I would like to buy sustainably harvested/produced wood for my projects, but there does not seem to be much consumer-oriented info on the Internet. I am looking for everything from a list of types of woods that are available, trustworthiness of certification groups, and most to the point — where I can find a good selection of domestic and foreign woods in the Los Angeles area. Anyone have pointers general or specific?
Thanks –
Peter
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Replies
losttexan
does Lyptus count? Do a search on that and see what you find out. Seems to be pretty widely available now.
Consider urban tree salvage. Some cities have programs to harvest urban trees for lumber.
Recycled timber. There are people doing business recovering old wood - from barn wood to old floors.
I don't have any specific references for any of these, but that's what comes to mind.
LOsttexan,
Are you aware that in much of America there are more large hardwood trees now than there were at the turn of the century. In 1900 Minnesota had an estimated 5 million trees with a diameter greater than 18 inches.. Todays best guesstimate puts today's number around 22 million..
Frenchy, You do realize that around 1900 is right about when everything as far west as Minnesota, and my home state of Arkansas had mostly been clear-cut of their virgin timber ? The only thing large than that which wasn't cut was hollow, and most of those have been blown away because they couldn't stand against strong winds without other robust trees around them.I don't think of 18" as much of a tree, Down on that level, they are harvesting wood fiber. How many trees can Minnesota claim to have over 4' - 5' in diameter?
Whatever the number, they are not out in the woods, they are all around old home-places, town squares, parks, or old cemeteries, and it is a shame, but most of those go to land-fills or the chipper, and they may contain the best wood around.That is what I bought my mill for anyway.
Kieth Newton,
Few hardwood trees ever get to that size.. Some of the wood I bought for my house was old growth white oak. I counted 270 rings on one tree.. But most trees over two hundred years old were pretty well hollowed out (white oak tends to decay after 200 years) While there are still some large eastern white pine tress from prestatehood days up in Northern Minnesota even they aren't that large. Three to four feet are still brought in regularly but since no sawmill is really well equiped to handle them that size much of the wood is wasted..
The sawmill I buy from has a 54 inch blade which will yield a slice of wood 22 inches across as their upper limit.. There was a sawmill down in the southeastern part of the state that had a top and bottom blade arrangement that could yield a piece of wood 42 inches wide but because of other factors still couldn't handle 4 foot logs..
Depending on what your using it for, poplar is a very sustainable resource. I consider it to be, probably, the world's largest weed.
Peter, I would not lose any sleep over the sustainability issue: we woodworkers only account for a very very small percentage of the timbers consumed. Also don't believe everything you read/see on the web about this subject of sustainablity-I will stick my neck out and say that the word has no meaning in particular when applied to timbers from Africa-Mozambique being a prime example. There was an article in Fine Woodworking a few years ago which referred to sustainable supplies of Muninga(pterocarpus angolensis) and African mahogany from that country-a joke, especially as I am familiar with the intrepid gentleman who cuts and exports the stuff.
Anthow, if you want lists, persevere with the internet-even I found several companies from all over giving that type of info.
HI Tex,
Try lyptus. a eucalyptus hybrid grown on plantations in Brazil. Similar to Mahogany in grain and hardness. Red tones. Is quite a bit cheaper than the traditional hardwoods. I have not used it myself but am considering it for my next project. I just looked it up on the internet last night and found some good info.
For lumber in LA, Try Bonhoff Lumber (my personal favorite) in East LA. They tend to be a bit scheaper, have good selection and are helpful if you want to look through a stack for just the right piece. There is also Swaner Hardwoods in The burbank area and Arroyo Hardwoods in Pasadena (they tend to be quite a bit more expensive than most but have a pretty interesting selection). Further south in the OC, there is Grahnal Lumber (spelling?) which OK. I am still exploring down here. I hope that is helpful.-Eric
losttexan, if your local timber merchant participates in 'environmentally sound wood supply' they will have a member of staff that deals with this issue. The timber merchants that do almost certainly are involved with importing tropical hardwoods into the country. If they are involved in such schemes then upon request they will be able to provide you with Forest Management (FM)certificates and evidence of a 'chain of custody'.
