Having the 12” wide cutter head would be nice but it seems I always want a longer bed. If I could find a 10” jointer with an 80” bed I think I would be pretty happy but I have not been able to find such a beast. It’s like the heads are made 6”,8” 12” and up. Nobody makes 10” heads?
http://www.lagunatools.com/jointers/jointer-platinum12 is currently my machine of interest. I know grizzly makes jointers but the grizzly 14” band saw I owned was a piece of crap. Not saying they don’t make good stuff but I’m hesitant to go there again. So I’m really not interested in grizzly stuff.
I’m not really interested in the combo machines. They tend to have short beds and I already have a really nice surface planner 16” 3hp with a shelix head. Plus they tend to be higher in price than just a jointer of the same size.
<!—-><!—-> <!—->
Replies
Look for an older vintage machine from the 1930's-1950's. Last year I sold my 30" Oliver so I now use a 16" Sidney built in the 1940's. Older jointers are a joy to own.
Untill you try to put a shelix head in it.
<!----><!----> <!---->
I switched over to all insert tooling on my planer and jointer about 3 years ago. Never have looked back. I would never own a straight blade machine again. Honing and setting blades is a complete waste of time. I never enjoyed it.
<!----> <!---->
I enjoy sharping chissels, planes, and scrapers quite a bit.
<!----> <!---->
I don’t have 3 phase power. I could never run a 30” machine. I would love to have one but it’s just way out of the question.
<!----> <!---->
I think it comes down the fact that I really don’t like tinkering with machies. I know some people really get into it. I just have never liked it. I see the machines as a means to an end. Not and end in themselves.
<!----> <!---->
I did see Oliver makes a new 10” jointer but it’s the same price as the 12” laguna. I know older Olivers are lengendary among “old iron” machine heads. I’m sure the new ones are made oversea’s. Northfield also makes some cool machines but they are way out of reach. 10K for 8” straight blade machine?
<!----> <!---->
I have never had good luck looking for used machines. I can find ones that are beat to crap; bearings going out; needs new motor…
The 30" Oliver jointer is 5 hp single phase belt drive. I won't get into a debate about old vs new machines or cutter head types. To each their own.
Was not trying to drag you into a debate. Just trying to be up front and honest about what I’m after. These forms are full a people who just are looking for a fight. Woodworkers are a nit picky uptight bunch.
<!----><!----> <!---->
I have trolled the auctions and used machery sites for years. It’s tempting;
I have had a 10" Griz that fits the bill with 84" beds (3 years). I have the SC, which must not be available anymore. I think I paid $2,200.
I think Griz is clearencing them now. http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/10-4-Blade-Cutterhead-Jointer/G0455 and they have free-shipping! It is built like a tank and I have not had any problems with it.
I think a 5hp, 30" jointer with is missing about 10hp:) I am amazed that motor would even turn over the head let alone cut wood.
Brad
Here it is.
I would never have guessed that is only 5hp. I have 5hp on my 12" and I have made it work very hard jointing 12" wide Jatoba lately. I like those old machines. When I have a proper sized shop I want to add a few of them. They used to build them like tanks.
Brad
I LOVE working with Jatoba. A wonderful wood to work with.. At least the stuff I get for my local supplier.. Mostly... I get a few reaction sticks on occasion..
Most of my 'real' project have Jatoba, Ash and sometimes Purpleheart in them...
Jatoba is like a new bride... You fall in love very easy working with it!
hmm, I'm not sure about that one. This is my fourth batch of flooring (yes, I am totally nuts) and it lost its appeal after the first few 100bdft. By the time I had all 600bdft rough sized I was sweating bullets. My last order showed up and my first thought was, "when did i turn into an industrial woodworker?" All of the boards were around 24ft long and about 15% were 14" wide. Some of them weighed around 200lb. It took me a long time to convince myself to cut them down. In the end, I labelled each end so I can finger joint them back together if I am still up for it. I know it will make a nice floor in the end.
This last group sure was nicer to plane with the new shellix.
Brad
The thing to check is what kind of Warrenty does company gives on their machines. I have a Grizzly 8" jointer, drill press and table saw for 20 yrs. still going strong. Good luck!
