Replies

1. 
   Samson | Feb 07, 2009 07:24am | #1

   Can you be a little more specific or post a picture?  How large and deep a crack exactly where on the boards?  Poplar is not very espensive.  If it's just one board, and its part of project you will be putting any significant work into, I'd suggest buying another.  Chances are, this one was not dried correctly.

1. 
   wolfonce | Feb 07, 2009 08:32am | #2

   Thank you. The cracks are almost dead middle and between 1 and 2 inches. none are over 1/64 so not big. I would get more wood but it is a 2 and 1/2 hour drive to get more. The other reason is I am trying to learn what may be ok and what wood do I need to use to keep warm instead of for projects. I will get pictures and post them in the morning.

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Feb 07, 2009 09:52am | #3

   Dave,Are these cracks showing up near the pith, the center of the tree? That is not uncommon at all. Looking forward to pics...Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   wolfonce | Feb 07, 2009 09:06pm | #6

   See post to samson. I took three pix. crack are small but I think you can see them ok. Thanx, Dave

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Feb 08, 2009 04:51am | #7

   Dave,I'm puzzled. I thought you referring to cracks on the face. Do you have a picture showing the end grain?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

2. 
   wolfonce | Feb 08, 2009 05:33am | #8

   hang on a second. I have to go use the saw and i will have an end grain pix

3. 
   wolfonce | Feb 08, 2009 05:52am | #9

   ok this is the best pix I can get. You can see the cracks are not deep at all. I am sure they will not cause problems but I am not positive so that is why I am pursuing this.

   
4. 
   wolfonce | Feb 08, 2009 05:59am | #10

   I know what you mean about surface cracks and no there are none. If it was that bad I really would return this wood. I am still new to this part of woodworking I have seen lots of stress cracks in KD fir but in construction we just don't worry about it because it does not alter the structural ability of the wood.

5. 
   flairwoodworks | Feb 08, 2009 06:01am | #11

   Still puzzled. The pith is nowhere near the lumber you have. Perhaps (wind) shake?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

6. 
   wolfonce | Feb 08, 2009 06:05am | #12

   OK that is a new term. does it carry further, does the crack widen?

7. 
   flairwoodworks | Feb 08, 2009 06:09am | #13

   Sorry, I am wrong about shake. Shake occurs along growth rings, either from the tree swaying aggressively side to side (wind shake) or from a big impact, such as the tree falling. Shake often goes a long, long way. I'm not certain that it would go the entire length of the tree, but I have seen 7' long pieces of Doug fir with shake the entire length of the board. I was able to wedge the wood apart along the shake line to split the VG fir. (Or is that quartersawn fir?)Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

8. 
   Thorvald | Feb 09, 2009 01:17am | #18

   I've seen this kind of thing before, but it's been a long time, so I don't recall precisely what I was dealing with other than the wood was poplar or something similar. 

   Occurs to me to wonder whether the problem is akin to honeycomb in oak; i.e., a result of the wood having been dried too fast and some of the internal fibers crushed.  If that did happen in a fine-grained wood, the cracks would be small -- not like the great crevices I've seen in oak.  Just speculation on my part -- does anyone know whether this actually happens in poplar?  If this were the case, I wouldn't expect the cracks to expand in the normal course of events.  Verne

   If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to cut it up and make something with it . . . what a waste!<!----><!----><!---->

9. 
   SteveSchoene | Feb 09, 2009 02:40am | #19

   This sort of honeycombing isn't all that rare with wood from the borg.  How do you think the mills get rid of marginal lumber.  It may not be so prevalent now with the overall demand for lumber down so much that there appears to be less junk that needs to be moved.  No need to make 2x4's from trees that can only yield 2 of them. 

10. 
    KeithNewton | Feb 09, 2009 05:43pm | #20

    I don't think this has anything to do with a defect in the wood or drying. I think they are just scratches in the surface due to sliding against a bur of metal that has been dinged, or someone may have scored it taking off a wrapping.

