Hello everyone,
I am looking for a little help on a project I am looking at. A restaurant full of tables and a couple of bars that need to be refinished. Can I strip the poly off, sand and re-stain over the old stain and get a decent finish. I am looking for a cost effective method if it exists. The current stain is very dark and I intend to have it matched as closely as possible. The reason I would like to try to leave the stain is because of the bars which need to be done in an overnight process. The tables I should be able to remove at like 3 at a time.
Chemical strippers? Heat Gun? Planer?
Any help or suggestions will be appreciated
Thanks,
Jeb
Replies
First question is why you would think the current finish is "poly". Single part polyurethane varnish is almost never used by professional finishers, though if the bars were finished on site that might be the case.
Have you determined whether the color was applied as a stain, or as a toner?
What kind of wood is this, and are you sure it is all solid wood?
Jeb,
Steve Schoene brings up several good points. I agree with all of them.
I do not want to appear negative, but you really need to do some serious research. The cost of stripping chemicals/finishing products has skyrocketed in the last 18 months. If there is a commercial strip shop in your area, ask them for a quote, maybe sub out the tables, do the bars yourself, if you can find a topcoat that will stand up to heavy use as a bar. Overnight completion sounds very hard to accomplish to me, but I know it is done by pros who use high-tech materials and equipment.
Ventilation during and after stripping and finishing?
Any repair work necessary?
Pete
I do not know weather it is a stain or something else at this point. That is why I am here to find out. I will be picking up a table this weekend to see what it will take to refinish. I do not know if they are solid wood and am assuming so at this point. I have seen this type of table in other restaurant/coffee shops before and know that they are a heavy table which is why I believe it to be solid wood. They have gotten other bids that were just too high. As far as refinishing the bars go I understand how difficult it may be to do in an overnight process. Have to tent them negative air and get them stripped and refinished in something like 12hrs. Brings me back to the tables as the starting process. There may not be a cost effective way to do it. I am posting here for suggestions, insight and what ever else you guys can help me with. Knots and breaktime have been a great resource for me and my small business. Thank you for all of your help so far as it is giving me a list to research. It is all about the research on this for me.Regards,
Jeb
Jeb,
Quick points-
If there have been other bids, all too high, that probably says alot about the problems of the job.
If the table doesn't strip with off the shelf strippers (Kutzit,Zip Strip, etc.) a commercial stripper operation (nasty chemicals!) is probably going to be necessaary.
why do they need refinishing?
good luck, let us know outcome.
Pete
Trying to build on "why do they need refinishing" Coould they be really really well cleaned and "done" with something like Howard's Restor-a-Finish. Maybe even including a good quick light sanding and a topcoat of a good finish. Legs of the tables might not need anything.
PROS can laugh at me for suggesting this BUT I urge the OP to give it a thought. I absolutely KNOW what it takes to refinish furniture.Gretchen
I don't think a really good cleaning will work. They have metal legs/stands. This is a restaurant if I hadn't mentioned it. From what I noticed on my initial walk through they seem to be wearing thin on top. Probably not an epoxy finish. I have been doing some research. I am picking up a table this weekend to start with and to see what it will cost to refinish. I am hoping that I can give them such a finish that they just can't turn it down no matter the cost.(cost within reason)
Well, with metal legs you have a really good chance of doing a fairly fast job, I would think. Stripping a clear finish is not anything like doing paint, assuming it isn't a bulletproof epoxy or such.
I'd do four at a time, put on a heavy stripper and have at it. Doing this rather than a dip tank will result in much less "after work" like raised grain and sanding. Just be sure to remove all the stripper with mineral spirits or your finish will be compromised.Gretchen
Gretchen,
Thanks for the input. I believe that I have 3 tables to work with that I would be rotating in/out. That has been my plan from the get go. The mineral spirits tip will probably save me allot of headache thank you for that step. Any tips for the stripper?Jeb
Are you certain that the tables and bar have the same finish? It's quite likely that the tables are "off the shelf", with the bar made locally and the finishes/stains may not the same. Being able to do one easily won't guaranty the other will refinish the same. If you can get a cupboard door or drawer front from behind the bar when you pick up the table gives you the opportunity to see if it will behave like the table's finish.