Well, I know you said you do not want to look at grizz because of a 14" BS, but you should take another look. I got the 12" griz in 12/07 and its been a dream. I went from a delta 6" to the 4HSS knive version and could not be happier with it. Its moved across the country once and the movers loved it, but It's sweet to take an 8' board (11+ wide is the widest I've had to run but it will do the full 12") and do a whole side at once. Tables are long dead on flat and produces a great surface. Only problem is be sure you have good dust pick up that sucker throws the chips. You can't beat the price and I think they have free delivery. You will need an engine hoist to move it. Anyway just putting it there for you to look at I've had mine for a good while now and would not change a thing!
Here's my original thread and review.
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=38959.1
I was married by a judge - I should have asked for a jury.
George Burns
An old friend of mine from way back stopped by today. He has lots of old iron, and mentioned that he had a 20 or 22" jointer that he was willing to part with. Fifteen or twenty years ago I would have been all over that, but now I am not to hot on adding more equipment. Drop me an email if you want contact info.
I will just add, that I think he said that it has a pretty large foot-print.
Oliver makes a 10" jointer
http://www.olivermachinery.net/machines.asp?machine=4240
Oliver 4240 10" 3hp 1ph w/ Byrd Shelix Cutter Head US $2,920.00
http://cgi.ebay.com/Oliver-4240-10-3hp-1ph-w-Byrd-Shelix-Cutter-Head_W0QQitemZ390068408904QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad1e39248&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
12” laguna $2,995.00 3hp 1ph Shear-Tec spiral cutterhead
similar specs but I'm not 100% sure about the laguna head? as long as it takes the shelix style cutting inserts I'm good with it.
so the question is why not get the 12" laguna for about the same money?
As much of a Grizzly fan as I am (or especially was when $$ was a huge issue), I would never hold their 14" band saw, especially the older ones, as an example of their best product. I don't think there's any doubt that their jointers, specifically the bigger ones, are in a different class than an intro-level 1019 or 1019Z band saw, or even the newer and better G0555. Just my take on it...
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 7/25/2009 12:08 am by forestgirl
There is a 12" Northfield Jointer for sale in the classifieds right now. Maybe you should check it out. It looks like a pretty nice machine!
I don't have 3 phase power.<!----><!----><!---->
why would I pay that much for a 12" straight blade jointer? I can buy a new machine with single phase and a shelix style head with carbide inserts for $3K<!----><!---->
your paying a premium ($2K) for old time nostalgia. Plus another $1000-$1500 for a new head and new motor; plus the pain and runaround to get it all running again.<!----><!---->
I love old tools and they are cool. Like I said before tempting… but the long term economics don’t add up for me. <!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
One thing to consider on the Laguna vs. Oliver choice. There have been a great deal of posts on this and other forums lamenting some really poor customer service from Laguna - too many to be just a fluke, in my opinion. It's possible they've straightened the issues out, but you might want to ask for a few very recent Laguna purchasers to chime in (I don't have one - just noticed lots of negative comments on the company).
BTW - Delta also makes a 12" single phase jointer (the DJ-30), but I've not priced them - I prefer a hand plane for flattening the face of a board if it won't fit through my planer.
I also prefer to hand planes but I don't always have the steam to get it all done by hand.<!----><!----><!---->
I'm actually surprised how effective hand planes can be. Takes a bit of practice but they produce excellent results when sharp.<!----><!---->
Your correct about Laguna; I don’t own anything Laguna and the customer service aspect has always scared me a bit. The Oliver is actually my leading choice.<!----><!---->
That’s my workshop helper. He likes to suck up the curls as they come off the plane at the end.<!----><!---->
There was a post recently that might show Laguna's changing their tune about customer service. Don't know if I can find it, as I don't remember what kind of machine the Knots member was posting about, but I clearly remember being .... surprised at the post-sale support he was reporting. Pleasantly surprised, to be sure.
Will see if I can track it down....forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie, Perhaps you are referring to my post. I recently purchased a 16" Laguna band saw - my second Laguna band saw. The sales support was great - no hassle, no pressure no criticism of competitors. I never had a moments trouble with the first saw and thus can't comment on service in the past. On this saw, a knob was missing on one handle. I let them know and in a few days the knob and handle arrived. I am very satisfied with my Laguna experience.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Hi, Frosty? Was it you? Yes, a search and I found the post. I have always sensed, in reported Laguna interactions, a very strong sales-training effort -- scattered interactions, be they at a show or from a phone call to the company -- had disturbingly consistent results of putting down the competition, pressureing people to buy and hinting they were dumb if they went somewhere else, etc., etc., and not-so-supportive when after-sale help was sought.
I hope the interaction you had with "Kevin" at Laguna and the good service they provided after you bought the saw (for a very simple problem) is an indication they're training their employees verrrrrry differently now!
Many, many companies are putting extra effort into taking care of their customers these days, even going so far as to call a customer after a purchase to ask if everythings ok, is there anything they need? The law of supply and demand at work again -- far fewer customers in the supply, lots of companies seeking to keep their business.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yep t was me. I sense a completely new attitude at Laguna. The products are made in Bulgaria and perhaps the owners (Bulgarian?) are learning 'better behavior' - not that Americans should be role models.Are you hit by the heat wave in the NW I read about?Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
"Are you hit by the heat wave in the NW I read about?" Yep, it's wicked. Records dropping left and right, supposed to get to 106 in Vancouver, WA today (south of us), it's been 90-ish at MLB's Safeco field, and it was 120 degrees in the bullpen about an hour ago, guys getting ready for the game that started at 1 p.m.
No riding horses, not much tractor driving, shop's too hot, so am vegging with the computer.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Those temps are rugged anywhere - but in your normally cool, damp climate they must be a real shock.Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Hi, Sleepy
I saw your response to another's recommendation of checking out the jointer I have for sale. Just so there are no misconceptions, I thought I'd clear a few things up.First of all, the Northfield is 3 phase, but it's run through a rotary phase converter, and plugs right into a single phase, 30 amp circuit...piece of cake.....and no 3 phase power needed. I don't have 3 phase in my shop, either.Secondly, I have had lots of experience with the lesser jointers that are imported like Laguna, Griggio, Powermatic, SCMI, etc.......and I just want it understood that there is absolutely no comparison in quality between the import machines, even with the spiral cutterhead, than with a jointer like the Northfield. There's a reason why the Northfield costs $16K brand new, and it is performance. I upgraded from a 16" SCMI to my Northfield, and the Northfield is twice the performer. Just thought I'd clear that up for the discussion. Good luck finding your next jointer.Jeff
I understand about the 3 phase converter. add $600. it's actually pretty easy to make one. But it's just one more thing to break or go wrong. I have a welding friend who made one. it works. Can you run it continuously under load for hours without it needing to be cycled?<!----><!----><!---->
My high school shop was pretty much outfitted with all older Northfield stuff. I live in MN. It was massive stuff. But I can't say it was superior in quality; just heavy duty stuff. I do know the jointer we had was worn so badly the tables were concave along the fence. So just because it says Northfield on it does not mean it’s not past its prime.<!----><!---->
I said I would never ever own a straight blade cutter head again. I will not. Straight hss blades are inferior IMO. They require lots of maintenance if you work with figured or vertical grain boards. I can joint anything on my shelix head with virtually no tear out. When I had a straight blade cutter head I was constantly touching up the blades to avoid tear out. I used to wet the wood sometimes; angle it this way and that and hope and pray I would get good results. With the shelix head I can get consistent results every time. When the cutters get a little worn I just rotate them. I can get 6 months to a year per side of the cutter heads. After 3-4 years I need to replace the entire knife. Granted they are expensive but they last for 3-4 years. You can’t escape the economics of time/money here. <!----><!---->
Imagine not touching your knifes for 6 months? You can’t because a straight blade machine would require you to re-hone them at least monthly if you’re jointing a lot.<!----><!---->
You have a really nice looking machine and I’m sure it works great for you; why would you sell it?<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
<!----> <!---->
It is curious and depressing that anyone would reject out of hand one of the finest machines ever made as 'old tech'.
