Replies

1. 
   fdampier5 | Jan 12, 2003 04:31am | #1

   woody,

     I have a Jet and am only semi pleased with it.. in retrospect I wish I'd bought a  Grizzley  for $425   more power and a much better stand..

1. 
   alias | Jan 12, 2003 05:21am | #2

   i got the grizzly 3 hp for a few more dollars but i think it's worth it. nice tool ....... 1 more vote for grizzly

1. 
   measuretwice | Jan 12, 2003 05:27am | #3

   Hi - I appreciate your response.  I presume you got the Grizzly model G1026?  How do you feel about the fence and hold-downs?  I can't tell much from their website, but the fence appears to be lower and less substantial than the Delta 43-300 series.  (I'd like the hold-downs to be high & rigid enough to machine 1x6 upright.)

   Does the fence have decent micro-adjustments?  Can the sides be adjusted separately?

   Thanks

1. 
   alias | Jan 12, 2003 06:48am | #5

   sounds like your informed shopper woody. the weak link on the shaper is the fence, but at half the price of let say delta and a third of the price of powermatic. the hold downs aren' great but you can buy others or make them or buy a power feeder ($$$), the micros are pretty good but again the delta seem to be larger and the knobs, threads are a little more substantial. but i modified them(bought knobs from woodworker warehouse and hartville) and everything moves a little smoother, and the bottom line is i like it for the money. do you need a 3 h.p. it wasnt the motor i needed but the table ,case and and amount of belts on the motor that got me where just as significant as the big money items... so i jumped in and i'm pretty glad about it. there's also i believe a pdf file on thr grizzly website that you can download thats what i looked at before i bought about a year ago....good luck on your search....bear

   Edited 1/11/2003 11:43:53 PM ET by the bear

1. 
   tryan | Jan 12, 2003 12:13pm | #6

   I recently purchased the Delta Limited edition shaper and couldn't be happier with it. My old router table wheezed when I panel-raised. I looked at the Jet 3 HP model but was turned off by the lack of mass. (The machine wasn't beefy enough for me). I'm not sure about the Grizzly though. The delta is heavier and has a nice big cast iron surface. Now I hardly use my router table anymore. I also bought a power feeder to use with my shaper. (it's a big scary monster to feed by hand :). Best of luck

   -Tom

2. 
   JeffKurtz | Jan 25, 2003 07:05am | #10

   You'd better check again on "beefiness" - the Jet outweighs the Delta by 10 lbs.

   Jeff

3. 
   riverr1 | Jan 25, 2003 05:15pm | #12

   Jeff,

   Generally true, but I don't think this applies to the limited addition shaper. The 3  hp JET model is about 100 lbs less. May have to do with shipping and actual weights though.

   Don

   Edited 1/25/2003 9:16:27 AM ET by Don C.

4. 
   JeffKurtz | Jan 25, 2003 06:40pm | #13

   Don,

   How've you been?  Colder than hell up here in duh UP!  Don't you wish you were still living here?

   I just ran a check on Amazon, and they show the 3 hp. Jet weighing 9 lbs more than the limited edition Delta.  I do have to say that the fence and hold down on the Delta look a lot better than the ones on my Jet which are an absolute joke.

   Keep warm.

   Jeff

5. 
   riverr1 | Jan 26, 2003 05:04am | #15

   Hi Jeff,

   I used International tool for the Jet weight and someone else (tools-plus??) for the Delta. Had the Delta at 100 lbs more then the Jet. Dosen't matter, I got the GI! ;-))))))

   Cold huh? I can only imagine from what we've had down here. Actually I wouldn't mind visiting this time of year. Yep, sit in the house and look and the nice scenery!

   Know of any good sources of rough sawn White Pine in your area? Good source also means good price! ;-)

   Don

6. 
   TKanzler | Jan 26, 2003 05:29am | #16

   I probably shouldn't climb into the middle of this, but per the Delta 2003 catalog, the HD shaper is 424 lb with one extension wing (43-445), and 456 lb with two wings and a few extra goodies (43-455).  The Jet, per their web site, is 320 lb.  These appear to be actual net weights, not shipping weights.Be seeing you...

7. 
   JeffKurtz | Jan 26, 2003 06:00pm | #17

   Delta's web site lists it at 436 lbs. with 2 extension wings and mobile base.  That would seem to make up for the differences between the two machines, which (for those who think there's some substantial difference between the two) is not surprising since they both probably are built by Mao Shan.

   Jeff

2. 
   measuretwice | Jan 12, 2003 05:30am | #4

   Hi - apreciate your response.  Which model Jet did you get?  At this point I am inclined to JWS-34L

1. 
   fdampier5 | Jan 12, 2003 06:45pm | #7

   amen to the purchase of a power feeder!    when you are working with larger stuff or major removal of material it helps that it's feed by a power feeder rather than by hand,  I'm always a little nervous regarding feeding stock no matter what holddown I use.  It seems that if I use enough pressure for it to be fully secure against the fence I then have trouble smoothly pushing it thru.

     Now if you are gonna use it like a router in a stand it really doesn't matter,  you just take your timeand make light passes, however if like me you hog out a bunch as quickly as possible you need a feeder...

1. 
   measuretwice | Jan 25, 2003 03:55am | #9

   Thanks frenchy for your advise on the stock feeder.  I feel like a very lucky boy today.  Yesterday I got a used but very nice 3 hp Powermatic model 26 shaper and the seller included a decent 1/4 hp stock feeder.  Whole ball of wax for $800!