11. 
    wolfonce | Feb 09, 2009 06:06pm | #21

    Keith, These are not scratches. They appeared after milling. I took some of the boards and further milled them to see how far they went. They appear to be very shallow, just past the milled edge. It is as if milling causes them, as if I am relieving stress and the crack is the result. However.... lets go back to the only question. Has anyone any knowledge of whether the boards will deteriorate more as time goes on. I don't want an unhappy customer but if the wood is now stable the cracks will not affect the appearance of the doors and I can continue.

12. 
    KeithNewton | Feb 09, 2009 06:20pm | #22

    So let me ask you a question. Did you mill that surface? If you did, what did you use to make that surface, and have you felt of all of the edges / corners of that tool to see if there is a bur somewhere? Since they are on the edge of an annual ring, any check would actually be called a ring shake. It would be very unlikely that it would end, just slightly straight along an edge, yet not appear on the ends. As for fixing small checks, I often use thin cyanoacrylate to fill and glue defects that can't be milled away, or discarded on woods that may be too valuable to discard. Poplar is not one of the woods that fall into that category in my shop, but maybe it is in yours.

13. 
    wolfonce | Feb 09, 2009 06:52pm | #23

    Good morning Keith. Yes I milled the edge. No there are no burs on any of our cutters and this board was milled on different tools and the crack was still there. As far as value of wood we may have different goals here. All wood has value as we are making a product and we wish to make a good product and a little profit as well so we can not discard wood without much thought and being sure it is not usable. I am learning as I go and really appreciate the expert advise I get here on Knots, from everyone. If this is ring shake is it stable?

14. 
    KeithNewton | Feb 09, 2009 10:39pm | #24

    sometime it is hard to tell where it ends. Usually it goes farther than you may be able to see with the naked eye. If you stand it up, and fill it with the CA glue, you will get to see how much more the check runs by watching it wet out. If it is open on the bottom, you will see where it runs out down there, but a quick spray with the activator will cause it to kick instantly, and self-dam, if you go right back to filling the top before the action of the accelerator evaporates. Since the CA glue is about $8 ~ $10 for about 2 oz. it may not be cost effective on cheap wood, which is the point that I was making. Yesterday, I was cutting some leg blanks from 16/4 walnut, and one of them had a small ring shake in it that I used the CA for. Since it was in an area that would not be very structural, I filled it like this before turning it. After I was done, it looked like a natural streak in the wood.

2. 
   wolfonce | Feb 07, 2009 09:04pm | #5

   one crack is about 2" and the others are around 16" long. They follow a mill line. I was routing for a panel.

   
2. 
   SteveSchoene | Feb 07, 2009 03:48pm | #4

   By any chance did your poplar come from one of the big box stores? 

   Without seeing a picture it is hard to be certain, but it sounds like you have honeycomb.  It's a drying defect, caused by less than wonderful proceedures in the kiln drying operation.  This is not a good thing at all. 

   This honeycomb is often associated with casehardening, so one test to see if that is really the problem is to see if a resawn board cups toward the center.  Be careful with this on a table saw, since this kind of wood movement can lead to kickback.  That's a major reason for the splitter.  Use it. 

3. 
   WillGeorge | Feb 08, 2009 05:05pm | #14

   Sir I have no idea!

   I purchase and use poplar all the time. I have never seen 'stress cracks in the middle'. Seems hatefull but not really.. Why did you buy them them in the first place?

   However, as much as I like poplar, it will split along the grain if given a big enough wack along a LONG length of it. I have no idea why!

1. 
   wolfonce | Feb 08, 2009 05:20pm | #15

   We use poplar for FF and door on our painted cabinets. I buy a lot of it and have not had much in the way of problems but my original question was will the cracks continue to develop and cause more problems further down the road. I think this wood is stable but I would like to be more sure.

1. 
   WillGeorge | Feb 08, 2009 05:54pm | #16

   I think this wood is stable but I would like to be more sure.

   All I can say is wood is wood and it will do what ever it wants to do. Maybe some butterflies on the back? Or the top if 'accents?'

1. 
   wolfonce | Feb 08, 2009 06:06pm | #17

   Thank you willgeorge. I will try that