I spend quite a bit of time explaining to customers my take on real quality. Most people simply haven't been exposed to real quality and therefore are not able to see value in it or even get so close as to develop an appreciation of it. They don't know what the don't know, so to speak.
If you haven't spent a few hours with a Northfield joiner, you don't know what a joiner really does. The weight and balance of the machine is better than anything else in the industry (a Martin is in the same class), and greatly contributes to the quality of the cut. These machines are a joy to work with and are made to be used - hard - 8 hours or more a day. They are far easier to work with and maintain than other machines. These don't need 'new tech' because none of the other machines has come close to the quality of performance the Northfield can offer - they don't even try. The lighter manufacturers/marketers come up with new gimmicks and improved jimcrack to sell the next generation of 'new, improved.'
The fence on the Northfields will also skew at an angle to the cutter - effectively reducing the cutting angle and giving a clean shear cut. Again, if you haven't experienced it, you simply cannot know what I'm talking about.$3,000 for a 12" joiner? It will be a great 'deal'. You will feel good and have the newest tech on the block. But you will never know what you are missing, by design. Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com
"The fence on the Northfields will also skew at an angle to the cutter - effectively reducing the cutting angle and giving a clean shear cut." Now there's a feature I'd like to have!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
"The fence on the Northfields will also skew at an angle to the cutter - effectively reducing the cutting angle and giving a clean shear cut." Now there's a feature I'd like to have!"
Actually you can have this feature, but it requires some ingenuity and the nerve to go against the current "teachings" of the Tool Messiahs which are against this attitude.
In fact , I am surprised that nobody has come up with an aftermarket bolt on version.Philip Marcou
It'd probably be a waste of time on a 6" jointer like mine, unless I was jointing very narrow material. ;-) I can see the usefullness on a "real" jointer, though -- 12"+forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Yes, you are right. I think one could rig it on an 8 inch as a minimum, though. Depends on how much slew and the width of "boards" ...Philip Marcou
That is all most certainly true. And there are other makes and models such as Pinheiro, SCM Invincible, Wadkin and others which are of industrial quality and performance.
The problem is also that most folk think that $3000 is a fortune to spend on a machine especially for hobby use, and to compound the problem they then also expect unrealistic performance.
The manufacturers have got to find ways of reducing their costs when selling such machinery for those prices, hence the absence of things such as skewable fences, robust castings, large diameter cutter blocks, flywheels, thin flat belts for high speeds, decent motors, to mention a few .
You always gets what yous pays for.....
Then again, lucky is the hobbyist who has the space needed to accommodate a hefty 12 incher jointer/surfacer, let alone a 20 incher or bigger.
Philip Marcou
I’m not saying Northfield jointers are crap. The one I used in high school shop class(long ago) was a nice machine. But I’m pretty sure I was not as concerned with getting things to within a thousandth of inch. I was making cutting boards.
I think you need to make a distinction between professional trade’s people and hobby. I need to be able to run a machine on single phase power. I need to be able to move the machine from time to time without a hoist or fork lift. I sharpen all my tools by hand.
As a hobbyist spending 3K on a jointer is a big deal. It’s a lot of money for me. I’m pretty sure it’s a lot of money for most people.
I’m not going to belabor the point on cutter heads. The economics of it add up for me. I’m happy with the new tech. This new tech has actually been around for a long time.
I have been exposed to real quality. The question of whether it’s economically feasible is an entirely different question. I think I will leave the Northfield jointer in a place of exalted exclusion. When I die maybe there will be a Northfield jointer in my heavenly workshop. Oh and somebody else will maintain it.
<!----><!----> <!---->
"why would I pay that much for a 12" straight blade jointer? I can buy a new machine with single phase and a shelix style head with carbide inserts for $3K"It is not only the blades that give a good cut but the stability of the machine and near zero vibration of a well built machine direct drive machine. One thing that makes a huge difference is to joint the knives when the machine is running. There are many things which go into producing a high quality cut. When I run a board across my Oliver it tends to be so flat and smooth that there is a kind of suction when I try to pick up the board off the outfeed table. I have a 12" Oliver direct drive machine that I paid $2100 delivered in 2002. The machine was owned by a pattern shop and not used much. My machine will cut 3/4" in one pass and produce glass smooth cuts. The diameter of the cutterhead is 5". I own four jointers and not one of them produces the quality of cut that my Oliver does. My jointers are: a Rockwell 6", a General 6", a General 8", and an Oliver 12". Within about two years all of my jointers have had to have their bearings replaced but not the Oliver.The tables on each of them have had to be adjusted but not the Oliver. I worked in a shop that was 100 years old during the time I was working there. They had an Oliver 12" jointer that had been going since about 1912. That machine was used everyday for millwork operations. That machine has never had its bearings replaced. On my Oliver I can pull pack both tables about 6" each way to get into the cutterhead. Each of the tables have a four point adjustment. I have never used a machine with a shelix head but I worked in a very large lumber business and we saw hardwood planed with a machine that produced a cut that tended to produce little marks on the board that were hard to sand out. Some machines did not seem to produce that though. We never seemed to have had a problem with that from the Oliver straitoplane.
I believe huge old iron machines can produce fantastic results. I would love to have one.<!----><!----><!---->
"I have never used a machine with a shelix head"<!----><!---->
Do you mean to tell me you can’t see mill marks coming off your jointer? I have yet to see a straight blade head that produces glass like finish without mill marks. That you would apply finish upon? The mill marks are there. When I get casement trim from a millwork shop there are mill marks. Granted the surface is glass smooth but there are mill marks. Your just so used to seeing them you’re not noticing them anymore.<!----><!---->
I finish most of all my visible surfaces with hand planes, scrapers, and random orbital when all else fails.<!----><!---->
I don’t see my jointer or any other jointer capable of producing a surface ready for finishing. It’s a tool for squaring lumber. If the jointer tears out it’s just making the finial finishing steps harder IMO. Unless you’re straight blades are kept extremely sharp all the time you’re going to get tear out. It’s a fact and you can’t get around it. I don’t like honing and re-setting my blades on a weekly basis. It’s time consuming tedious and difficult. <!----><!---->
I’m glad you get great results with a straight blade cutter head. I have never been able to do it. But I can get very good results with a shelix style head.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
"Do you mean to tell me you can’t see mill marks coming off your jointer?" They are very fine and unlike what you describe seeing on molding. It is not as smooth as what a hand plane produces. It is smooth enough that it is some work to get it off the table without feeling a kind of suction. If I sand or hand plane the surface it takes almost no work."When I get casement trim from a millwork shop there are mill marks." I have seen a lot of poor work like you are saying. That is more prevalent in recent years. Good machines today can produce incredible finishes but too often the machine is not setup very well and the operator does not care. When I worked for a company where we produced moldings I could always tell which was ours by the finish. One of our customers told us that he applied gold leaf over the wood without any preparation to the wood. We also ran our machines at 100 Hz. The mill man told me that he ground the knives so they slightly burnished the surface. "I don’t see my jointer or any other jointer capable of producing a surface ready for finishing. It’s a tool for squaring lumber. If the jointer tears out it’s just making the finial finishing steps harder IMO. Unless you’re straight blades are kept extremely sharp all the time you’re going to get tear out. It’s a fact and you can’t get around it. I don’t like honing and re-setting my blades on a weekly basis. It’s time consuming tedious and difficult." It is not always just about sharpness but also about having the blades at exactly the same height. after I set the knives I joint them. I rejoint my blades about three to four times before sharpening them. I learned on old machines that did not have adjustments on the cutterhead and find those with adjustments to be a pain. I use a setting block to set the knives and it takes me a very short amount of time. I have never timed myself but I would guess that I can do it in less then 20 minutes. Jointing only takes a few minutes if the knives are set right.
"I’m glad you get great results with a straight blade cutter head. I have never been able to do it." The blades must be exactly the same height and that can only be done by jointing the knives while the machine is running. To joint the knives I set them so they just tick the stone when a piece of paper is underneath the stone and turn the cutterhead by hand until I am satisfied it is safe to turn the machine on and joint the knives with the machine running. One of the things that helps is that the cutterhead is 5 inches in diameter. so there is less down pressure. At the same time there is much less backward pressure toward me than any other machine I own. I have never been able to get the kind of quality of cut out of any belt driven machine I own as a direct drive machine. On my direct drive machine the motor and cutterhead act like one heavy flywheel. The closest time I have come is when I used a J belt and a multi-groove pulley.
all of the effort you go to setting and jointing is something I don't have to do. <!----><!----><!---->
Every 6 months or whenever the surface starts to look bad I rotate my inserts. Takes about 10 mins.<!----><!---->
"If I sand or hand plane the surface it takes almost no work."<!----><!---->
Yes my setup is much like this; the absence of tear out is what really makes the difference for me. One very light pass with a sharp smoother plane usually removes any visible mill marks. <!----><!---->
My only point is really that straight blade cutter heads are a lot of work to setup and maintain. The shelix head ensures there is not much to screw up, making it easy for an idiot like me to get it perfect.<!----><!---->
I'm a skeptic at best; but after a couple of years I'm very pleased with insert type cutter heads. In the end nothing is perfect all the time. But the shelix head definitely comes close.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
I am glad that you enjoy your cutterhead and consider it a wise investment. I cannot imagine what one would cost that is 12" long and 5 inches in diameter that would fit my direct drive machine. What I find interesting is that in an Oliver helical and straight knife cutterhead the inserts and knives are jointed. It appears that the shellix is not. So I would question the ability of any cutter which is not jointed to produce the same quality of finish a jointed cutter produces. It appears that the shellix head only has one tooth each revolution to cut the edge of rabbet. Have you used it to rabbet the ends or edges of boards? Over the years I have seen million of board feet of lumber and have seen some planed with insert tooling and noticed compression in the wood that was difficult to remove. Today some companies abrasive plane the wood. It tends to cover the defects and make the lumber look better without any tearout.
They have a short price list available; they can make you a head easily. I sent them a drawing and they produced one for me. 16" head cost was about 1K with bearings pre-installed and a fresh set of inserts.<!----><!----><!---->
http://www.byrdtool.com/jointers.html<!----><!---->
you are correct about the rabbet. it's a no go on my machine now. if you need that aspect of your jointer then these heads are not for you.<!----><!---->
I rarely used my jointer to rebate stuff. So it's not a big deal for me.<!----><!---->
the precise milling of the head makes the inserts sit perfectly. I did on one occasion have an insert that was miss aligned and it caused a terrible mess. It was my fault I did not blow off the head with air before I turned the inserts. Not sure what I was thinking. <!----><!---->
I’m 100% sure you can get a better surface with a jointed blade alignment. The question of how much better is really necessary I would ponder? If I can take off any mill marks with a transparent curl of my smoother is that good enough? I mean when you get so close to perfection that getting perfection twice as good; does it really get you anyplace at all? <!----><!---->
I would love to have a big old iron.<!----><!---->
http://www.machineking.com/northfield__12-hd__12_inch_jointer_1.html<!----><!---->
Maybe sooner or later I will find one cheap enough to re-do with a new cutter head and single phase.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
<!----> <!---->
Have you looked for a jointer with the Tersa head? Seems to me Mini Max uses them. I have them on my 10 1/4" jointer. I can swap each blade out in seconds, they seat automatically without any need for adjustment, and you can use both sides of the knives.
are they carbide? do you have to hone them or do they come perfect?
how much does each blade cost?
I have a MM16. nice machine I like it.
You can find prices for Tersa knives here; http://www.simantechinc.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=2They are not the vendor I buy my Tersa knives from, but looking at the price they charge, I think I am going to switch vendors..I have never used Carbide Tersa knives, I usually use the M42 type knives. I know that for a 410mm size (16 1/8 inches) they run about $38 per knife, remember Tersa knives have two cutting edges, so that is about $19 per/edge. Typically a Tersa head uses 3 or 4 knives...Edited 7/31/2009 11:40 am ET by BOBABEUIEdited 7/31/2009 11:40 am ET by BOBABEUI
Edited 7/31/2009 11:46 am ET by BOBABEUI
I believe you can obtain both carbide and HSS. No honing. just slide them in. When dull flip it. Then toss after second side is dull. My machine has a three-blade head, and it leaves a smooth, shiny finish.
