Replies

1. 
   ring | Sep 26, 2009 08:41pm | #1

   It is more than just common, it's what industry is all about. Calling it "cherry" or "oak" or whatever seems to hurt our pride as woodworkers, but no one in the furniture industry thinks twice about it. It's kind of like McDonalds calling what they make "hamburger". We all know that there are "hamburgers" and then there are "hamburgers".

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?lang=e&id=1

2. 
   Senomozi | Sep 26, 2009 11:25pm | #2

   In my experience the term "solid" is often used in conjunction with the wood species to differentiate veneered furniture from "real" wood furniture. E.g. solid oak, solid cherry and so on. But they don't always use the word solid even when the furniture is made from "real" wood.

3. 
   oldusty | Sep 27, 2009 02:10am | #3

     In all fairness , the simple fact that a piece may be veneered can't determine the quality , some are very fine .

              As Ring said the rest are the fast food of furniture .

                

1. 
   rclark581 | Sep 27, 2009 03:11am | #4

   Thank you to all who replied. I guess I just have some quims about me. The table and chairs in question are in fact very solid and, no doubt, will last a great long time.  I do realize that some wood is very expensive and lamination is used to cut costs and to keep prices low... not to mention maintaining efforts to be conservative in this environmentally "green" world. With all that being said, I would still like to be able to go into the marketplace and and not have to inspect, so closely, when someone tells me this is real oak or real cherry. Consumers, I suppose should be educated as to how to tell... since this is such common practice... or maybe we, as woodworkers who take pride in the fact that we can build an heirloom project should also take pride in the fact that we can laminate well enough that the average consumer can't tell. 

   Forgive me if I seem to be taking my own efforts or my own pride a little to seriously. After all... the market is for supplying a well built product that will stand the test of time. That is what my wife bought even if it's not what she thought it was. 

1. 
   roc | Sep 27, 2009 08:27pm | #5

   Educating the customer to convince them to buy one's superior albeit higher priced ( often much higher priced ) item while being surrounded by lower priced " lookalike" wana be facsimiles has always been :Time consumingTricky to pull off without offending the customerRequires relatively honest highly knowledgeable ( more expensive to pay ) sales peopleImportant ( to makers of high end wares )And in some cases nearly impossibleTo illustrate; the other day I was explaining this situation to an acquaintance. He wanted to know why the used $79 full suspension mountain bicycle he was considering could possibly be less desirable to the more expensive bicycle his friend and I were hoping he would buy.$79 is about the price of a good useful set of tires on a real bicycle.Finally I whipped out my cudegras : Put it this way I said. You know when you go to walmart and they have plastic toy machine guns in the toy section. He said yes. This bicycle is the equivalent to that toy plastic machine gun. Then I said if you were about to work in Iraq would you buy one of them to take to Iraq or would you go to the gun shop and pay a little more ?He nodded his head as if he finally got it. But HE STILL DIDN'T GET IT !Not until he test rode the " looks like a bike but isn't really a bike " from wally world taking it down a steep hill and coming back and saying can we do some thing to make it stop better ? I had the brakes on all the way and it felt out of control. He wanted me to make some " adjustment " on the spot for him so I tightened down the cable tension. He took it down the hill again near the bike shop. He came back shaking his head. It wasn't any better. Here you try it !I said I don't have to try it. I know what it is like. That is what I am saying. To " adjust " this to work like you expect requires buying a better quality " real " bicycle.Then the light began to dimly glow. I was worn out at this point.I wanted to say ( maybe some thing that has metal brake levers rather than these plastic things that flex and stretch as you squeeze them what do yah say ? ) I did point out the flexing and stretching. He didn't get that either.Some of the burden, as in buyer beware, lies with the consumer. I happen to very much enjoy the research aspect of my purchases usually going overboard and swimming for all I am worth to toward the bottom. Fun to look at the Rolls Royces and Bentleys even if I am not going to buy one.Some people just want to brag about " the low price they were able to get " " A good Deal ".sighrocGive me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )Edited 9/27/2009 1:28 pm by roc <!-- ROC2013 -->Edited 9/27/2009 1:37 pm by roc <!-- ROC2013 -->

   Edited 9/27/2009 1:39 pm by roc

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Sep 27, 2009 10:32pm | #6

   I saw a sign in a fishing supply store"When you buy quality, you only winch once"

1. 
   Napie | Sep 28, 2009 03:44am | #8

   "Buy the best, only cry once"

2. 
   rclark581 | Sep 27, 2009 10:49pm | #7

   Very well said, Roc... You are absolutely right... No arguments here.  

3. 
   jonnieboy | Sep 28, 2009 07:38am | #9

   Roc, I agree with you wholeheartedly. But there is another side as well. I don't know how often this happens to woodworkers but in the bicycle world people often over-buy their first bike, thinking they are going to ride A LOT, but they just don't.

   In bikes anyway, I'd say get a good middle-of-the-road, until you know.

   Problem is, I don't go by that advice when it comes to woodworking tools. The better the tool, high-priced or not, no problem, I'm there. And so far, I don't regret it a bit. The shop is full of inherited crappy, broken tools and these "replacements" will certainly not end up like that, cast off without a second thought.

   Funny thing too. Had it not been for the 6" Delta jointer down there I may not have even bothered with all the rest. But that machine sort of made the rest of the shop worth saving. And boy, am I happy it did. What an enriching experience it's been. And lots more to learn. I love that!

   Now, if Ben Serotta should ever get into making woodworking tools....

   --Jonnieboy

4. 
   davcefai | Sep 28, 2009 08:20am | #10

   I agree with mnost of what is being said here but it is a little too black/white.There's cheap and nasty and there is high-quality expensive. But there is also "good-enough" - which has to be judged in the context of intended use.The problem is that the buyer has to know enough about the intended purchase to make an intelligent decision. He also needs to know the state of his budget. :-)It's a difficult decision involving money, durability, frequency of use, features and quality of the output of the product.Take handplanes. They range from 2 for less than $10 to Mr Holtey's planes. The only time I'd buy the lowest quality would be to do a quick rough job underwater. (If that were possible). On the other hand I could never buy a Holtey. The Bank Manager would probably send the boys around.Furniture? It's amazing how many people seem to believe that you can screw into particle board.Electronics? Compare two video cards with apparently identical specs. Then you find out that one is fan-cooled, the other not.The durability of the non-fan cooled one is the guarantee period plus a few days.Maybe there should be quality lessons at school.

1. 
   jonnieboy | Sep 28, 2009 08:59am | #11

   Davecefai,

   Point well taken. I was thinking after I posted that I'm using a Zona saw for dovetailing and it's perfect for me. I wouldn't know what to look for in a fancy-dancey dovetail saw, and my skill level isn't there yet.

   It also got me thinking, some things you buy to grow into, other things you buy to grow out of.  But that's as far as I got with that. That happens quite a bit with my thinking.

   --jonnieboy