To all, I am moving the shop into a two bay attached garage that will be shared with the family car and thus will be available to my VERY ACTIVE TWO YEAR OLD. I am almost power toolless now but things are about to change. My question is, how have the other people faced the challenge of keeping all of the fingers on their children? Portable power tools and hand tools are not as much of a concern to me as the big stuff, TS, BS, Chop Saw, Lathe, Planer, ETC. I don’t want to scare him out of the shop or create negative impressions so to speak, but I don’t want him looking at big green buttons and pushing them for fun. We are very good at keeping a stray eyeball on him but I want a little more insurance. I am sure that unplugging them all could solve the problem but it seems like a big PIA. I want him to be in the shop when I am in it and not have to hover over him. Has anyone found child proof switches or safety stuff that will deter the wildest of their imaginations. I have no other choice for shop space and need to reassure both my wife and myself that in 1.5 seconds he can’t turn on the TS. Any and all suggestions greatly appreciated.
Thanks Dave
Replies
Dave,
I'd put all the power lines on a seperate box (up high) so I sould throw the switch and not worry about sticking things in the sockets either. A two year old is too curious and will read your anxiousness with him/her around. The best thing is to have a bunch of kids so if you loose one....no,no, I'm teasing...
That was my approach also. One switch kills all the power into the shop. Since mine is also a storage shed/lawn & garden center/etc, I did not want power into there unless we are using it. I also do not leave anyting plugged in either.Kevin Arceneaux
Visit the Lone Wolf Activities for MS Trainsimulator at http://www.3dtrains.com
Dave:
When my kids were toddlers, I could not find any "child proofing" device that they didn't eventually figure out. BG's idea of a master switch to turn off the power to the plugs sounds like a good idea to me.
I'm sure you already figured out that even small kids are human recorder and playback machines. They will repeat everything they here you say and try to copy anything they see you doing. The real answer is to continue your diligence in watching them and impress on them how important it is to do things safely. No time like the present to teach safety.
Personally, I unplug everything in my shop except the radio. I do it for MY safety in case I act like a bonehead the next time I go into my shop. It's not really that much of a PIA.
Enjoy your 2-year-old. Kids are a blast!
Greg
Edited 6/6/2004 8:35 pm ET by FingerCuts
Dave,
First: padlocks. Install an electrical sub-panel that controls everything in the garage and keep the breakers in the OFF position and the cover locked when not in use.
Second: more padlocks. Buy a fist full of small padlocks and insert one through the holes in the prongs of each power plug for every portable power tool.
Third: more padlocks. Padlock your toolboxes, rolling tool carts, paint storage locker, etc.
Fourth: Simple rules, consistently reinforced.
Personally, I probably wouldn't allow a child in my shop without direct supervision until at least age 12 based in what I've seen instructing college-level woodworking students!
If this sounds like overkill, consider how you'd feel if your child was injured in your shop and these precautions may comprise cheap insurance.
Good luck,
-Jazzdogg-
Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
ever think of unpluging the tools? that is what i do.
david
http://www.darbynwoods.com
Dave,
What you're looking for is a machine enabling keypad (see photo below). The unit is wired in conjunction with a single machine's power (on/off) switch. This allows the machine to be plugged in with its breakers on, but the only way to start the machine is to type in your code, and then push the power button.
This web site carries these units, but they should be available from a local machinery supply store.
http://www.axiomatic.com/keypad.html
View Image
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Edited 6/6/2004 10:52 pm ET by Jackie Chan
I am sure that unplugging them all could solve the problem but it seems like a big PIA.
As compared to your son losing a finger, or worse? Mine stay unplugged when not in use, and when there are kids around. You can only use one at a time anyway, right? I don't think I'd let a 2-year-old in the shop while the power tools are in use. Likewise, if a child comes in the shop, the power tools get put away. What happens when you're ripping something on the tablesaw, and he decides to come up behind you and give you an unexpected hug? My oldest - about 5-6 at the time - decided to come into the shop as I was ripping something, grabbed my bench brush and decided to clean off the tablesaw, from the outfeed side, while I was in the middle of my cut. I motioned him away, finished the cut (figured it was better than stopping in the middle), and we had a discussion about shop safety right then and there. Safety features are not foolproof - or kidproof.
Besides, the kids like handtools. Just cutting a board into pieces or making shavings with a block plane makes them happy, and I think it helps encourage them more anyway.
I took a multi-pronged approach. Keep guards in place, lock switches wherever possible, lower blades, cut the power, preach "no", and monitor closely. Six kids and neighborhood visitors have posed no problems yet in three years.
I'd keep a child that age out of the shop. There's little, if anything, to be gained and a lot of downside to having a two year old in the shop.
The worst injury I've ever had happened while using a hand saw.
Don't delude yourself into thinking you can make a wood shop safe for a toddler. You can't.
Edited 6/7/2004 7:53 pm ET by cstanford
Dave,
Having raised two boys with the shop in the front yard, so to speak, I was not comfortable having toddlers in the workshop at all, while I was trying to work. If I was responsible for watching over them, I was not in the shop. When I leave the shop, current to the tools is cut at the breaker box. As I'm sure you are aware, a youngster can get into something in the blink of an eye. If you want your two year old to "help" you nail together a bird house, that's one thing, but trying to saw dovetails while he wanders the shop...
When each of my sons got to be 4-5yrs old, I gave him a little workbench about 3' long and 2' tall, complete with leg vise and tool rack on the back. Put their bench right at the end of mine so I could keep an eye on things. Tools were a small clawhammer, wooden mallet, screwdriver, pliers, and a little adjustable wrench. Always kept a box of nails and screws, and misc bolts & nuts on their bench, and told them anything in the scrap box was theirs to use. Any drilling, sawing, chiseling, took place under my supervision, until I was satisfied that they knew how to handle the tools safely. They made everything from boats to swords to revolvers to ferris wheels.Still, my youngest, now 20, carries the scar from a V parting tool on the back of his left hand, received when he was about 6. When I retired that bench, I bet it had 20# of 6d nails in its top!
If working wood is your hobby, I'm sure it's difficult not to get in the shop as often as you can. But I'd recommend keeping shop work separate from preschool-age child care as much as possible. Keep that little one safe.
Best wishes,
Ray
Keep the kids out of the shop. Hand tools have very sharp edges.
In addition finishing materials are not the best things to leave around kids.
If necesary close down your shop until your kids are bigger.
(I have 1 year old granddaughter who comes to visit 3 days a week for 8 hours. I close down my shop and play with her all day long.)
Edited 6/7/2004 10:01 am ET by GeorgeR
Dave ,your child is too precious to be in a dangerous enviroment such as a power tool enclosure. If at all, watch him constantly and don't be absorbed with any project even for an instant.
Better to take him outside and provide him with a small hammer and some scrap pieces of wood. (Round holes square pegs etc etc)
He'll appreciate the fact that he is 'Helping' you. My two sons and five grandsons all 'Helped ' by rearrainging my rack of screwdrivers in proper order.(Which I would occasionaly mix up before hand. I have key switches on all my power tools and locks on the garage doors.
.In my den, I have a large desk with a wide and deep top drawer.When the little ones visit, they head for that drawer to look at the hundred or so little 'Gimcracks' I store there.
If your boy really takes an interest in working with tools, give him a small cordless screwdriver (Without tips) He'll play with that for hours A little boy gets drunk with power with screw guns. And they never out grow that either. Stein
Since I'm a collecter of the worst order, there's always new and intriguing gadgets for the kids to explore. The teens are just as curious.
Steinmetz
Edited 6/7/2004 5:19 pm ET by steinmetz
they make some surprisingly large dog kennels... ;-)
m
Adding my 2 cents, toddlers should stay out of the shop period. They are more likely to trip and fall or just wack their head on something walking around. Exposure to saw dust and other chemicals can have a severe reaction to young developing lungs and skin. You can't take your eyes off a 2yr. old for a second. As others have stated, most commercial and school shops have all electricity supplied on a Buss bar with emergency switches that will shut off all power. There are lock out devices for every type of switch, search, lock out tag out. Create negative impressions around equipment, medications, guns and be firm about it. You are the boss until they are eighteen and the sooner they know it the better. When he is 10 or so that's the time to start teaching but not with power. Do not waffle on safety issues. Child proof your home thoroughly. Don't take my word for it, go to your local emergency room and talk to them, the statictics are staggering. Don't let your child be one of them.
My daughter is 3 so I speak from experience: KEEP THEM OUT OF THE SHOP. Those tools are too loud, sharp, heavy and attractive for little people. I make my daughter furniture all the time and she loves it. I show her how the pieces are progressing through stages and she goes ape waiting for the final product. I let her help me pretend sand (with a tiny swatch of sandpaper) and so forth. Put all the tools in a big lockable cabinet (your first project maybe?) and do not expose children to the loud sounds and nostril clogging dust. Please!
To all,
Thanks for firm and helpful comments on safety. It is true that I do not want him to be a statistic and I would never do anything in the shop that was obsorbing while he is in there. The focus would be on him either nailing together something or simply sweeping up shavings. He is fascinated by the broom right now. I cannot however simply walk away for a few years while he is growing up and I don't want him to see that. I want him to see Dad doing productive things around the house and that tools are a necessary and enjoyable part of life. I would roll over in my grave if he called a handyman to tighten up a sagging door or put together the swingset he bought. I agree that youngsters should not be using power tools of any sort, never mind all the razor sharp handtools. I nick myself now and again and I "think" I know what I'm doing. I like the idea of the mini workbench and had thought of it, but it was good to hear at what age others have done it. I very much appreciate the advice. I hadn't thought of wiring the whole shop to one panel with a master switch. This is a good idea and would solve lots of problems. I need to build a big cabinet asap for the handtools and put that under lock and key.
On a quick note, I bought one of the plastic mini workbenches at a tagsale and brought it home. He liked the idea it was his but the plastic hammer and screwdriver didn't fly. He quickly pointed to my hammer and my jackplane and demanded with much arm-waving that he be allowed to use them. I gave him my very lightest tack hammer and a piece of one by six and he amused himself to no end making dents.
Much appreciated
Dave
We did have some fun with some bird houses this Spring. I cut one out of Western Cedar and pre-drilled some holes. Grand Pa helped hold stuff and we made a temporary low bench. We then held everything we could and allowed her to help "assemble" the house with little nails and white glue. Afterwards we painted everything with a disposable foam brush and water based paint. The house turned out really cute and I am certain the birds were impressed. We gave her lots of breaks and we eliminated the power tools. It was just about all she could do to pay attention for that long but she did it. We talked it up for a long time beforehand and she was jazzed. Now it is one of her prized items, why she was showing it to the cat just today.
Yesterday I bought a new jigsaw and she put the word "jigsaw" together with "jigsaw puzzle". Being the world's best 3 year-old puzzle builder she was curious. I told her how the saw got it's name so..."Daddy, Daddy make me a puzzle". We will make it a family project, a jigsaw puzzle with pictures of vegetables from our garden on a small piece of 1/4" plywood scrap. Life just doesn't get any better.
Oh well, you've been sufficiently warned. Good luck.
Dave,
There is a fascinating article in the current issue of Woodwork that talks about a training program for children to help them develop their capabilities (mental and manual). 'Sloyd' was introduced into the education system around the turn of the century and apparently had a major impact on the childs development. The article indicated a project progression that rewarded the child with increasing manual and mental skills and the family with increasing product utility.
I'm sure a google search could provide some more info...maybe even the age specific progression. At 2 yrs old the focus is Butt Joints....get your butt out of this joint...lol
Having a kid in the shop is ok if you yourself aren't trying to do any serious wood working. I made my son a little bench with a little hammer and square and pencil when he was 3. I'd make all the components for a birdhouse or something with pilot holes etc all drilled. Then I'd invite him down and he'd wack at things with a hammer and then slop paint over things. Big fun.
He is seven now and knows the rules. He doesn't come into the shop unless I am there. The shop islocked and everything is unplugged.He never speaks to me with a power tool on. He is not allowed to use any power tool. He knows where to stand when I have each tool on and he knows about kickbacks.
I have added tools to his bench. He has an egg beater drill, block plane and a small saw. He cross cut a piece of cherry the other day and was pretty close to the line. We are finishing a pretty nice little box he made- a little rough maybe.
So, it can be done. It has to be done very carefully and incrementally. It also depends on the kid. My daughter is into everything and an accident waiting to happen. She doesn't go into the shop yet.
Have fun, be carefull.
Frank
thinking back to when I was a small child, the only power tool in dad's shop was the saw which was only ever connected to the power when he was actually cutting with it. We were banned from the shop at those times (and we didn't want to be there because the saw was too noisy). All the outlets and switches were too high for anyone shorter than about 4'6" to reach.
Many a joyful hour was spent under dad's feet collecting the shavings from whatever project he was planing at the time. Dad kept a handful of hand tools and wood scraps for the kids to play with and we had a space outside the shop proper where we could play. "my plane" was a Stanley #90 – which I discovered yesterday is a 1900 original – "my hammer" was a tack hammer which as I got older and stronger was replaced with a 4oz Warrington. As I got older I was allowed to use a small saw, but never the chisels or power tools.
