Replies

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Aug 30, 2002 01:12am | #1

   It was one of the first products to fail in Consumer Reports now 5 year test of outdoor finishes. You can look in the June issues from 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002 at your local library.

1. 
   RSRose | Aug 30, 2002 01:44am | #2

   Howie,

   It failed as an outdoor protectant after 5 years?

   I'm really only interested in what UV protection it provides and how varnish will go down over it, if at all.

   Do you know if it has silicones in it?

   Rich

1. 
   JPGrout | Aug 30, 2002 04:31am | #3

   No I am not aware of any silicone in it. And no, it will not prevent color changes in hardwood especially cherry. In my opinion there isn't anything that will prevent the woods you mentioned from darkening with age. I mean look at the furniture you grew up with and I will about bet if it has a varnish, oil or just a wax finish on it it has darkened over the years. I think if you are looking for a certian shade or color that won't change over time the best I can think of would be a faux finish or formica. Good luck, Joe

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Aug 30, 2002 05:36pm | #8

   >>It failed as an outdoor protectant after 5 years?

   No, it was in the first group tested five years ago and failed in a couple of months after application.

   As far as UV protection. UV protection depends on filtering of the sunlight. The thicker the application, the better it will protect. That's the reason true marine exterior varnishes require at least 5-6 coats minimum to get UV protection. How much do you think you would get from something that has the consistancy of water?

1. 
   RSRose | Aug 30, 2002 09:01pm | #9

   Lunathree,

   Thanks. I'll take a look at the website.

   Howie,

   "How much do you think you would get from something that has the consistancy of water?"

   Dunno. That's why I asked for experiences. Maybe they have a super-secret, magic formula that beats the pants off everything else. Maybe it's snake oil. I used up all my "how much do I think" by the time I posted the question here.

   Are you satisfied that Consumer Reports found it to be much less than satisfactory? Not having seen the report and the methodology used in their test, I can't comment on that. But I have very little confidence in Consumer Reports as a reliable source. They frequently use flawed methods of testing, introduce huge bias into their methods and utterly fail to understand the nature of the product they're testing.

   I have no need to defend this product. So far there appear to be a lot of opinions, but no experiences. That could be because enough people got the word out that it doesn't work. I was curious.

   Thanks,

   Rich

1. 
   sorethum1 | Aug 30, 2002 10:53pm | #10

   I sprayed some Thompson's on a bench that was partially exposed to rain on the north side of my house, and it lasted a couple months at best, after which it looked like it had prevous to the finishing.  this year I put Minwax's latest outdoor finish (not the Helmsman) on the bench, and it has done well.  On my pine adirondack chair I made from scratch, on the south side of the house, the Minwax is only about 90% effective, with about 10% wear (graying on some horizontal surfaces near the edges), after 2-3 months.  I'll put another coat on next year.  Todd

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Aug 31, 2002 12:14am | #11

   It doesn't take rocket science to test outdoor coating products, only patience. You apply it, put the panel out in the elements and count the days until it fails. As I recall, CU is performing the test in both Florida and New York.

   Not surprisingly, the more opaque the finish, the longer it lasts as far as protecting the wood. As I recall, even the best clear products failed within a year. The best UV protection is to fully block the sun either with the finish or a cover. Ask us boaters.

3. 
   Splintie | Sep 01, 2002 07:46am | #12

   It would be easier to know what to say if we knew your purpose, but here's my 2 centavos worth of "how much do i think".

   I heard Armorall on top of the finish coat would protect the exotics' colors in my work. I never tried it myself, but i passed on the info to clients who asked and got some feedback that it worked. Not very scientific, but just another way to approach the UV thang. I visited the website cursorily and can't tell if there's silicone in it, but they have an invitation to contact them directly.

   Edited 9/1/2002 12:48:00 AM ET by SPLINTIE

4. 
   RSRose | Sep 01, 2002 10:25am | #13

   Splintie,

   Thanks. My only "purpose" is curiosity about others' experiences with Waterseal's UV inhibition as far as wood color change is concerned and the use of other finishes over it.

   I'm testing some UV inhibitors. If I find anything interesting, I'll shout. Maybe I need to test Waterseal under the conditions in which I'm interested. I can only get it in large quantities at present.

   Regarding Armor All. It is full of silicones. I thought the thread was here, but it may have been another forum. One of the forum participants expressed curiosity about using Armor All on wood. He eventually contacted someone at the company who confirmed the silicone content and discouraged use of Armor All on wood for any purpose.

