I’ve wanted to make my website more active for a couple or three years and I’ve finally bitten the bullet and I’m giving it a go. Five weeks ago what I knew about HTML and building websites could be written in large letters on one side of a cigarette paper. Now I know enough about the job to write about HTML and the like in regular text on both sides of two cigarette papers.
I’m using a free downloadable programme called Kompozer, that I renamed Komposter because all I made for the first couple of weeks was pure, unadulterated sh*te, but I think I’m making a bit of progress. I should be getting a version of Dreamweaver soon, so I’ll perhaps have better control then of the look of the pages, and the font size, colour, etc in the not too distant future. However, I already know I’ll be retaining the grey background and the horizontal tables at top and bottom with the navigation buttons. I might change the logo at the top of the main gallery pages, but I don’t suppose I’ll change too much, but of course I might change my mind as I get more competent at the website malarkey.
So before I get too far into all this reworking and loading up a lot more content and information I’d appreciate some feedback. For example, I have main galleries with a bit of descriptive text and a fairly small image (<50 kb or less) of a piece of furniture. Clicking on an image usually leads to another page with larger images, 100 kb or less each, and perhaps a bit more text.
So what I’m after is feedback about such things as download times for those of you still using pedal powered internet connections and other non-broadband connections. Is the new layout non-intuitive and difficult, or is it quite easy? What about those of you using Firefox and other browsers– how does it look? Are there any dead links or blanks where pictures should be?
Anyway, I’ll leave it to you to tear it to pieces, or heap praise as you see fit. Please click on the link visible at the bottom of all my messages to this forum to visit the site. Thanks in advance for any comments. Slainte.
Edited 11/3/2008 5:08 pm by SgianDubh (Sgian_Dubh)
Replies
Richard,
Looked at the web site and it came up quickly. I'm an architect who likes to make sawdust on weekends and have only done a 1 page web site. So you know more than I do.
When I go to look at a specific piece of furniture after clicking on tables and chairs where the larger pictures are it would be helpful if there were very small pictures (icons) so that I could see that there were several of that piece and if you could click on the icon it would take you directly to that picture. Like the real estate web sites when showing a house.
ASK
Thanks ASK. I've not come across that feature, but I can see how it could be useful. It's worth investigating. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Ahhhh, Richard, the joys of web design. A couple of comments from moi for starters, nothing earthshattering. General guiding thought: Your web site is a representation of you as a woodworker, and will work best in a commercial sense if it is of the same quality (top-notch!). Understated elegance would work.
First of all, my DSL has been puttin' along not much faster than pedal-power, and your pictures are downloading just fine. People who still have dial-up know they have to be a little patient, LOL.
That grey background? Looks blue on my monitor -- somewhat lighter than the light blue that's on this Knots page. Not a flattering or attractive color for a woodworker's page, IMHO.
I'm sure you're still working on the nitty-gritties of spacing an such, but I'd suggest when you get to it you try some different things with the spacing between lines, especially on the category pages. I don't understand the conceptual stuff about spacing, but I knows there's a method to the madness of a page designer, and I "feel" something awkward about those pages, there's a lack of focus-areas in the text I guess.
There are two books that might help you out in your effort, you more than me as you are so much more artistic in your nature. They are [UK Amazon links] The The Non-Designer's Design Book by Robin Williams and The Non-Designer's Web Book by Robin Williams and John Tollett. These are not huge tomes, they are concise and present the main design principles [Proximity, Alignment, Repetition and Contrast], then illustrate them so you can see why some approaches work and others don't.
The web book continues along these lines, but gets more detailed, gets into navigation, shows you how to recognize good and bad design in a trip on the WWW, some page-loading speeding-up tips.
If you were in the States I'd just send you my copies, but by the time they got to you in the UK, you'd be done designing!
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/3/2008 6:24 pm by forestgirl
I can't explain the blue background fg. It's meant to be a light grey. I'm pretty sure I selected a shade from the standard and limited colours said to be best for web use. I'll check that later.