I have great memories from those times and am encouraging my own son (now 5) to "help". He loves it.
Oops Dave! Your son has already "taught YOU" that if he waves his arms and fusses, you give in and he gets what he wants. Our 3 1/2 yo grandson is allowed in the shop but he only gets to use HIS tools at his little workstation. Should he wave his arms and fuss that he wanted something else (EVEN if it was something we were going to introduce to him soom) he DEFINITELY would not get it at that moment in time. That's rewarding bad behavior. That's not to say that he doesn't occasionally help drill holes with the big drill press but only when I or my husband say, "Hunter, come on over here and help with this."
We never work on OUR projects when Hunter is in the shop - that's our time with him and he has our undivided attention. If on occasion Doug was working on something, he would only do it if I were in the shop to give Hunter MY undivided attention.
We also have one main breaker in the shop that turns off everything and it gets pulled whenever we leave the shop, but when Hunter's in the shop, everything is unplugged unless we're using it.
Doug took Hunter last Saturday to HD to make a little toolbox to give to his daddy on Father's Day. He already realizes that what we do at home is WAY COOLER than what they let them do there!
Robin"Well-behaved women rarely make history."from the Sweet Potato Queens' Book of Love
Walk away from your shop and spend time with your son.
When I was young, I played with my kids during the day and did my work when they were not around.
I built my daughter a house when she was 25. She learned real quick how to handle tools then.
Dave, I feel compeled to add another post to this thread in lieu of a tragedy in my town this week. A 3 1/2" yr. old was out fishing on the bank with Grandad. Grandad walked a few steps to the tackle box and the boy slipped in and drowned. Unless you are in your shop 24/7 to watch, you are telling your son that the shop is a place to play. He will go there if given a chance with or without you. If you believe that now is the time to teach him about tools then set him up with his own "nerf" shop separate from yours. Steel hammers and 2 yr. olds don't go thogether. This is not about you. Your sons health could be at stake. Saw dust alone is a known carcinogen, read your MSDS. Don't mean to judge you on the basis of a woodworkers thread, obviously you are concerned enough to post a question. The word no should mean something serious and a little temper tantrum should not change it. You don't have to quit woodworking, just have the little one supervised somewhere else while you are at it.
Reminds me of the time I was putting new ball joints on my Chevy - a PITA job if there ever was one. Lots of hammering and cussing, with my 6 year old actually sitting across my legs to be close to the action.
Finally, I said, " Ben, why don't you go inside and see what your Momma's doing ? " His response was classic, " Can't . . . I'm helping you ! "
Then there was the time I sent him after a screwdriver, and he came back with a bottle of vodka and a jug of orange juice !
; ) Greg
Greg,
I wish my son was as thoughtful!
Also a Greg
Greg,
One of my buddies had occasion to ask his boy to go get him a screwdriver. His son asked him did he want a "plus" or a "minus" screwdriver? After a little thought, dad realized he was being asked to choose between phillips head (plus) or slotted (minus). Funny the way those little minds work...
Cheers,
Ray
Hi Dave,
I vote to keep the little one out of the shop. My kids, ages 6 and 8, occasionally come into the shop while I briefly do something. They are never in there when I am focused and working. I find there are so many places they can bang their heads; the table saw, boards on my bench, shelves, etc.
There are more old drunkards than old doctors. Ben Franklin
Dave,
Hope you get time to read all these. I cherish my son(now 22 mos old) and my shoptime is precious. I am grateful to combine the two. I have two master switches up high and all cords to peripheral tools I plug into a central drop cord. I can verify all power dead in less time than I can think it. A shop cannot be both productive and child proof. I do not get anything productive done with Caleb out there. I can't sweep, use any power tools or sharpen. I can use chisels, handplanes, saws.... I still love to share something I enjoy with my son. Incidentally, he could thread a machine screw and screw it in with a screwdriver at 16 months.
Good luck
The only way to keep a two year old safe is constant supervision,a moments distraction can mean serious injury.Power tools are not the only cause for concern any sharp,pointed tool,a chisel,a scribe ,utility knife or blade can cause injury.If he must be in the shop place him in an area in plain view from any place in the shop.It is always necassary to practice safety for both you and and the child. The saying goes "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
,
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