1. 
   clampman2 | Jan 25, 2003 08:23am | #11

   Woody,

   You have my condolences if you bought a powermatic. I battled with a powermatic 5hp shaper for 13 years before recently purchasing an Italian machine that is woodworker friendly and was designed by someone with a viable brain. I'd have done it years ago if I thought I'd still be in this business.

   The only thing worth saving on the powermatic is the motor. It had a good 5hp Baldor motor.

   The littlest "Sicar" shaper they make, which I bought new for $3289 is, I think, by far the best deal in the shaper world for someone who plans on actually making a living with a shaper (and other shop tools of course), and is also on a tight budget.

   If you wind up using a shaper a lot, you'll probably find that the shaper itself is the cheapest part of the operation. If you start using pinch collar heads with ball bearing collars, various insert heads, corregated back knife heads, stackable sets, panel raising wing cutters, indexable angle heads, not to mention all the knife grinding expenses; you will quickly see that the shaper itself is the cheap part.

   If you are real lucky, you have a 1 1/4" spindle on the powermatic. If you are very unlucky you'll have a 3/4 spindle. If you are medium lucky you will have a 1". If so, if I were you I would buy all heads, etc. everything, with 1 1/4" bores and bush down to 1". That way, all your expensive tooling won't be garbage when you upgrade.

   When the bushings won't fit onto the spindle, it is not because the ID of the bushings is too small, it is because the threads on the soft spindle have been squished out by over tightening the spindle nut, a common ocurrance with woodworkers new to using a shaper (myself included). The threads's OD can be reduced by carefully running a fine file over them with the machine running, and with the filer wearing a t shirt - no long sleeves or watches.

   If you ever need to remove the spindle, you can crawl half into the machine and completely remove the top bolt of the two bolts that hold the 150 pound motor suspended in mid air from the dished table. Wear gloves for this operation. Make sure you remove the belt before starting. And don't forget to support the quill with one hand while loosening the pinch collar bolt that holds the quill in. If you are fortunate enough to have one which actually loosens to quill, if you are not holding it up with the other hand, the quill will come crashing down on the second, and only, bolt head now holding the motor in the machine, smashing the cast alluminum pulley on the spindle. These cost over a hundred bucks each, and are the only part that powermatic stocks. But they will probably not have the same size as the one you have, but they may have one with the right bore ( be sure to tell them the bore size.

   If your particular machine is like mine, the bolt holding the quill in will not release the quill. That must be accomplished by a special

   tool called a tire iron. It is almost essential to custom grind the tool to obtain sufficient purchase to aid in removing the quill. Since one hand will be engaged in protecting the spindle pulley, you will have only one other hand to manuver the tire iron. With practice you can do it relatively quickly.

   If your powermatic is like mine, the motor pulley and spindle pulley will not be in the same or even parallel planes, and there is no way to adjust anything to make them so, short of a re-manufacturing job.

   Don't worry about it. Just keep some spare belts on hand. My model has a built in warning when the belt needs changing. It vibrates even more than normal, and the belt starts running inside out. I get mine at a lawn and tractor place; powermatic doesn't know what size mine takes, even though I bought the machine brand new in 1987. After getting the wrong belt from them the first time and the second time, I told them to send me every *ing belt they ever had from 1970 to 1988. I got 4 and none fit. They were about $40.00 each or something ridiculous. Nor do they know what size nut holds their pulleys on.

   If you are having trouble with your setups, matching cope and stick heights, make sure you are always cranking up with the spindle to take out the revolution or so of backlash. This should probably be done with considerable pressure on the quill lock. The quill lock on mine moves the entire quill perhaps an eighth of an inch when I lock it.

   You may want to keep a good supply of feeler gauges on hand to get the fences parallel. I had to do it for each setup since the parallelity changes with fence position.

   I took a side grinder to the top of my fence, to make the top hole big enough to accept a standard wing cutter without having to crank the quill half way down to get the cutter onto the spindle. That was a big time saver.

   I hope these tips have helped you, Woody. You've got a machine that will make a real operator out of you.

   Best of luck.

   Clampman

2. 
   measuretwice | Jan 25, 2003 09:45pm | #14

   Thanks Clampman for your detailed response.  I will watch out for the things you mention...but I hope you're wrong about most of them!  And will buy 1-1'4" stuff when possible (it has "medium-lucky" 1" spindle).  For your reference, I am not unfamiliar with quality problems in tools -- check out my posting in the discussion "Disappointed In Porter Cable Quality".

   Having bought a Powermatic 66 table saw in the late 80's, I think I am familiar with the low point in their quality.  Table wings tilted up, table surface mushroomed up around the tee slots, nothing deburred, no Loctite on clamping setscrews, miter gage not flat or square to table, etc.  But the thing does have plenty of IRON (blessed IRON!) and once I got her all flattened and straightened and squared up, she does an very nice job.  With the Biesmeyer fence I can cut stuff to within .005" no problem, which amazes me.

   My "new" shaper dates from the 70's; machining, fit, and finish look quite good.  Spindle quiet.  Expect I'll have to do some tuning but I think for my purposes -- occasional use -- it will be adequate.  It appears to be significantly more solid than the other shapers I checked in the price range (like the Delta 43-437).  I particularly like the heavy dovetail for the elevation mechanism.

   Good luck!

2. 
   fdampier5 | Jan 12, 2003 06:51pm | #8

   Mine's a JWS 18 I originally bought it instead of a router and table. like I said some's good mores better and too much is never enough!