I'm aware that I don't seem to have full control of the text size, spacing etc. The 'boil in the bag' nature of this programme I'm using seems to have the effect that it does its do its own thing. On the other hand it may be that because much of the text is imported from Word documents that that is affecting how Komposter (sic) handles it. I'm also aware that importing text from Word adds lots of erroneous HTML formatting that I can't clean up with Komposer; when I do get Dreamweaver, then that programme does clean up the formatting. It may also be a consequence of my inexperience and I'll be able to tidy things up with practice.
I am lucky. I work at an Art and Design college, and there are plenty of people I can turn to that are very good at using Website design programmes such as Dreamweaver. I think with a bit of persistence and practice I'll eventually get the look I'm after, but I appreciate the links to the books you mentioned. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
"I am lucky. I work at an Art and Design college, and there are plenty of people I can turn to...." Yes, you are lucky! I had one fired-up techno-geek who was more promise than results. Talented, but not focused. Didn't work out too well!
Looking forward to the new site, whenever it arrives. Love to gawk at your work, LOL.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Well fg, and others in this thread that offered commentary and to those that sent helpful private emails off forum, I've been tinkering with the website since all the commentary. I've taken on board what was said and done a bit of rearranging of text and images, etc.
I came to the conclusion that whatever I did I would never really like the end result, especially if like me, others use a fairly wide screen monitor so each page gets very wide.
So I'm having a look at completely reworking the thing again and containing the text within the framework of a table I can set up and use in this Komposer web building tool I'm working with. The result I've got using the tool like this will do until I can get my hands on a more sophisticated website building tool, ie, Dreamweaver.
The very compressed JPEG image below is a screen capture of the sort of look I'm going to use for the main pages, ie, a plain background colour of some sort and a two column table with the text and images contained inside the right hand column.
In the meantime I'm going to leave what I've created in place because it does at least provide my up to date contacts and some examples of my work. Examples of my work are now a little limited because I'm not going to put everything I've done over the last 30 odd years into the format that is up and running now. That will have to wait until I've got the new format that I am going to use up and running as I want it.
I just wanted to get back and thank you all for all the useful and helpful commentary. I've worked out what appearance I want and I have a strategy in place to achieve it. Slainte.
View Image
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 11/6/2008 8:38 pm by SgianDubh
I like it!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Richard,
Like the format and colour very much. What does the Home page look like?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
The JPEG I put up and you looked at is pretty much how I want the home page to look like Bob.
The other main gallery pages will follow a similar format or pattern, eg, the Tables and Chairs page, the Cabinets, Desks and Boxes page, etc. What I call my Detail pages, pages you go to by clicking on a link in any main gallery page will have a variation of that template, but they will be similar.
I'm going to make the table-- the bit with a grey background, about 850 pixels wide with the left column 110-130 pixels and the right column 720- 740 pixels wide.
Almost all large images I create are 600 pixels on the longest edge, and between 50 and 100 kb, so there is enough room either side in the right hand column for a landscape picture. It is very rare that I size JPEGs greater than 600 pixels on the long edge, but that right column can just accomodate a landscape image 700+ pixels wide. Images used in the main gallery pages are never more than 350 pixels on the longest edge, and always less than 50 kb, usually 30- 45 kb, so they download fairly quickly.
That's about it. I just need to find time to do all the tinkering. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard
I've read this thread with great interest because I recently have decided to personally get with the 20th century (I don't want to catch up too quickly!) and actually get a website going. I never felt the need, as I always had plenty of work, but more and more folks open up conversations with "what is the name of your website?", and I'm growing tired of burning cd copies of my work to pass out.
My question to you, if you don't mind answering, is.... Now that you've gotten this far into it, do you feel that the time and effort put into the learning curve of understanding the website building software, as well as the considerable amount of time that you must have been spending tweaking things to get the look you are after, was worth the money you saved by doing it yourself? I have gathered from some of your comments in this thread that you were quite unsatisfied with the website building characters that you were working with in the past. My biggest concern is my lack of knowledge to even know whether or not I'd be able to find a competent individual to build a website the way I'd want it. I probably wouldn't know until it was too late to change without starting from scratch.
