Geez I had no idea my question would generate such a lively discussion.No I’m not an electrician but with the help and advice from some friends who are and by paying careful attention to my basic wiring book I wired my whole house as I built it.It’s not exactly rocket science you know.Had the work inspected before powering up and to this day remain fire free.My book however had no info about 220.I posed the question because it was a Sunday and no one was at the electical shop I usually consult for such matters and I’ve not done any 220 circuits before.Since no one actually answered the question I called my electrical adviser and now have the info I need.Oh and by the by a 20amp double pole breaker and 12/2 w/ground wire are sufficient for this particular application.Anyway thanks for the info.I’m going to bow out now and let you all dicker among yourselves.Thanks again.
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
Wow, Drater, that thread did get....interesting...didn't it? I watched but didn't get very involved. Electric threads often develop into food fights. Once in a great, great while, an actual electrician will pitch in and everybody else shuts up.. ROFL!!
Glad to hear everything's on track. Envious of your new planer.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/25/2008 11:31 pm by forestgirl
<<Electric threads often develop into food fights.>>LOL. Ain't that the truth.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
The problem with electrical threads is that so many people with so little knowledge think they are journeymen electricians.
I'm a professional engineer with many years of experience building industrial and residential power systems. Before that I was a journeyman electrician.
I won't answer anymore electrical threads on this forum. I've been flamed, derided for having an education and challenged by jake leg electricians who wouldn't know the National Electric Code if it fell off the shelf and knocked them cold.
If you take electrical advice from this forum you are nuts. There are a few guys who know of what they speak. The others are just dangerous fools.
Since my finger is only 3/4" wide I know I can use my tablesaw to cut nine 1/8" thick pieces from 2" wide stock without cutting off my fingers.
Seems pretty stupid, doesn't it? Well the "I can change my own oil" electricians on this forum are telling you things that are equally dangerous and stupid.
More people are injured and killed by 110 V than any other voltage. Electrical fires are the major cause of damage to structures. I value my and my family's personal safety over a few dollars. That's why I drive a Ford, not a vehicle I cobbled together in my garage.
Maybe the reason you seem to get very little respect is because you have destroyed your credibility by flaming tools you have never owned or used and your propensity for making BS statements like "Electrical fires are the major cause of damage to structures". Even a rudimentary bit of research would have told you that cooking fires are the leading cause.
Perhaps you could cite your source for the claim that "More people are injured and killed by 110 V than any other voltage".
I won't hold my breath since when asked for citations in the past you have not responded.
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
mr. green,
Still pi$$ed off because Delta makes junk? Get some help.
I don't care if you like or believe what I say. Your ignorant opinion means nothing to me, forum troll. Have to go now, had a guy like you do my wiring and the kitchen is on fire...
Must be terrible for you, realizing that your unfounded prejudices, urban legends, myths and old wives tales are not held in high regard by thinking people.
I must say that you do reinforce my belief that the licensing and union system is to promote high wages, not safety or excellence or practical knowledge in ones craft. I would'nt let you replace a watch battery much less wire anything.
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
OK I just can not resist jumping in here. First off I would expect that more people are injured by 110 then any other voltage. I would assume that 220 is the next most likely number. As in the US (where we are talking about) 110 is by far the most common voltage with 220 following it up as this is what we use in our houses. This would in fact stand to reason. As for how dangerous 110 is? Well it is dangerous but then so is a car, a gun, gasoline, any oil based anything, bows and arrows, sex, or trying to build a building with out knowing what you are doing, and of course all of those tool in the wood shop too.
Would I suggest doing your own wiring? No. Why? because if you have to ask someone if you should then the answer is you should not. Like the guy that says I get scared using my table saw should I still use it. Well NO. If it scares you don't do it. (Nervous is another thing but not scared).
That being said just because you get hit will 110 does NOT mean you will be dead or even injured. I got hit with 110 (house current) while working in a basement doing a remodel, when the electrician said the circuit was dead (yeah right it was) I ended up on the other side of the room and my shovel was on the far corner. Not fun but I did live to tell about it. Should you be worried? Yes, should you make sure you know what the heck you are doing , heck yes, should you hire someone if you do not know what you are doing or if you are scared? Well yeah. But a lot of people make it out to be a lot harder and more dangerous then it is. Now if you are talking multi phase or other stuff, that is another matter. But most house wiring jobs are pretty simple.
But then again we have moved to a point in this country that we have to scare the daylights out of everyone with everything.
In short (yeah I know to late) if you are not comfortable doing your own wiring then buy all means please hire someone. But it is not the deadly arcane art form that some would have you believe. Just be careful (as with anything else you are doing the first time)
Doug M.
"....I would expect that more people are injured by 110 volts than any other voltage."
Yes, and even in a 220 volt circuit, one is probably more likely to get across a 110 volt component than the 220 component.
I would'nt let you replace a watch battery much less wire anything.
Now, Don, let the man change your watch battery. After all, he probably designed it being an EE and all. Just check the face of your watch, if it says "Casio", then the odds are good.
Hee Hee, I love a good pi$$ing match! Aint this fun?!
No, I'm afraid the instructions would be beyond his comprehension and to cover up his incompetence he would swear that most wrist injuries are caused by faulty watch wiring. No doubt a conspiracy by those jake leg electricians he seems so fond of.
Have a good Thanksgiving!!
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
I found this the other day, it's a cheap and dirty little wire size calculator. Note it has Alum and copper calculation.
http://www.paigewire.com/pumpWireCalc.htm
Jack
I plan on directing the water from my garden hose into one of my 230 outlets. I have single phase power. I'd like to be knocked across the room at least 15 to 20 feet. What gauge wire do I need to use from a 100 amp box to the outlet 16 feet away? Can I get away with 2 wires and a ground, or do I need to spring for 3 wires plus ground (I'd like to save money where I can). Will a 30 amp breaker do the job? Will single phase handle this or do I need to get 3 phase?I've heard a shock strong enough to achieve lift-off could result in cardiac arrest. Can someone suggest a quick hook-up that would work as an emergency defibrillator? Keep it simple, I don't want to spend more that the minimum required.Could any of this harm the garden hose?Rich
It may be possible to accomplish this without spending any money at all. If you have overhead wiring on your street and your garden hose will reach that far a stream of water directed at the uppermost wire on the pole should supply you with 13kv. You can maximize the distance you are thrown (not to mention the severity of the burns) by removing your shoes and standing in a puddle of water.
You should contact northouguy and have him demonstrate for you since I am sure he would think it foolhardy for someone other than an elctrician to attempt this.
Be sure to post pictures!
Happy Thanksgiving and thanks for the chuckle!
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Happy Thanksgiving Day everyone.The whole house is beginning to smell wonderfully of turkey cooking and all kinds of pies and all the other variety of things bubbling away and steaming. If I can stop filling my face with preliminary snacks, I might have some room for the main courses in a few hours.Rich
spring for the 3 conductor plus ground, definately. It's safer. The neutral and ground are usually separated beyond the main panel for a reason. Brian
Yes,I'm going to do that. The machines come with 3' of flexible cord which apparently is intended to either be wired into a box close by or to have a 230 volt plug of some sort. It's 3 conductor, no ground, and interestingly, about 14 gauge.I guess the voltage drop/heating in 3' of 14 gauge stranded wire is negligible. And the chassis are completely insulated from the power and electronics (motor brakes and other controls). But I'll replace those short cords with longer, heavier 3 conductor plus ground stranded cord, and use the ground lead to ground the machines anyway.Rich
Rich I used a Felder quick disconnect plug and receptacle at the end of the pigtail. I then used 10 gauge wire and a 30 amp Hubbell twist-lock at the wall. The Felder quick disconnect plugs and receptacles are very high quality and they were about $8 each a couple of years ago.
Rich the pigtail on the saw is 3 conductors, 2 hots and a ground. The ground conductor has green and yellow stripes if I remember correctly.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
"Life is not a success only journey." Dr. Phil
Edited 11/30/2008 9:23 am ET by JerryPacMan
Jerry,Right you are. I mis-read the sheet that came wrapped around the end of the pigtails. It refers to the green-yellow lead as "ground." I had thought it was a 120 v "common" conductor.Rich
mr. green
You are a pitiful small minded little man, aren't you?<!----><!----><!---->
Perhaps you should get some psychiatric help. A good doctor might be able to assist you in dealing with your feelings if jealously and inadequacy regarding those who are better educated and more successful than you. Good luck to you. I hope you get the help you need.<!----><!---->
By the way, I’ll be ignoring anything you post from now on.<!----><!---->
Nearly 70 years ago my Dad wired houses in Southern Indiana with the Civilian Conservation Corps. His crew actually set the poles and ran the wire from farmhouse to farmhouse. No outlets--only a single ceiling fixture (a hanging bulb) in each room.
Dad always taught me to be respectful of electricity and to be wary of braggarts. That's some pretty good advice that doesn't seem to grow old.
Seems like that would have been well over seventy years ago. Out in Wyoming, where I grew up, our neighbors got electric seventy years ago almost to the month. Not all of the houses were wired with 220 volts, but everyone had an outlet and light in each major room. I remember my dad discussing the waste of putting more that one outlet in a room.
When we got electric power some two and a half years later, our minimum was $3.50 per month. It took a while before we used up that minimum. No one imagined the use that we would later get from electric power.
Edited 11/27/2008 10:05 pm ET by Tinkerer3
The "3 C" camp that my Dad was with used the local teams of horses or mules to dig drainage ditches along the roads as they went. The thinking was that the drainage ditches were at least as important if not more so than the electric lighting.
As you recall, the 3 C's was one of the several programs developed during the Great Depression to get unemployed men to work. They were formed in 1933 and disbanded in 1942 or 1943. The pay was $30 per month, but $15 was always sent home and the men were only allowed $15 for their personal use.
Different areas of the country received electricity at different times up until WWII sent all available men overseas.
That is getting to be a long time ago. I was born in 1933 so remember quite a bit of that. I don't recall the CCC but do remember people talking about them some years later. I remember my dad saying that one year our family expenses were less than $100.00. My water bill is more than that. My dad was a farmer so we had milk and eggs and a steak here and there.
About two thirds of our area was electrified by the time the war shut off the labor supply and, like you said, it wasn't until after the war had ended that the work resume.
Edited 11/28/2008 8:51 pm ET by Tinkerer3
This happens all the time with electrical posts. Every time I see one pop up I think to myself here we go again Thats why I try anymore to respond with an E-mail. Good luck and enjoy!
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
BTW, sorry for all that. I was just trying to help you out in your other thread. I've been wiring my own jobs, including 2 whole houses and 3 woodshops, for about 20 years. All are still standing. I had no idea that the sparky trolls would show up like that.
That was the first and last time I'll get involved in an electrical debate. Hope your shop is fine for 50 years.
Jeff
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled