Now I know this one will get a few fingers on the keys. Most guys that use hand saws for fine work are set in their ways. I am. I think. Years ago I said that about my western stlye push saw with a polished brass stiffner and a beautiful rosewood handle that I made all by myself. I loved it.
My friend shows up with a small cabinet he made with these tiny pins and crisp dovetails that watered my eyes. OK- how? He pulled out his Japanese saw and proceeded to show off. I wasn’t hooked yet. It took a few test runs and a little adjusting.
No, I’m not selling Japanese saws to the faithful and happy. Just try one out if a friend has one hanging on the wall. You might like them. They are different and they take a little re-thinking at first and then you do it without a second thought. Just so you don’t think I went off the edge completely, I don’t like pulling my handplanes. I have tried and its just not a good fit for me.
I do a bunch of full dovetailing and just about as many half-blind dovetails in my case work projects. I love the joint and I am willing to put the extra time into it mostly for self satisfaction. The japenese saw has been my inspiration to do more and more. I actually like cutting with the saw after 25 years. I’m slow but I’ll get it just right some day.
Dovetails and Pins: Background. I like to cut my pins first. Oh no there goes half of the world of woodworkers shaking their heads. Its just the way I was taught and it is easier for my simple mind to go thru the steps. I am not Frank Klaus cutting at 120 mph with a bow saw. Get the picture. My point. Either way you do it, the fit is what this guy is checking.
Cutting to a line was mentioned in another thread and one contributor mentioned not even scribing/drawing a line. Maybe for him but not me. For years, I used the knife to scribe a line. As I have gotten older and can’t find my reading glasses I have to use a pencil line. I think lines are important– very important. I have lines on both sides of the board and across the top when I practice on a scrap piece before I begin dovetaling. That’s me and I make most of my students do this over and over till they cut to the line. I seen their learning curve and I know this works for many.
When you cut your pins(that is first), you can be off a little and clean it up with a chisel. When you mate the pin to the tail board and scribe the hole for the pin you aren’t home free. You are cutting to the inside face of the joint. If you can not cut a straight line across the board, your pins will hang up when you push them in or worse yet you’ll have a big gap on the face side of the joint — unhappy.
Last point: do pins and tails have a certain appeal when done a certain way or is it just being finnicky and dwelling on minutia? That’s for you to answer. For me, I just don’t like 6:1 dovetails. They look to fishy. My eyes like the smaller pins and a little less flare 8:1 is a good one. All of this happens a whole lot faster for you if you cut first time to the line with accuracy and confidence. This comes from practicing with your saw.
This is a long thread, hopefully not too long. I am responding to a couple of nice emails asking about some of the points mentioned. I would have responded directly but thought …. maybe I can stir up a little chatter making a post outside the general discussion area.
As always, a couple of photos for critique and comments.
later
Edited 10/24/2007 2:02 pm ET by danmart
Replies
I have both Western and Japanese style saws, and I use them all. It just depends upon the task or my mood as far as which I choose. They both have their plus and minuses, but I love 'em all.
I do tails first, but certainly understand how if you like tiny pins, marking would be easier to go the other way.
No matter how good I get at sawing to a line, I'm still not 100% in all planes all the time on every cut - and DTs require lots of cuts sometimes. I tend to err on the waste side (just barely) and depend on some reasonably minor paring if anything is tight or out of whack.
I don't leave nearly as much extra on the ends as you did in your pics, though I definitely leave some to allow clean-up of the end grain on both tails and pins.
I like pins to be significantly smaller than tails, but I don't look for triangles where the saw blade's thickness barely clears the top of the pin slot.
I mark with a knife as this guides any necessary paring better for me.
I find the species of wood matters a good deal in how the joint needs to be cut. Softer species, like Poplar, are ever so much more forgiving than say, maple.
Ah the enviable switch hitter(sawyer). I wish I could put some time on the backsaws just for fun. I just don't reach for them and they sit there sharp as a razor and not being used. They were gifts or they would be gone. As you know the old western push saws are easy as pie to sharpen. I miss that. With the Japanese saw I fumble around and give in to the urge.
Years ago when I was flying into Yakota AB, I could get down to Miki City where all of the hand made chisels are laminated together. The home of the Samurai sword makers. On a tip from Toshia Odate(FWW) in 1979, I made the journey out to the middle of nowhere Japan. This is not the place where tourists go and I was the only white man in the nearest 10 miles. Thats a bunch in Japan. Had a ball with the hand signals and got a set of 10 chisels. They were beautiful. In another thread I'll tell you where they are.
Building dozens and dozens of Windsor chairs at one point had me focused on drill bits and saw blades. One arm chair had about 50 holes to be bored and 17 spindle ends to be trimmed. At a demonstration by Mike Dunbar, I watched as he used a coping saw to cut the spindles with glue half dried. That was enough for me. At 30 cents a blade, I can wear out a coping blade, change it and press on with a major grin on my face. No more cleaning the saw teeth on a nice saw. I don't care for his tastes in chairs but Dunbar is as tight as a crab's a.. in low tide. I like that. So... cutting on the pull western style is good too.
later
Edited 10/24/2007 5:21 pm ET by danmart
Edited 10/24/2007 5:22 pm ET by danmart
Sounds like you've cut many many more than me! I'm a switch hitter I suppose, equally mediocre with both ;-) I do enjoy using both types in any event.
Sounds like you've had some fantastic woodworking adventures. Japanese samurai chisels hot off the forge and Mike Dunbar to boot!
As for flush cutting, I love my little Japanese "wood nail" saw I got from Japan Woodworker. So far a careful wipe or two with a damp rag has taken care of any glue during or right after use.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled