Replies

1. 
   saschafer | Jun 15, 2009 06:57pm | #1

   What look are you trying to achieve? I use Waterlox Original on (solid) cherry without incident. If you're worried about blotching, then a thin coat of shellac might reduce it slightly, but probably not enough to make a noticeable difference in the long run.

   Whatever finish schedule you decide to use, what's the number one rule? That's right: Try it out on a test piece!

   -Steve

    

1. 
   Blkbrk | Jun 15, 2009 08:28pm | #3

   The cabinets that I have are constructed with 3/4" cherry plywood.  On my first few test pieces, I started with a polyurethane.  To my frustration, I could not for the life of me get the poly to "flow".  I had no problem on the solid cherry itself.  By "flow" I mean there where wipe marks and brush streaks no matter what I tried.

   I decided to try Waterlox because a friend recommended the product.  Very rarely have I been unable to smooth out brush marks, etc. in poly, so this is really frustrating me.

1. 
   saschafer | Jun 15, 2009 08:42pm | #4

   Assuming this was not a water-based polyurethane, it usually helps to thin the first coat a bit--maybe 10-20%--with mineral spirits. Once you've laid down that first coat, the rest go down more easily.

   But I agree with your friend--Waterlox is easier to use, although more time-consuming, since it requires more coats to get the same amount of build. You can, by the way, apply your polyurethane the same way if you want. Just thin it a bit more--maybe 25-40%--and you can apply it like you would Waterlox. (Again, this only works with oil-based finishes.)

   -Steve

    

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 16, 2009 12:29am | #5

   Waterlox is a brand, not a specific product.  Usually, when one refers to Waterlox, without other modifier they mean the Original/Sealer, which is thin for easy use as a wiping varnish.  There is also Satin, which has a bit more solids content, and Gloss which has a much higher solids content and would want thinning to be used as a wiping varnish.  The Waterlox company even makes  polyurethane varnish, why, I haven't a clue. 

   Varnish, including polyurethane varnish, sold primarily for brushing invariably need thinning even for brushing.  The labels will lie about this point.  They tell you not to thin because of VOC regulations that would be violated if they told you to add the thinner. 

1. 
   Blkbrk | Jun 16, 2009 12:57am | #6

   I am heading back out to fight with my cabinet.  Thanks for the advice.  Unfortunately, I had to completely strip the previous finish off. 

   In my experimenting on my test pieces, I did have some luck with a layer of tung oil, a layer of wiping poly, and then a layer of full poly.  Actually came out very nice.

   Maybe I'll wait for a project not so frustrating to play with the Waterlox.

   Thanks again.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 16, 2009 04:37am | #7

   You do need to speak nicely to the cabinet so it won't fight back so much. 

2. 
   Gretchen | Jun 16, 2009 03:43pm | #8

   What was your "tung oil"? It might have just been another wiping varnish blend.

   You could do the entire project very easily and with great results just using wiping varnish. No frustrating brushing/marks, drips.Gretchen

3. 
   Blkbrk | Jun 16, 2009 07:14pm | #9

   It was tung oil.  It made the poly lay down a lot better.  Will keep going down this route.  Next time I will expand my options.

   Oh, I stopped talking nice to the cabinet when I had to strip it yesterday morning.  Now we are only giving each other dirty looks in the shop--the silence is deafening.

   Thanks again.

4. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 16, 2009 07:22pm | #10

   The question was based on the fact that there are a great many products labeled tung oil finish.  The only product that is really tung oil says either 100% Tung Oil, or Pure Tung Oil.  If it doesn't say those specific words, it is either an oil/varnish mix or a wiping varnish.  Formby's, for example, is a wiping varnish Minwax is an oil/varnish mix. 

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Jun 15, 2009 07:34pm | #2

   There isn't a particular reason to use a sealer between stain and top coat.  As far as sanding sealer goes this depends on what you mean.  Zinsser SealCoat is  marketed as a sealer, though it is just dewaxed shellac and could just as well be used as a top coat.  Dewaxed shellac, including dewaxed shellac mixed from flakes, works well as a barrier coat between incompatible materials. 

   But other products labeled "sanding sealer" are generally undesirable and are not needed.  The top coat itself seals just as well as these sanding sealer products.  Sanding sealer typically has stearate added to make them particularly easy to sand.  But this chemical soap also reduces the overall durability of the finish.  It's main use is as a commercial expedient. 

   Note: I'm not referring to the specialized sealers explicitly called for by makers of various higher tech spray finishes.  These are necessary in the finishing schedule specified by the manufacturers. 

3. 
   bones | Jun 16, 2009 07:27pm | #11

   I'm finishing a cherry hutch with waterlox right now.  I'm using the satin finish over their sealer finish.  It's my first use of the product at the reccomendation of my brother.  I primarily used the sealer per the reccomendations of the manufacturer.  I'm sure some will say thats just a marketing ploy to get me to buy the sealer, but I did it and have been pleased with the results.  The sealer soaks in deep and seals great and evenly (as evenly as cherry will but I love the character).  I used a single coat of sealer scuffed and followed by three sprayed coats(stirred and strained not cut).  Some of the piece was easier to brush which I did will little issue (good china brush).   The cherry is fantastic and appears to be a great finish.  Time will tell, but my brother showed me a piece he did 20+ years ago and it's still stunning. 

   The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Renaldus Magnus