Replies

1. 
   MBerger | Jan 16, 2007 08:46pm | #1

   Hi Bruce,

   I apologize. I too can't find your original post which leads me to believe that instead of moving your question to our finishing expert Peter Gedrys, I accidentally deleted it!

   Peter is pretty good at getting back to people quickly so you should hear from him in the next day or two.

   In the meantime, here's an article we published a few years back with tricks for concealing sapwood with dyes and stains. It might apply to your situation.

   Regards,
   Matt Berger
   Fine Woodworking

    

1. 
   BArmstrong | Jan 16, 2007 09:28pm | #2

   Thanks Matt
   I have already seen and read that article and am looking for more of a "Mass Production" method. Is it possible to bleach or soak out the colour while the wood is still green. The methods in that article are far too labour intensive for large planks. Bruce

1. 
   MBerger | Jan 16, 2007 10:38pm | #3

   Still no ideas for removing the streaks, but I did find some relevant info for what might be causing it in this article: Seasoned Wood: What You Need To Know.

   "Both air- and kiln-drying can cause a chemical gray stain in hardmaple. Brown stain in white pine often begins in the air-drying stage, though invisible at that point. The stain is exposed when kiln dried at temperatures above 130°. If maintaining color is of prime importance, properly controlled kiln-drying is the best method."

1. 
   BArmstrong | Jan 16, 2007 11:32pm | #4

   Thanks again Matt
   I pulled that artical out of your files prior to sawing my logs and was carefull to follow several of it's pointers. The colouring I'm referring to is not a brown in the Pine as the artical suggests but a gray streaking. Did you by chance get the photo that I had attached to my original Email.
   On a 24 inch wide plank the streaks come in about 4 to 5 inches from the bark and represents a sizeable amout of area. These trees were felled in August, cut in October, stickered properly and protected from the sun. The wood kept outside in a carport is showing the same features as the wood I have moved inside my shop where it's much warmer (I'm in Camada) to dry a little faster. There is a clearly defined "edge" to where the gray of the sapwood stops. Will this disappear as the wood dries and if so is it useable. Is this area unstable because it's sapwood and better discarded or can I remove the colour.
   Thanks again
   Bruce

1. 
   peter28 | Jan 17, 2007 04:28pm | #5

   Bruce,

   I understand you want to use the whole width of the board and and don't want the grey of the sap wood.

   Do you plan on coloring (dye stain)? If so what color? You can blend with colorants. Bleaching is another solution but you have to bleach the entire piece and that can open a different can of worms. If you have a sacrificial piece, try some different steps to see if you like the results.

   I like using dyes to get a "ground" color. Often with streaks, it will help blend them in and follow that with a stain or glaze to further blend the surfaces. Needless to say this takes a little practice.

   If you didn't plan on coloring the other solution is to rip off the offending area.

   Weigh the pros and cons. How much time do you want to spend on it?

   What are you using the planks for?

   Peter

    

    

    

2. 
   BArmstrong | Jan 17, 2007 08:31pm | #6

   Thanks Peter.
   That's some very interesting thoughts. All of this wood will ultimatly be used for cupboards or furniture in one way or another. I am prepared to spend a great deal of time at this point because the wood will be drying for a while. I have done a lot of experimenting with water based dyes after reading several of FWW articles (never having used them before) and have pretty much decided on my method. To get the colour I'm after I will seal the Pine with 1lb shellac then colour it with Minwax 605 (Oil base) then....I still haven't decided on my topcoat but I know I don't want to end up the bluish haze that some products give. I'm leaning more towards a yellowish finish. I have spent the last month just playing with the colours and would consider it to be benificial getting a tiny bit more red into the base before the Shellac goes on. As you suggest that red "Ground Colour" as a water based dye may help diffuse the gray. I'll play with that some because I sure hate to have to rip those boards.Thanks
   Bruce

3. 
   peter28 | Jan 18, 2007 02:55am | #7

   Bruce,

   What color is the Minwax 605? To get a little more red in the background with a dye try one of the red mahogany colors or an amber maples ( more on the golden orange side). You can dilute them quite a bit for just a hint of color or make them strong to give a glow under your oil stain. Just remember to wet the wood first to raise the grain and sand it back before applying a water dye.

   Another way is to add a little TransTint red to your dye. Just be careful with Transtint as it is very strong and a little can go a long way. Also, red can over power a color quickly so use it sparingly. Another one would be the reddish brown. It's very similar to burnt sienna. Add it to some water first then to your dye.

   Another experiment is to use a tinted shellac. Again a Trans Tint would come in handy. Add a drop or two in a little alcohol first and then add it to your shellac. This way you have good control with the color. You'll be surprised what a little tint can do especially with multiple coats. Check out Homestead Finishing for a color list.

   A good way to see the results of tinting is to have a white paper plate at hand. When you start to tint the shellac, brush a little onto the plate to test it's strength. Don't make it too strong, remember you can always add a little more.

   You can also explore the various shellacs; seed lac will give you an old golden brown surface, add some de-waxed orange or ruby shellac to some blonde and the surface will glow.

   Have some fun and let us know what you come up with.

   Peter

    

    

4. 
   BArmstrong | Jan 18, 2007 04:47pm | #8

   Thanks a Million Peter. This will keep me busy for a while.Bruce

5. 
   ccrocker | Jan 29, 2007 09:39pm | #9

   I am very much a novice woodworker but I have ran into this with some pine I had sawed. I was told by someone more Knowlegble than myself that the grayish-blue streaks were caused by mold or moisture in the wood that molded after the wood had been cut. I have no idea if this is correct, but I can tell you I tried various wood bleaches (oxiallic acid, and a strong Cholrine) and nothing touched it.

   I continued to build a piece out of it and the gray streaks showed through the stain. I did not try to dye the wood, I just used a cheap pigment stain. The person I built the piece for actually liked it so it worked out.

   Clay