I've been teetering on the fence between paying someone to build one, or going through the process as you have. Your thoughts and recommendations, as well as a rough estimate on how much time you've spent working on your site, would be greatly appreciated by me, and perhaps others as well.
Cheers,
Jeff
PS As you can tell, I've mastered the art of the "run on sentence!!"
Edited 11/7/2008 10:01 am ET by JeffHeath
Jeff, building and managing my own website is something I've wanted to do since ever I first had the idea of putting a website out there. That goes back to the late 1990s. I have always had a very clear vision of what sort of appearance I wanted the web pages to have. I don't yet have the ability to get it exactly as I want it, but I'm getting closer as I practice.
I would strongly consider the advice Hilton offered me here http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=44006.7 earlier in this thread as a possibility. With a website set up as you want it, by a website builder, and with editable pages you can add and remove content to suit. WillGeorge also posted a link in this thread to other website building tools that are worth a look at. I just don't seem to have been able to persuade the professionals I've engaged to provide exactly what I want; or perhaps I've been too willing to accept the website builders given reasons for why what I wanted wasn't possible or too difficult to do. Perhaps I just wasn't paying enough money for their services?
I am a professional furniture maker with oodles of experience and knowledge about the subject-- I know that might seem like bragging, but it happens to be true. So, for me, I like to do other things at nights and weekends, such as photography, being involved in rugby and drinking too much beer which is part of being a rugby nut; I also like tinkering with ICT, eg, messing about with Adobe PhotoShop, using Word, using accountancy programmes, setting up formulae in Excel, drawing with AutoCAD, writing articles and academic texts on woodworking subjects using programmes suited to image rich documents, etc. Taking on the challenge of learning how to build a website is, to me, much the same as an amateur woodworker taking on the challenge of learning how to master an advanced furniture making technique.
I guess I've invested about 50 hours of my time learning how to create my own website, wonky and amateurish as it may in the eyes of an experienced web site building jockey. But I've enjoyed the challenge. I knew absolutely nothing about how to tackle the job. But I downloaded a free website building programme and just started bashing away with no more instruction than what came with the Komposer programme I am using.
On the other hand I'm a good photographer now, although some images of my work from many years ago aren't up to much, but I'm also pretty nifty with Adobe PhotoShop and can tart up some of my old poor images. This means that this side of website content and presentation isn't much of a problem for me, but if you are not good at this side of the job it is yet another set of challenges to master.
So, in the end, after all this windbaggery on my part, has the learning curve and the journey been worth it? For me the answer is yes, even though I haven't yet arrived at the destination I set myself. I don't think I can answer your question about if it's worth your while to embark on the same journey. I think you have to weigh up all the priorities in your life and work and make the decision for yourself. It is certainly the case that 95% of potential customers nowadays use websites as an early port of call to learn about a furniture designer and maker, and hosts of other business types. A good website that is easy to maintain and update is a very definite positive in your favour in today's market.
Also, bear in mind I no longer run a full time furniture making business. I earn most of my money by teaching others how to do the job. Nowadays I only make furniture for customers when I feel like it, and when they are willing to pay me whatever I ask for my knowledge and skill. I don't haggle, and I don't chase work. I do also make furniture for fun and to go into exhibitions and the like, but it's no longer absolutely pressing that I get a job at whatever low price I might be offered-- I can walk away from all the jobs I don't like the look of. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard
Thanks for taking the time to be so thorough with your response. I wouldn't call it 'windbaggery' at all. What follows certainly will, though....
I have to decide if I want to take the time to properly learn how to be creative enough with the software to get the professional looking results that I would want portrayed on my website. I don't want it to look as if I did it myself, if you know what I mean.
For me, woodworking is not my primary source of income, as I have another company in the concrete industry. Woodworking is, however, a valuable source of income for me, as I have 2 young offspring of mine away at college to the tune of about $45K a year for the next four years. It's my 2nd job, but also my favorite. As you stated for yourself, I too am the non-negotiable type when it comes to the money. I don't chase small jobs, as they just don't pay, and I refuse to work for morons, at any price. I guess that we probably have that in common. I have learned over the years that no commission, however large, is worth the migraine headache of dealing with a complete moron of a customer. I've always stated that losing one of them is quite alot like losing cancer.
I have never taken the time to develop the skills with the computer as you have, and that is probably my biggest obstacle in starting this escapade myself. I don't want to get 75 or 100 hours into the mission only to find that I need to hire someone if I want the results I'm looking for. I have, however, discovered that when I have taken the time to learn a certain application with this computer, that it really hasn't been difficult for me. I guess 4 years of engineering classes at least taught me the ability to learn.
I look forward to seeing your website evolve, as it will clearly show the capabilities of this type of website building software that you are utilizing. I have liked most of what I have seen on your site so far, and look forward to your feelings of accomplishment in terms of how close you feel you came to your desired goals of what the new website should look like.
Thanks for taking the time, and I hope you don't mind future discussions on this matter. I'll be eager to learn what I can.
Jeff
Jeff, if -- down the road -- you do end up paying someone to build a site for you, one thing to watch for is that you don't get some monstrosity that's bloated with all kinds of wizz-bang bells and whistles that are more for the developer's ego than a benefit to your web site. That is a common complaint from people who pay to have the job done for them.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie
That's exactly what I wish to avoid. I began the process of building a website for my mudjacking/concrete business several years back. The guy I hired, (who came highly recommended, btw) wouldn't or couldn't follow my direction, kept argueing with me that I should just listen to him, and do everything his way, blah blah blah.....I ended up firing his dumb a$$ $1000.00 into the mission with nothing but a domain for 100 years and a half finished, rediculously confusing website.
I don't need or want ultra fancy, and I think that Richard feels the same way. A good site needs to be easy to navigate through, and be pleasing to the eye, without confusing the customer. It's just to easy to click the 'exit' X with the mouse, and you rarely get a second chance to try and make an impression.
After my first experience, I share Richard's sentiments regarding web designer's. It's my way, or the highway, so to speak.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Just one thing; make the most of the first page your potential client will see. I believe this is THE most important thing.
Perhaps the second is content. Your product will sell itself if the WEBsite has the right content.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Richard,
I breezed through your site happily without getting side tracked or feeling that something was getting up my nose. Possibly you should diversify operations a bit and churn out web sites for aspiring woodworms.(;)
But what of a BLOG?? To blog or not to blog? I am under the impression that this is the latest most fashionable tool and everybody must do one, but somehow I cannot find the urge to get mine going.Philip Marcou
"But what of a BLOG?? To blog or not to blog? I am under the impression that this is the latest most fashionable tool and everybody must do one, ...
... but somehow I cannot find the urge to get mine going."
Nor can I philip. Getting a revamped website up and running is enough for me for the foreseeable short term.
Meantime I'm redoing the website completely as I indicated earlier in this thread, using a table to restrict the width of content. There is a JPEG example of the sort of look I'm going for in one of my earlier posts.
I do however appreciate your kind words regarding lack of 'getting up nose' attributes. Maybe I should follow up on your idea about churning out websites ... hmmm? Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Not being in the category of persons you hope to attract, I have found in your links so much of interest that your page is now in my favourites. Ok, I use broadband, but the speed of access is excellent and the variety welcome.
I run kernel in RAM which does speed things up a bit.
That is nice of you to say that mufti. I've completed reworking some of the pages in the style and format I think I've settled on using. I got a fairly simple one complete that I've loaded on to the server. Have a look at A Lesson in Sharpening and see if you prefer this new format to the earlier iteration. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard
As stated, I have continued to follow this thread. For what it's worth, I think the improvements in your sharpening lesson's page are terrific. If it were me, I would run with that. I like the slightly darker grey background, as well.
Jeff
I looked at you pages and liked what I found. Everything worked.
I have a comment related to the font Book Antiqua. Old man with eyes that only like to see things that are far away. Book Antiqua always looks very fuzzy to me. Especially in a small size. A font like Verdana looks much clearer to me.
Just me.
WillG, it is always a bit of balancing act with fonts. It's hard to suit everybody. Arial is another font said to be easier to read, and in this case I am thinking of those with dyslexia. It is reckoned, I believe, the lack of serifs is the key. I am not fond of Arial or other fonts like it, but I use it in educational settings for student handouts and the like, but I use it elsewhere only in limited ways, eg, as captions to images included in texts I create
I'm afraid I won't be changing the font; I use Book Antiqua on all my business correspondence. If you are using a PC, have you tried clicking in a web page, holding down the Shift key and rolling the wheel mouse? That adjusts the font size. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Hi Richard,
I just skimmed through this thread and thought I'd offer a couple comments. I am a graphic designer and web developer who is just beginning to work with wood, and someday hopes to learn to build furniture as nice as yours. I had a couple thoughts about this topic of web development that I hope will be useful to you and some other people who have posted about their sites in the last few months. First, as with wood, there is a big difference between knowing what you want and achieving it with the tools at hand and the skills you have. I've been doing this for many years, and I get frustrated, or am forced to compromise the original design, because it simply isn't worth the trouble to figure out why a particular browser won't behave (yes, Explorer, I'm looking at you). It may not be realistic for most woodworkers to expect great results without a big time investment. It is probably worth paying someone to give you a site that is up to the standard of your furniture.Finding that person can be difficult, but your experience as a professional furniture maker is a good guide; the professions are at some level very similar. Your relationship with the designer should be much like you provide to your clients. By that I mean that the designer should listen to your requirements, ask for your preferences in terms of style and design, and be able to show you work that you like, or at least work that gives you confidence that he (or she) has the design and listening skills to get where you want to go. For your part, it helps the designer greatly to know what budget range you have in mind, and, at least approximately, what your goals are for the site.At my company, after meeting with a client and discussing their goals, we usually provide a fixed bid for the initial site plan and design phases, at the end of which the client has a complete outline of the site and its functional requirements, and some number of design concepts (generally 1-3), showing the site's home page and one or two representative sub-pages. We'll include one or two rounds of design critique and revisions in that price.Once the plan is approved, we can give a bid for the completion of the site, which includes programming, graphic processing, testing, etc. (Generally we can give a ballpark estimate for the entire site development before we begin, but unless the site is very simple, we cannot commit to a fixed number because there are too many unknowns that must be worked out in the planning stages.) For a site like yours, however, most companies should be able to give you fairly tight budget up front because it isn't that complex, and the likely have done something similar in the past that they can use for a reality check.Some red flags I can think of that might make you consider another developer are: they offer a price before discussing any details of what you want to do; they start talking about specific technical solutions before you tell them what the problems are; they don't have any existing work that you like (especially if all their work tends to look similar--variety is good); or they start pushing maintenance or hosting contracts right away (nothing wrong with that in general, but some companies use design as a loss-leader to generate long-term retainers and hence aren't committed to good design). Just as you do for your clients, they should be listening hard and asking lots of questions, If not, Run away! Run away!If you want to continue down the do-it-yourself path, I think Dreamweaver is a good way to go. It's a nice tool that lets you get under the hood and get all greasy if you want, but you don't have to. I would recommend a couple of things that can make your life easier if used properly. Dreamweaver has a template feature that lets you create, essentially, frameworks into which you can put your content, photos, etc., and make many duplicates of the same page type. This will be nice when, for example, you begin making exquisitely dovetailed birdhouses, and you want to add a "Birdhouses" link to all your navigation. Instead of doing it on all 63 pages of your site, you do it once to the template and all 63 pages are updated in 5 seconds. A conceptually similar feature, Library items, works on page fragments rather than whole pages.You may also consider formatting your pages using Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) rather than tables or other old-school tricks. It really is the wave of the future (if not the present) and gives you a lot of control and flexibility. The basic idea is to separate the presentation from the code. With CSS, the background HTML code can remain the same, while you adjust layout, colors, type, etc. with the CSS. These two sites offer examples: identical HTML, wildly different appearance. The latter offers free downloadable page and CSS templates that I've used for a number of sites:http://www.csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/063/063.css&page=0
http://contentwithstyle.co.uk/content/a-css-framework/Richard, you may not have noticed, but your site is using CSS styles, albeit in an inefficient way (span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial;"). Ideally those specs would be in a separate file instead of mixed with your HTML.This site has nice explanations of almost all of the CSS specs if you want to experiment:http://www.westciv.com/style_master/house/tutorials/index.htmlSorry about the length of this post, but I hope it helps y'all with getting nice websites to showcase the fine work you do!Ted
Ted, that was a wonderfully informative response with plenty of meat for me to consider.