QCInspector,I believe you are right on that. Now that I think about bit I did not do that close of a comparison. The tables are definitely off the shelf as I have seen the same style in other restaurants before. The bar tops I would imagine are made to order on site. Probably before the current owner had the place. This may also be useful as a selling point. I do not know how critical it is to perfectly match the 2 as long as they are close. The tables are not connected to or sit as high as the bar so they could be done such away that they appear to look the same. At this point I am more concerned with finding a cost effective method to refinishing everything.Jeb
I just use a heavy duty methylene chloride stripper and get the job done the first time around. For that amount of use you might want a respirator unless you are working in open air. Methylene chloride is heavy-so choose a container of stripper that is the heaviest of those you have to choose from.
I use 00 steel wool pads, opened out to expose the greatest amount of surface to remove the vestiges of the stripper, after I have used a dull putty knife to scrape up the "sludge" of stripper/finish. The stripper should not need to set on the finish (since it is "clear" and not paint), but do let it "do its work" of raising the finish. And then the mineral spirits.
The color of your stripped table top when it is wet with the mineral spirits is the color you will obtain when you apply a clear finish to the top--just an FYI. When it is dry from the MS it may look very light, so don't be fooled. I rarely have to do any sanding using this kind of removal of finish.Gretchen
Hi Gretchen,If I understand this right. I am removing the clear coat.Stained finish will remain.Can I stain over stain with the same or similar color. It is a very dark stain on it now.Thanks for your help!!Jeb
No, the MC stripper will remove most of the stain as well as the clear coat. If the wood is something with open pores like oak, it may be very difficult to get all the color out of the pores. That isn't likely to be much a problem if you are restaining a similar color. However, make sure that you give special attention to getting all the stripper residue off. This usually includes some wax and copious amounts of mineral spirits, using plenty of towels so you don't just smear it around.
I pretty much agree with what Steve says although I have had some things where the stain remains. What he says about oak is very true--at least with paint in the pores.
I guess you'll just have to try it to see. You may actually like it better with the color after stripping--who knows.Gretchen
Gretchen,
I agree with your points, from sorry, hard experience!
Jeb seems to be a realist, asking and doing research.
Pete
PCM,I figured that I would need more of a commercial stripper have even considered setting up a dip tank. I have no idea what to get for a commercial stripper though. Any suggestions?? Peelaway??I still have research to do.
Jeb,
I have no info/knowledge about commercial stripping. I would thoroughly research the Minn. EPA, all the other bureaucracies that control chemical use. You will be crossing the line from off the shelf Zip Strip to commercial (licensed in Minn.?) operations.
There has been a strong rumor in the stripping world that these commercial chemicals are going to be outlawed by the various states (NY, Penna, CA, etc.), which will force the manufacturers to reduce the strength of their products (they have done so several times in Kutzit, Citristrip, etc).
If you can set up a stripping op that will be allowed to operate for a long time, there probably is a market for it in your area.
The only product line I have is http://www.woodfinisherssupply.com.
Good luck, let us know
Pete
Jeb,
How did you make out this past weekend?
Pete
Thanks for your interest PCM,I got the table but I am having problems matching stain in a small quantity. I am doing a test run on one table to figure out what it will cost to do the whole lot. Some of the local suppliers will match the stain but I have to buy a whole gallon. It isn't much better coming from rockler to purchase and mix to try to match as buy the time I get what I want I will have spent as much as getting it matched.I just can't afford to get stuck with that much money into this if the owner doesn't buy.At this point I am going to have to bow down go talk with the owner and explain what I have going. Not much sense to doing a test run that won't be usable. I know how much it is going to take at this point I just wanted a finished product so they couldn't say no.Jeb
How did the clear coat strip off?
If there any big box stores or even WalMart close by you might be able to get close on the stain color with Minwax (not my favorite stain, but it should be cheaper than ordering from Rockler or other catalogs).
Builder supplies, hardware stores, etc., usually have catalogs from suppliers, even if they don't usually stock the line.
Good luck!
Pete
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