I am planning on fabricating all wood windows for my old house restoration and need some advice. Although I have access to a well stocked shop, I need to set up a shop at home to maximize my time. Gotta a planer, joiner, miter saw and table saw.
I need to set up a router table. Space is somewhat limited. Money is less of an issue. I will be using the set up to make the sash rails and stiles as well as the muntins for true divided lites.
Should I set up a router table on the extension wing of my table saw? The thought here is to save space and to utilize an Incra fence for both tools. Does this set up cut down on efficiency? Is a dedicated router table and fence more advisable?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Replies
Yes, set up the router on your tablesaw extension. This saves space and is more efficient. For window parts, a 3 or 31/4 hp heavy duty router is recommended, just be sure the hole will not interfere with the ts door opening or fence operation. It's what I use.
Thanks. I was thinking a PC 3 1/4 HP router .
Personally I find it more inefficient and problematic to have the router table in the saw. I think it's a personal thing and based on how you work. Pain in the neck to have to cut something and your router set-up is in the way. I've had operations that needed cross cutting and ripping in the middle of router set ups. It had nothing to do with poor planning. On the contrary the produre was a required part of the process.
OK, assuming the seperate router table is the way to go do you have any suggestions on which table, fence, lift etc.
Seems like a sliding table or jig would be necessary to handle the coping of the muntin on the end grain. I have looked at the Incra set ups and they appear pretty nice, but pricey. Again, money isn't the biggest issue but I do want to get my money's worth.
Also thought about a small shaper, but the ability to pull the router out of the table gives me added versatility.
Pino,
For the price of a well equipped router table, with a large router, you could get a 3/4 inch spindle shaper and you would have better cutters and more horsepower to create the profiles you need. For making just a couple of windows, buying a router table might be the way to go, but for multiple windows, a shaper will be worth the investment.
Don't forget that a shaper is a great tool for doing almost anything you might do on a router table. Most people, once they buy a shaper, find they almost always use it rather than their router table.
John W.
Edited 6/15/2004 5:01 pm ET by JohnW
I am looking at more than 30 windows over the course of a few years. If I go the shaper route, can I get by with a smaller model? Got any in mind?
Pino,
I have no experience with the smaller home shop machines that are currently on the market. I think that a 1 1/2 to 2 HP machine with a 3/4 inch shaft would be adequate for a one window at a time, no rush, job but other people might be able to tell you more from their direct experience. Of course, a larger machine would be nice, but it probably isn't a neccessity.
I'd suggest that you post a new question asking about shapers and cutters for window making.
John W.
Will do. I want to do a little research first to acquaint myself with the various makers and models. I have used a Delta shaper twice, but beyond that I have no knowledge of them.
I am sure I'll be back in a few weeks with detailed shaper questions.
A simple laminated surface and a piece of wood clamped as a fence would be a basic table. You can make a sled to prevent splintering. You can do the same things as the guy with the $1,000 router table for a fraction of the cost. The real key is the operator not the fancy gadgets.
Pino...
your basement shop canna be any smaller than my tiny shop; a dedicated router table's definately the way to go..I built Norms router table...added castors to it to raise it up a little more. It has tons of tool and router bit storage, the top is solid and at a real comfortable working height. About the only thing I'd change is the fence; I've had my eye on Pat Warner's fence design for some time now... as soon as I get some free time...As for jigs.. there's a couple of video clips on the FWW pages here where Pat demonstrates a couple of good shop made jigs to make working with small components safer...well worth checking out....Mike Wallace
Stay safe....Have fun
My father-in-law just suggested the same thing at dinner tonight. I will check on the jigs as soon as I get time. Thanks.
I am have been working with the same sort of project for a while now and would advise a seperate router table. The reason? You will be going back and forth between your saws and the router time after time to get this job done. A "do all" tool is Ok for a hobbist but if you are setting up for limited production run (which you are) you will make better time with dedicated tools. An example: You are going to do a window frame and you cut the material to make the rails and stiles on your saw...Ok, now you start routing the rails and then "DOINK" you accidently run a piece in backwards so it is ruined. Next step is to go back to the saw to re-make that piece and then go back to the router, which has to be completely reset-up because you had to dismantle in order to use the saw. Will you ever get it set-up again like it was? Maybe and maybe not. See what I mean? Set-up time for a job like this is considerable.
In fact, you might want to consider 2 router tables to make the best use of your time and eliminate much of the set-up time. You could use a dedicated one for the cross-grain cut that wouldn't need to be as sophisticated as the other one (in other words it could be a cheap POS).
I concur with everybody else that says a router set-up in your TX outfeed table is a PIA. It's one of those things that seems good in theory, but turns out to be bad in practice.
If you have the funds, a small shaper would make your window-building life a lot easier. Then if you don't have any particular use for it after the window project, you could probably sell it for close to your original investment.
If making all the parts with a router makes the most sense to you, I would say rick3ddd is exactly right: a slab of melamine with a clamp-on fence (made from a straight piece of hardwood). In fact I would encourage you to get a 2' X 4' sheet of melamine from a home center, and set up a router on each end. You could suspend this arrangement over a couple of sawhorses when you're working on the windows, and just set it aside when you're not.
If you are looking for a reason to buy one of those wonderful fence systems from Jointech or Incra, go ahead. But for windows, the above will work just as well.
Thanks. I am debating now between the make-it-yourself router table and jigs or buying a shaper. Money isn't really a big deal, however there is no need to p!ss it away on a shaper if the router table set will do.
My biggest concern is repeatability and accuracy. I'll probably need to make a few windows start to finish, then start all over again on another batch. The less time put into trial and error the better.
I think thats why the Incra caught my eye. The shop I play around in has a Delta shaper and a router table with a nice lift and Incra fence system.. Unfortumately, this guys shop is 20 minutes away and I don't always have access that fits my schedule as a self employed homewowner / renovator.
As for the shaper idea, what is the advantage over a router table? The one thing I noticed was quieter operation and what seemed like a smoother cut, but that was working on some bigger door panels in hard wood.. I am going to make these windows out of reclaimed VG Doug fir, so I am not sure if the power of the shaper is any advantage.
Thanks again for the valuable input.
Since you're working with vg doug fir, my experience has been that this wood will tear out easily if you take too much of a bite at one pass. So a shaper, assuming you have the room, would be a better setup because of its capacity to handle large cuts smoothly.
Thanks to you all for your input. I think I will be giong the shaper route. Just need to investigate different models now.
I have a PC 3 1/4 horse in a Master Lift in the SIDE table of my 52 inch unisaw. I have a helper and we frequently run the saw and the router at the same time. I would have to cut something like 30 inches wide before the router fence is in the way. I don't know if if you have a side board or not. Before I had a router table in the left wing of a contractors saw and seldom had a problem.
I agree the a shaper is a better tool for making windows. It will pay for itself in short order. For the price of a good lift, router, table, and fence (if you don't make one) you can by a decient shaper.
Mike
I have been pricing shapers vs. a table / lift / fence set up and the shaper is looking more and more attractive. I am going to take a look a Bridgewood BW-310SL that a fellow video guy (and dedicated woodworker) has in his home shop. Seems a little more powerful than I need but he says it has a great fence and table and is a couple of hundred less than the Delta I saw.
Fortumately I have a month or so to make a decision.
I've heard the Grizzly 3 horse is good as well.
Mikeplease excuse my spelling.
http://www.woodhaven.com has some nice simple router table accessories and ideas.
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