I am going to stick with the DIY approach, just because I've got this far and I may as well go the whole hog. I am enjoying the journey, and I hope I'll like the end result. As it is I have set up three templates much as you described, each with a common background colour and a two column table: one each for Main Gallery pages, Detail pages, and Article pages.
There is an example of the 'house style' for want of a better description at the Lesson in Sharpening article found in the Articles main page. The programme I am currently using seems to have a bit of a problem with handling text-- it doesn't seem to properly adjust font sizes for example. Actually, the problem may be me rather than the programme. I haven't puzzled out yet what the difficulty is.
It is possible I guess that when I do get Dreamweaver I will be able to import whatever I've already created into that programme and then use its tools to undertake some of the tasks you describe. This seems to be what the person that has helped me does. He opens up one of my pages in Dreamweaver on his computer and corrects my formatting and HTML errors for me and then saves it back to my memory stick.
On a side note, I was, and am, vaguely aware that I am mucking about with these cascading style sheets you mention. Apart from knowing of them I appreciate that I don't really have a full grasp of what they are and how they work-- that'll be amateur website hack in me, ha, ha.
In a sense I am a little like all you amateur woodworkers out there. My advice to those of that ilk is that if you want a professional furniture design and make job, you should approach a professional like, er, well ... me. I'll do a professional job while you can get on and do what you are best at, eg, being a web designer, plumber, doctor, lawyer, or whatever.
The boot is on the other foot here: I am the amateur website designer, and like all you amateur furniture makers I guess I'm bloody minded enough to do it my way. I have been frustrated for years with my inability to create and maintain my own website, even though my website has had a place on the internet for perhaps nine or ten years. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard.. I realize times have changes.. Dreamweaver is now Adobe? Was Macromedia? Please excuse me spellins...
I found with my old Macromedia Dreamweaver. It really NEEDED Firefly also? Same now?
Yes WillG, Dreamweaver is an Adobe programme. I hope you got the Ctrl and mouse wheeling thing to help with font sizes. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
WillG, it is always a bit of balancing act with fonts. It's hard to suit everybody.
I agree! No hate here towards you.. I just stated what THIS old man sees! Not what others see! When younger I wrote ALOT of service manuals for printing equipment. We NEVER used Book Antiqua fonts to publish! NOT that we were right.
You mentioned Ariel font I love it! I CAN read it! You posted thinking of those with dyslexia.
Dyslexia is a learning disability that manifests primarily as a difficulty with written language, Dyslexia is a learning disability that manifests primarily as a difficulty with written language. I got my Masters in English having it.. I just realized I had it!
Just a comment.. No Hate here to you...
If you are using a PC, have you tried clicking in a web page, holding down the Shift key and rolling the wheel mouse?
I have and the screen goes blank? :>)
"I have and the screen goes blank? :>)"
Sorry WillG. I should have said left click in a web page, hold down the Control key and roll the mouse wheel. That adjusts the font size. My error and I apologise. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
My error and I apologise... NONE NEEDED Ever...!
WillG, you can set Internet Explorer (IE) to display only the fonts you want to see. I assume other browsers offer similar options.
In IE click on Tools, then Internet Options, then Accessibility. In that window choose your preferred font type and tell IE to ignore pre-set font styles embedded in web pages.
