Replies

1. 
   tincup57 | Nov 19, 2008 02:59am | #1

   Bandit, I just recently bought the following blade for my 20 year old Powermatic Artisan 63 from Pro Saw Blades http://www.prosawblades.com - (no affiliation) I was a Forrest II user for most of those 20 years, but this blade slices through 1- 3/4" Ash without straining and cross cuts as clean as anything I have used. I also rip and cross cut 8/4 cherry with no burning. I'm sure you will get many opionions as there are woodowrker's, but I think it is money well spent. Good luck with whatever you choose. Rick

   Tenryu GM-25540 Gold Medal 10" X 40T; 5/8" Bore; ATB Grind; C.T. Saw Blade View Image View Image View Image View Image View Image View Image

2. 
   Knotscott | Nov 19, 2008 03:31am | #2

   I've tried most of the heavy weight general purpose/combo blades, and there are several that are very versatile that are capable of leaving a glue ready edge. Most that I tried were used on a hybrid saw with similar power as yours. Even though several of the blades are excellent, they're not all the same, and some are better suited for some applications than others depending on what you'll be cutting.

   Stick with high quality. Some of the brands offer multiple lines that are aimed at different markets and have different quality objectives, so know what line and model you're looking at. A 3/32" thin kerf will be easier for the saw to spin, especially in thick materials. Most saws will spin a full kerf fairly well too, but a good TK definitely has lower feed pressure. Some of the top brands are Infinity, Ridge Carbide, Freud, Forrest, Tenryu, Amana, Leitz, DeWalt/Delta among others. I'm very fond of the thin kerf Forrest WWII 30T and 40T blades, the Ridge Carbide TS2000 TK, and the Infinity Combomax "Lite" (010-124) for use on saws under 3hp. In full kerf I like the Infinity Super General (very similar to the Freud Fusion), DeWalt DW7640, and DW7657. The Tenryu Gold Medal is a medium kerf blade at 0.111" and is also excellent. In the "bang for the buck" category, the Oshlun line is surprisingly good for the money.

   You might consider grabbing two blades instead of one, and expand the range of your blade capability. A pair of blades like the Infinity 010-060 60T (0.104" TK) or a Freud LU88R010 60T TK mated with 24T TK FTG ripper like the Infinity 010-124 or Freud LU87R010 will take you further in the extreme ranges of ripping in thick stock (24T) and cleaner cuts in medium stock (60T). Both the LU88 and 010-060 are quite versatile for general purpose work, and the Infinity is superior in plywood, melamine, and crosscutting hardwoods.

   http://woodworkerszone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Table_Saw_Blade_Comparisons

   
   

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   Edited 11/18/2008 7:34 pm ET by Knotscott

1. 
   bandit9497 | Nov 19, 2008 07:42am | #6

   Thanks for the input.  Is the 30T or 40T enough for a clean cut?  Seems that I have read that more teeth are better.

1. 
   Knotscott | Nov 19, 2008 03:16pm | #8

   I wish it were as simple as saying more teeth equals a cleaner cut, but there are a lot of parameters blended together to achieve the final result. Number of teeth, the grind type, hook angle, side relief angle, gullet size, quality of materials, body design, final sharpening, kerf width, and much more all play important roles. More teeth means a cleaner cut if all other design parameters are equal (they rarely are), but there's no free lunch. More teeth also mean a slower cut that poses higher feed pressure that can be more prone to burning and laboring the saw. Using one blade for most tasks requires a blade that excels in being versatile but it won't excel in any one aspect of cutting. Dedicated rip blades that are very efficient at ripping thick stock with less effort tend to have 20-24 teeth, a steep hook angle, and a flat top grind (FTG). Blades intended specifically for crosscuts tend to have 60-80T with a more moderate hook angle and typically have an alternating top bevel grind (ATB). Blades intended specifically for clean cuts in veneered plywood and melamine tend to have a similar tooth configuration as a crosscut blade, but often feature a grind called "Hi-ATB" that has a steeper bevel for cleaner slicing of fibers and less chipping and tearout. General purpose or combination (combo) blades are capable of doing an acceptable job in all of these funtions, but to a lesser degree of "expertise" in the extreme ranges. Most general purpose blades run in the 40T range, have a steep hook, and an ATB grind. Most combination blades have 50T, have a moderate hook angle, and use a combination grind called an ATB/R, which is typically seen as 10 groupings of 5 teeith, 4 of which are an ATB grind with the 5th tooth being a flat raker. Clean cut is important up to a point, which really depends on what results you want. If the objective is to produce a flat glueable edge for joining, most good quality blades of 24T or more accomplish that. You're not likely to get acceptable tearout results if you crosscut with a 24T ripping blade, and inversely, you're not likely to be able to rip very effectively with an 80T crosscut blade without burning and laboring the saw, thus a decision needs to be made whether to have separate blades for each task or whether to use a GP/combo type blade, or even some variation of those. Even if you pursue separate blades, a decent general purpose or combo blade is still a must have IMO. I tend to cut a lot of hardwoods and very few sheet goods, so I rarely need the services of a my high toothcount crosscut or plywood blades...even though those blades make slightly cleaner crosscuts, the edge still has minor saw marks that need to be cleaned up prior to receiving a finish on an exposed edge, so I find that most of the premium general purpose or combo blades do an acceptable job without needing to change blades....by "acceptable", I mean that for an exposed edge they still need to be cleaned up prior to finish, just like the cut from an 80T blade would, but don't tearout badly enough to ruin anything, and still offer the benefit of glueable edges from ripping along with a great deal of versatility.To answer the specific question you posed to me, the 30T WWII has the same configuration and geometry as the 40T WWII but with fewer teeth, and thus more gullet area which helps it rip thicker materials more effectively than other GP/combo types.....it's ATB grind and precise grinding help it crosscut reasonably well. A great choice if you use alot of 1-2" hardwoods. The 40T would be better suited for plywood, but not ideal for plywood. The Infinity Super General and Freud Fusion are unique in that both are 40T GP blades that have a steep hook and a Hi-ATB grind and double side grind, which makes them particularly good at crosscuts and plywood for a GP type blade. The dual side grind gives them a burnished edge, but that same feature can also lead to burning if the feedrate slows too much. This article is good reading:
   http://www.rockler.com/articles/display_article.cfm?story_id=72Here are some specific blade reviews that might also help:
   http://www.epinions.com/review/Forrest_WW10307100_Woodworker_Ii_10_30_Tooth_5_8_Arbor_3_32_Kerf_Circular_Saw_Blade/content_411771899524http://www.epinions.com/reviews/Infinity_10_60_Tooth_General_Purpose_Saw_Blade_010_060_epihttp://www.epinions.com/review/Infinity_Super_General_10_40_Tooth_General_Purpose_Blade_epi/content_420337454724http://www.epinions.com/review/Freud_10_in_x_24T_Saw_Blade_Thin_Kerf_Ripping/content_427607625348http://www.epinions.com/review/Freud_60T_Crosscut_Table_Saw_Blade_LU88R010/content_226312687236

   Edited 11/19/2008 7:21 am ET by Knotscott

2. 
   charlesm | Nov 19, 2008 03:52pm | #9

   To add to what Scott said (and he said it very well), Tooth quantity on a blade depends on the application. For instance, ripping creates large curls of wood so a larger gullet between the teeth is needed to eject this chip. This limits the number of teeth possible on the blade. Crosscuts make much smaller chips so a smaller gullet is okay and there is room for more teeth. Aside from gullet size there is also the issue of chip load. For each application there is an ideal size of chip that each tip will produce that will ensure the most efficient cutting with the least amount of heat. A good general rule of thumb is to have 3 to 5 teeth working in the wood when ripping and 5 to 7 when crosscutting. A 40T General Purpose blade like the P410 Premier Fusion is the compromise point for most uses since it is on the high end of the range for ripping and the low end for crosscuts. A dedicated rip blade used for 3/4" to 1-1/2" stock would be more efficient in the 24T to 30T range and a crosscut blade for the same stock would be best in the 60T to 80T range (all for 10" blades). Let me know if you would like specific blade recommendations.
   Charles M

   Freud America, Inc.

1. 
   bandit9497 | Nov 19, 2008 08:03pm | #10

   Thanks also to Scot.  I have spent quite a bit of time reading and learning.  I can't remember when I have had such fun deciding on a part of my new shop.

   I think I have reduced possible selections to the following and would like any other thoughts.  Most of my work for the near future will be in 1" or less woods.  Mostly hard / softwood or veneer.

   Table Saw -- either the WWII or the Freud LU86R

   Miter Saw (12") -- either the Chopmaster or the Freud 85R

    

3. 
   JeffHeath | Nov 19, 2008 04:16am | #3

   I have been using the Forrest Woodworker II for 15 years or so, and think they are the best out there.  That's my recommendation.  I have 4 of them.

   Jeff

    

4. 
   flairwoodworks | Nov 19, 2008 04:27am | #4

   I haven't used a Forrest, which is considered top of the line, but have been completely satisfied using the stock Makita blade in my 12 miter saw.  I also bought a $80 Irwin Marathon blade for $40 and have been equally impressed.

   Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   bandit9497 | Nov 19, 2008 07:40am | #5

   Thanks for the suggestions.  Did you find that the number of teeth per blades was important?

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Nov 19, 2008 09:22pm | #11

   For crosscutting, more teeth yields a cleaner cut.  I think that my blades are in the 60-80 tooth range.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

5. 
   PeterThomson | Nov 19, 2008 08:55am | #7

   I haven't used many different types of blades, but have been really happy with my CMTs ("combo", rip and fine cut (melamine work, 80 teeth)).  Buddies use the Forrest II and rave about them, too. 

   My 2 cents is that once you reach the level of a "good" blade (however you want to define that) the extra $$ for blades doesn't pay off in quality of cut directly, so much as ability to have them resharpened.... Which... Allows for higher quality of cuts.  A bit of circular logic, I know.

    

   Peter 

6. 
   Oldtool | Nov 20, 2008 03:07am | #12

   I use to try to buy the best and then have it sharpened, which was always a pain. The last ten years I simple buy a $30-40 blade and pitch it when I think it is getting dull. With the expensive blades I fell in love with them and always had a little pile of blades needing sharpened. Life is much better now.  John

7. 
   oldusty | Nov 20, 2008 04:30am | #13

      The quality of cut you get also depends on the TS power and such , assuming all is well this can be very simple . For a the TS you can get by with a 50t combo blade and an 80t blade with a negative rake for all veneers , Melamines and plywoods .

       I believe in buying better than a low dollar blade and have had my blades some for 25 years and sharpened many times . Regardless of the brand buy quality you will never regret it .

            regards        dusty