   Rich

5. 
   Splintie | Sep 01, 2002 11:08pm | #14

   Thanks for the silicone info on Armorall. I don't put anything on my personal finishes except elbow grease and a Scotchbrite pad, but i will stop passing on this tidbit. I offer a free refinishing if they mess up their item with water or whatever, and i've gotten a few pieces returned for that. (The labor is miniscule compared to the goodwill the offer generates.) I've had to refinish a couple tables contaminated with silicone (NOT for free!)...no fun at all.

   I wondered about your purpose as to whether it was indoor or outdoor, and whether what you intended to use for a topcoat mattered. If you find anything on UV inhibitors in addition to what the manufacturers already add to lacquers, i would be delighted to know.  

2. 
   DaveinPa | Aug 30, 2002 05:27am | #4

   I was an assistaant manager of a Sears Home Improvement Department in a full line store and can tell you from experince that Thompspns is JUNK. Yes it has a wax base of some sort and was told by Sherwin-Williams that unless you do it every year its useless. I use Valspar severe weather deck protector. It also has an UV protectent in it. Its been on the deck of my shed for two years with no problems.

   Dave in Pa.

3. 
   StanleyNiemiec | Aug 30, 2002 08:35am | #5

   I was pretty good friends with a Professor at a major university Forest Products Department whose area of expertise was wood degradation (by insects, bacteria, fungi and general weathering/UV).  This learned and expert individual would, in private, refer to products like Thompson's water seal or whatever the ilk is called, as Fru-Fru juice.

   Based on the research I have read, these products are generally worthless; maybe even counter-protective because they give people a false level of confidence.  If there is not UV protector, sunlight will penetrate through a clear finish and degrade the wood surface layer; if no fungicide is included the oils are just another source of food/sustance for bacteria, molds and fungi (therein facilitating innoculation/growth of these wood destructive organisms).  Oil finishes are virtually worthless barriers in retarding vaporous water adsorption/desorption, and while the wax is a water repellant, on a horizontal surface, the water sits instead of being able to run-off (and eventually gets absorbed).  Besides penetration into the wood using surface applications is truly minimal.

1. 
   RSRose | Aug 30, 2002 09:15am | #6

   Thanks guys,

   Didn't mean to start a flame. Just wanted information about its UV retardant ability, and perhaps its general composition.

   I don't have any decks to seal or protect from water. I use paint to accomplish that.

   Rich

1. 
   luna3 | Aug 30, 2002 01:30pm | #7

   Rich,

   I used Flood's CWF-UV on my hemlock sided house. It's been 3 years now and it seems to be holding up OK. They have a website where you can check it out. They're also good about answering inquiries.

4. 
   CRATE4U | Sep 02, 2002 05:21am | #15

   I have used thompson's on wood decks i've built and on redwood with what seems to be good results. One deck I know of in the the mid west has never been treated again after the initial application 6years ago still looks good though it turned the expected silver gray after about 2 years. I could probably pressure wash it and recoat with thompson's and bring back some color! On the other hand I treated some adirondack chairs with olympic brand waterseal with uv protectant then sprayed tung oil after that dried they still look as good now as they did in feburary! If it any question They are sitting outside in direct sun in phoenix,az. take a look at my web-site if interested they are on the first page. The wood is Western Red Cedar and I thought this would be a good test to see how long it takes for them to turn gray in this hot sunshine state.    http://www.awoodpro.com                                                                                                       Thanks for the reply to my earlier post. Checked out the site got some usful info.  to finish these counter tops.      A humble woodworker.                         

1. 
   RSRose | Sep 02, 2002 05:57am | #16

   Outback,

   Thanks. I checked out your website. Fine looking chairs there.

   If the Olympic brand is giving some durability under those conditions, it must be pretty good. I don't think that the tung oil is worth anything in that application. Eventually even the Olympic product will go. Nothing can stand up to that kind of UV exposure.

   My original question had to do with UV protection afforded by Thompsons, not for outdoor use, though. If the Olympic is standing up so well in your application, I'll give it a look, also.

   I'm just trying out various products regarding delaying UV induced color changes (indoors).

   Rich

1. 
   Biscardi | Sep 02, 2002 06:01am | #17

   I had a friend who used old used motor oil on his ouside furiture. It always looked great, didn't smell and wasn't greasy. Is this a reasonable thing to do?

   Frank

1. 
   RSRose | Sep 02, 2002 08:29am | #18

   Yeah,

   But only if it is HIGH quality used motor oil, something like Quaker State.

   I just hate it when people use the cheap stuff. I think that it's so tacky when you go to someone's barbeque and find they have used cheap used motor oil on their out door furniture.

   Rich