"The question of how much better is really necessary I would ponder? If I can take off any mill marks with a transparent curl of my smoother is that good enough? I mean when you get so close to perfection that getting perfection twice as good; does it really get you anyplace at all?" It is easily noticeable especially in moldings. A customer at a place where I worked told us he put gold leaf directly over the moldings we produced without any preparation. That is the reason he bought from us and not someone else. We made the sale and someone else did not. The differences at times may not be much of an issue but it is if someone has to spend a long time sanding moldings instead of installing the stock. The last crown job I did had about 1200 lf of 6" crown molding. I cannot imagine sanding all that molding especially in areas of a lot of detail. In some cases a jointed surface cannot be sanded because it it is part of a joint.There is more to jointed knives than just the issue of surface finish. Jointed knives not only produce a better surface finish but there is less vibration on the stock, on the operator, and machine because each knife is exactly the same height. Each knife cuts exactly the same.
Give Felder a try. They have both their 500 series and their Hammer line with 12" jointers or 12" jointer/planer combos. They also sell rock solid cast iron or extruded aluminum table extensions that allow for a very long bed.
I recently bought their AD-741 Jointer/Planer with 16" capacity and a 15" cast iron extension for the planer outfeed.
Mini-Max also sells 12" models and I bellieve they or SCMI (parent company) sell table extensions. If not, you could always buy the Aigner ones and attach them. This is the exact same ones that Felder uses.
Regards,
John
If you don't mind me asking. what did you pay for AD-741? $10,300.64 is the base price. <!----><!----><!---->
My experience with Felder has been they are way out of my measly price range.<!----><!---->
Also how much do replacement blades for the tersa head cost?<!----><!---->
I guess If you could divide the cost of the machine by 3 it might be in my price range. They only way I’m ever going to own a Felder machine is if I will the lotto; or I die and there is one stocked in my celestial workshop.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
<!----> <!---->
I added in the Power Drive option, mobility kit and Euro comfort guard. They gave me over $2K in discounts off list on the 741, but I also bought a KF-700S Pro at the same time, so there were discounts for multiple machines. I got the 4 blade Felder cutterhead versus Tersa. Basically, the same thing, but some say Felder's performs better. I think the replacement blades are about $150 or so. They are razor sharp and like the Tersa, you don't "set" them. You simply slide them in place, tighten the bolts down then turn the machine on. Centrifugal force sets them perfectly as the blade spins. Pretty slick and changover of four blades takes about 4 minutes. They are also two sided. Any board under 12" wide allows you to skew it nicely through the planer for a shearing cut if necessary. Another benefit of 16".
While at AWFS, I looked at the 500 Series and Hammer's and they are also very good machines and cost a lot less. You might also check out the Summer sale Min-Max is having to see if anything interests you. They have good sale prices right now and I own an MM-20 bandsaw and love it. I've also used an FS-41 Elite, 16" jointer/planer and it performed very very well.
Grizzly was advertising a 16" jointer/planer in their clearance flyer they were handing out at AWFS. I think it was $7K or so. Might be worth a call to them to see if any are left. Salesman didn't even know they sold one that large, but there it was in the flyer.
Another option is used. There's a very lightly used AD-741 for sale over at Sawmill Creek in the classifieds. $8K and it looks to have either power drive or Digidrive from the picture. Seller is in NorCal I think.
Also, call both Mini-Max and Felder as they often know of used ones that either they have or are being sold by owners. You might also check out the Mini Max and Felders owners groups on Yahoo. Very active boards and stuff comes up for sale quite a lot.
Lot's of good deals to be had out there right now!!!
Regards,
John
Edited 7/31/2009 11:27 am ET by jharden
Edited 7/31/2009 11:28 am ET by jharden
I'm pretty much limited to 3k for the entire deal. So like I said... maybe if I win the lotto?<!----><!----><!---->
it's actually tough to find something in this price range that steps up the performance curve and is not beat to hell; or it has the word grizzly on it.<!----><!---->
<!----> <!---->
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled