So... if I got a good deal on straight cast iron.. I would consider taking it. If I got a good deal on Titanium... I would take it under the various circumstances that I deal with. Each of us have our circumstances and that is what you should base your decision on IMO..
BTW.. keep in mind that there is a cast iron table under the titanium coating and you are covered with titanium and a 5 Year Warranty.
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 4/10/2008 10:22 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Why not go with the granite top? Tom
Hiya, Tom. The granite-top saw is on a different model. I suspect the most common reason people will end up choosing the iron option is the fact that aftermarket gauges such as the Incra or Osborne won't work well in the granite slot. Another reason is that magnetic accessories won't work on the granite.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Oh. Makes sense, although I'd trade all my cast iron tops for granite to avoid dealing with rust and the lovely Gulf Coast humidity. Cool front today will dry things out a bit for two days, though! SC didn't have a booth at the woodworking show in Houston, and I've still not seen the granite tops/fences up close and personal. Why dont' the miter slots work with accessories? Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
The miter slot problem has been overblown, and I wouldn't let it stop me buying a granite top if it was what I wanted. Aftermarket miter gauges come with a steel washer at the front end of the slot guide. It's held in place by a screw because about 50 % of buyers have to remove it -- you can't use it on a saw that doesn't have a t-slot miter slot. It rides in the bottom of the T, and is there to stop the miter gauge tipping onto the floor if you pull it too far back towards you.
The SC granite top does have a t-slot. If you used a miter gauge with the usual small steel washer, and pulled it back far enough to tip, then the weight of lumber and gauge would all be levered against the granite miter slot, and might damage it. The miter gauge that comes with the SC has a lozenge shaped washer instead of a round one, and on the prototype I saw was about 1 to 1 1/2 inches long and made of metal. So you have 3 choices if you want to use an aftermarket miter gauge with a granite top. You can remove the steel washer and operate without it, as many other saw owners have to. You can take the washer off the SC gauge and attach it to the aftermarket gauge. Or you can use the SC washer as a model to make your own from metal, hardwood, UMW or whatever -- about 10 minutes work.
It seems a shame to me that a useful innovation is being hindered by worries over a very minor "problem."
Jim
Yep.....
Sarge..
Sarge ,iirc your curent saw is a Uni ............... do you feel the SC that is on sale is the better saw and if so, why? tia
Edited 4/21/2008 10:37 pm ET by jc21
Better trunnion design than the later Uni-saw and beefier. If it has the Industrial fence the fence is better IMO. I have a Biese that is great with a short fence over the top of it... but the Industrial fence on the SC is the slickest in both design and movement I have ever seen.
And I might add I just waxed my Uni-saw which I have to do about every month as I run a ton of stock over it ripping. That would be eliminated with the Titanium. And don't get me wrong.. the Uni-saw gets the job done.
I almost bought the SC Titanium, but I purchased their 8" jointer and Redmond and Son Machinery offered me the factory re-conditioned Uni-saw for $999 with the mobile base. Last one they had as they purchased a tractor load from Delta. I had helped them assist some customers with BS's all afternoon at the Atlanta WW show two years ago now.. kind of a you scratch my back.. I'll scratch yours deal.
The SC was retail at that time and I felt it was a deal I couldn't refuse!
Hope that helps...
Sarge..
Edited 4/22/2008 1:16 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Hi, Tom. Sounds like there are workarounds for the miter guage problem, but I like magnetic accessories. Wouldn't the titanium top solve your rust problem? The woodworkers.com sale saw is quite a deal.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hey JamieI love SC tools and this saw sounds like quite a deal. I'm stuck with my cast iron tops and my Ridgid TS3650 for awhile. I'm pretty sure my next TS will be a SawStop, but it's going into a dedicated shop space that will be climate controlled (read AC on the Gulf Coast lol!) and that's going to be a bit yet. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Good for you, Tom. I may get a SawStop yet. The Unisaw will fill the space for now, but I'm thinking the SS isn't beyond my means in another year.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Tom, forestgirl said it. My reasons are that magnetic accessories won't work with granite and the titanium top is $1199.99 at Woodworker's Supply.
Bob
BobHave you contacted SC about the Titanium top? I've got two of their tools--14" BS and mortiser, and I've found them to be VERY helpful and upfront. They will stand behind their tools. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
Tom,
I called Steel City last week and the rep I spoke with said there haven't been any problems since they were introduced. I asked here for an unbiased opinion.
Bob
I recently bought this saw from woodworkers. I have not used it enough to comment in depth, but it's quite a saw for that price. I was not looking for a titanium top, but 1200 shipped for a 3 hp cabinet saw is hard to pass up. The fence is very accurate and moves easily. Everything runs smoothly. It shipped with 3 blades and a stacked dado set. Positive locks on the handwheels are great to maintain blade settings. I am very pleased so far. The only thing that was funny was that the hardware bag was all mixed up...I was able to put things together in a satisfactory manner with the parts supplied, but not according to the directions. I also had over 100 leftover parts. Someone was sleeping on the assembly line. My next step will be to upgrade the guard to handle overhead dust collection. Does this saw have some kind of electric brake? It comes up to speed almost instantly, and stops in a few seconds. My craftsman with a torsion spring drive would flub flub flub for about 10 seconds to get up to speed and took a while to wind down. Having a blade that stops quick is great for getting the next cut set up without risking your fingers.
I'm encouraged by your early impression of the saw. On a side note regarding shipping; did you have to pay extra for a lift gate for home delivery? (assuming it was delivered there). What was the time frame from order to delivery?
Thanks.
Bob
I received a not from woodworkers that said to call them. I didn't have a chance for a few days. When I did they said the black top was backordered, but grays were available (extension table) I said that I wasn't aware of a choice, and any color would do fine. The saw shipped that day and arrived a few days later. I have a forklift, so I wasn't concerned about liftgate. However, this is my experiance in the last six months of having something like two dozen freight deliveries as we build our new house. I have never asked or paid for liftgate, but nearly all of my deliveries have had a gate. We live on a dirt road and half of the companies sent out a box truck with a lift gate. Of the rest, most had liftgates anyway. I think the companies send this to a residence regardless of what was paid for just for their own insurance. I have always recieved a call to coordinate the delivery time etc. The point is, take the free shipping and work out the details with the dispatcher...these carriers have always been very friendly folks. If they won't send a liftgate truck, have them drop it at the local hardware store (they prefer this anyway) and get them to put it on your truck/trailer with their forks. There are many ways to work out a smooth transition into your basement. Also, the crate can be quickly broken down into several peices that can be moved solo...base with motor, top, extension wings etc. are all separate in there.
Up here it's been my experience that if it says residential delivery on the way bill, it will come with either a lift gate or a lot of paid muscle. Commercial deliveries don't require a lift gate unless requested.
This of course is all dependent on the nature of the goods.
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Edited 4/11/2008 1:59 pm by PeterDurand
If the shipping company knows that they are delivering to a residential address, it would be to their benefit to send your heavy saw in a truck with a liftgate. If they delivered it in a truck without a lift gate and you didn't have a forklift, they would have to go back to their warehouse, unload the saw, load it onto another with a lift gate, and drive back to your house. Many truckers just want it off of their truck and to be done with it.
Did you hear the one about the self-emptying truck? As the story goes, a load arrives at the warehouse and all the goods -heavy stuff- has fallen on the floor of the truck, off of the pallets. So the swampers say to the driver, "we ain't moving that mess. So the driver gets back in his truck and pushed a button and a hydraulic arm (similar in concept to a garbage truck's compactor) pushes the load onto the dock. Then he drives away, leaving the swampers to clean up.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
BobGood thinking. There are many here on Knots who are SC owners--maybe not the model saw you are looking at, but I've yet to read of any problems SC has not addressed in a very timely manner. I'd put their customer service up there with Lee Valley and Lie-Nielsen. I'm very impressed with the quality of my two SC tools. Tom"Notice that at no time do my fingers leave my hand"
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