Acronyms you can punch into search engines for more information are listed below. How far and how deep you want to get into the subject is up to you, but your first port of call once you've boned up a bit on the topic is your timber (lumber) merchant. Environmental issues are becoming more of an issue and customers are asking questions about our wood sources.
Whether or not we as small time woodworkers are major causes of forest loss is neither here nor there in many instances-- it's our customers that ask the questions and we often need answers that satisfy them.
FFCS – Finnish Forest Certification System
Richard Jones Furniture
Not sure where you are but use USA hardwoods.. I read somewhere that we have more trees now than we did back in to 20's.. Check the web links and some hardwood suppliers state if from 'sustainable harvested' forests..
Sorry nothing specific.. A Google on USA hardwoods will give you more stuff to read than you want!
Losttexan,
I don't have any suggestions in your area to buy from, but I do have a good article on most of the different certifications. I could e-mail it to you if you are interested. I am looking into the same thing. Good luck in your search.
Regards the "more trees now than in 1920" or similar:
Technically, this is true since for each old growth Pine, Redwood, Fir or Spruce, 65 - 6" seedlings are planted, all in mono crop style, to be harvested in 20 to 40 years. This is "information" freely distributed by Big Timber to ease the conscience of those in America that might ask about sourcing. The old growth will all be gone in our lifetime, except for the less than one-ten thousandth of one per cent set aside in "Parks."
I highly recommend "The Golden Spruce" by John Vaillant, for its history of US logging in general, and West Coast logging in particular.
To respond to the question at hand, US hardwoods are sustainably harvested. 95% comes from private landowners in small enough tracts to where wholesale clear cuts are not desirable.
A true purist also has two related sources: Salvaged wood from buildings that are being dismantled, and underwater wood that is now harvested from lakes and rivers throughout the US.
As woodworkers, the best thing we can do is to use wood as if it is a precious resource, and build for the long term with good materials, design and construction.
Dave S
The old growth will all be gone in our lifetime..To bad they don't try and dig up all that timber at Mt Saint Helens..
Maybe to hard to get it out? Probably all soft wood?
Most of the timber downed in the Mount St. Helens eruption was harvested. There were several large areas that the Government left alone to see how the natural reforestation progressed. The trees were Douglas Fir and Western Hemlock.
You're right on the mark. I lived in Northern CA for a brief time and witnessed many a clear cut. Quite disturbing and ugly. Even after replanting the forest is not the same. Essentially it becomes a tree farm and a mono culture as you describe. In an old growth forest many different species of timber can be found. After a clear cut the timber companies plant only trees that have commercial viability.
Thanks all. Very handy especially about U.S. hardwoods. The rainforest stuff is what I am particularly concerned about. I asked about the bubinga handles of some chisels I wanted and was told that the source of the wood was plantation "as far as our dealer knows" or something like that -- something to make me wonder if ignorance wasn't bliss in that instance. As for using small amounts of wood, I appreciate woodworkers are not much part of the problem, but I still prefer to avoid adding to it if possible. Tough when you see some of that gorgeous wood out there...
The problem here is that people have choosen up sides in a situation where the underlying economics and ecology are neither fully understood. But the conservative choice of not cutting certain trees, may have negative impacts just as well as the rape the landscape choices. It is the distributional issues that are the thorniest. Abject poverty for a poor farmer prevented from clearing land and growing food, or a product for market is hard to balance against the pluses and minuses of global warming, or against the ability of developed nations to incur more pollution in aid of their standard of living.
I certainly don't have any answers, and in a politicized subject, I seriously doubt that anyone has a really solid understanding of the wide spread impacts of various methods of "sustainable" production.
Some trees need to be cut.. Make room for new ones!
I agree that the politics and economics of logging the rainforest are inextricably linked. In a global economy developing societies and countries feel left out if they don't participate in the game. Global organizations like The World Bank tell countries what crops to plant to be "economically viable" in lieu of recieving development aid. Countries that were once subsistance based societies become part of a supply network trading cash crops to the rest of the world. They now become dependent on outside sources of food and must raise the money to feed their own populations. No longer able to feed their populations on just agricultural sources of revenue many countries exploit their timber, mineral, and land resources unabatedly without consideration of the longterm consequences.
Also, on the use of old growth softwood logs, most mills, arent even set up to use logs over 18 or so inches and even if they are, they mess up the flow of materials, so most mills dont want anything to do with them. Their are a few mills that specialize in using large diameter logs, like up to 3 feet, to produce large timbers and such, but they generally buy their logs from the larger mills, when a log that is to big for studs, and dimension and such comes thru.
Unless it has just changed recently, the US is one of the last countries in the world to export whole logs. Most countries only export boards so that jobs are created in their nation, for the people that live with the resource. The old growth is a premium product, mostly going to export. This helps balance out all the crap we buy from China/elsewhere.
Fair trade is exchanging a 900 year old Doug Fir, 8 feet in diameter, 150' total length, for disposable cellphones, .29 cent underwear, and particle board and paper furniture.
Chain of possession and certification are the two methods used to assure buyers that products have been responsibly harvested and made. FSC is one of the larger, independent Certification programs, with Big Timber, following suit with their doublespeak programs to confuse and defuse the issue.
Last month Weyerhauser corp. announced they'll be closing their "Large log" sawmill in Aberdee, Wa. I'd assume that's because there aren't enough large trees left to keep the mill operational.
Most likely, they have run out of land to buy logs off of. And regardless, a large log mill is set up for logs from 18-24" on the small end diameter.
Scott - I'd like that article very much. My email is [email protected]. thanks!
It does feel great to buy sustainably harvested wood, especially from tropical forests. Here's an article about the source of my new deck (pic's attached; material is machiche). At the yard they have a map of the preserve, with each harvestable tree GPS located. You can actually read the ID info off the lumber and see which tree it came from - pretty cool. More important to me is the way it supports the local economy and actually preserves the forest for the long haul.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/08/22/MNGJKEBB1V1.DTL&hw=guatemala+forest&sn=001&sc=1000
FYI, finish is Cabot's Australian Timber Oil. Sorry for the hijack, but it just got finished and we're lovin it!!
I have built a couple deck benches using Machiche -- I'd like to protect the wood without having to go through too much effort on re-invigorating. Any thoughts?Matt
Where are you located? That defines your options. If you are in a low-VOC state (e.g. California) your choices are much different than if you are not. Translation: you can't get the good stuff here.
If you have access to the higher VOC materials )I don't have experience with these products, but they get lots of good press on the forums):
TWC 100 (NOT 500, that's the low VOC and sounds like it doesn't work)
Waterlox
If you are in a low VOC state:
Preservawood - oil based, used by lots of contractors here in CA.
SuperdeckExotic Hardwood Finish & Sealer - water based, more like a polyurethane. One of the local pro's just switched from Preservawood to this - he uses it in commercial applications.
Regardless, the machiche goes grey very quickly so get something on it ASAP. Otherwise, plan on sanding. I tried a sample of the Preservawood and it will bring back some of the color since it's penetrating; the Superdeck does not.
Whatever you do, avoid Cabot's Australian Timber Oil. Pretty close to useless unless it's in a totally sun & rain protected area.
I have been told that West Virginia has produced trees more that twice as fast as they have been harvested for many years.
Read the stuff from this link and you'll understand why Home Depot does not cater to fine woodworkers....
http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/homedwood.htm
I think these people would probably even object to Lyptus wood.
losttexan,
Are you looking for documentation or just sustainable sources? There is a great deal of difference.. For example tree surgeons might well be a source for sustainable wood.. The tree growing in somebodies back yard can be harvested without impact to any Eco system.. They are harvested because of considerations other than a source of lumber.
In addition in some locations (Minnesota for example) today has far more large mature trees than we had 50 years ago (trees over 12 inches we have over 22 million more today than we had 50 years ago) I haven't researched Wisconsin but I am inclined to believe that to also be the case..
Sustainability should mean that the item (items) made with the wood from the tree last longer than the time required to grow it's replacement.. Thus it's important to factor in the quality of your workmanship.. If you build quality stuff that your children and grandchildren want to keep it's possible for you to use wood wisely. However if you tend to make stuff that isn't heirloom quality you are at fault and not your supplier.
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