In my case all web pages come up with Book Antiqua as the displayed font; that is what I have set in the options panel I have just pointed you to. I hope that helps you get your favoured Verdana, or maybe it was Arial, to display. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 11/13/2008 3:31 am by SgianDubh
Richard - The site looks very nice. I see you've gone the route of publishing your prices. There's arguments for and against the practice, but I sometimes think period furniture makers in particular hurt themselves by putting "Price on Request" on their sites - it sets up the uninitiated for sticker shock, and potentially puts them in the position of having to spend a lot of time on the phone with customers that had no idea that custom furniture would cost that much, and decline to order anything (in other words, a waste of valuable time).
Regarding the way you've put your website together - who cares if the net savy don't like the HTML code? I'm strongly betting your customers could care less how the site is constructed in the background, so long as the pictures are clear and the navigation buttons work.
Regarding what page to put up first, I might suggest putting your most original and sought-after piece as your home page, and putting your biography as a secondary page, or lower down on the home page. Biographies are important constituents of one-man marketing efforts, in my opinion, but you might want someone casually browsing through a google images search to see your work come up as a pointer to a web page.
dk, I'll chew over your comments on the 'signature' piece appearing on the front page, moving the bibliography, and make a decision.
Talking of prices appearing on furniture makers websites, I've gone a bit further than just putting suggested prices next to some of the items I've displayed; I've just loaded information on the Services and Charges page, and that information might scare the pants off some potential clients, ha, ha. That page, like the whole of the website is a work in progress, so I may very well change the content.
I have quite a collection of images of my work to load. At the moment the main gallery pages are looking a bit light on content, but I'll get there slowly.
What I am really chuffed about is the fact that I can now actually do things with my website making it much more active with links to articles pulled off my hardrive, and news updates, etc.
My old website was static for a long time-- essentially dormant, and that was not good at all. Thanks for the comments. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Hello Richard,Great site. FWIW I agree with dk. Folks going to your web site are firstly interested in your products. Bio is nice but really secondary to selling the items.Cheers,Peter(a fan for many years)
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
"who cares if the net savy don't like the HTML code?"Well said, that man!Personally I look at this as the computing equivalent of carpentry vs joinery. It is a source of good natured joshing between my daughter and me. (She writes HTML code using notepad)When I write a program I like to think that I am striving for elegance, like Richard - and most of you - does with his furniture. When web-publishing stuff, the equivalent of roughly planed douglas fir held together with nails is good enough. Most web pages are ephemeral so why waste time polishing the internals?
Ephemeral? You are darned right, davcefai. I loaded up some new content to my site on Thursday night. After that I checked the site as best I could to see that everything worked as planned and went off to my bed.
Next day, Friday, that is yesterday, I thought I'd take a look at it on a different browser at a colleague's computer at work to see how it looks using Firefox. The website is inaccessible, won't load and all I get is a message saying there is a problem.
So, what is wrong I ask myself? I approached a net savvy colleague for advice. At this point I'd checked all my bills for the service were paid up to date, eg, hosting and domain name registration, which they are. The only conclusion we, actually he, could come to is that my web hosting service is experiencing a problem at their end. There is nothing at the web host's site saying they are having problems, but I have experienced intermittent difficulty getting on to their site over the last 24 hours. So I don't know what is wrong, but I do know I can't get on to my own website, darn it.
After all my hard work I guess no-one can see what I have put together anyway. I don't know how long the problem will last, nor what I can do to fix it. Maybe my website host has got technical problems; maybe their problems are far worse than that. I just don't know. And I suppose it is possible that the problem is really at my end, but if it is I don't know what that might be.
And philip, responding to something you said in another post, it is fine by me if this thread wanders off at a tangent. I don't own the thread and the diversions are sometimes as engaging, or more engaging than the original topic. It's mildly entertaining to see a bit of light verbal jousting between yourself and TTM, ha, ha. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 11/15/2008 5:19 am by SgianDubh
Richard,
It seems that your httpd.conf file is "warped".try http://67.205.23.33 and you will see the error message.The server is pingable so it seems that your last upload got corrupted.Your choices are:
1. Contact the webmaster
2. Assuming you use ftp to upload files, try uploading again.If you don't use ftp to upload you can try this:
In your browser addess bar type: ftp://67.205.23.33. Enter the password. You should then be able to examine the files but not edit them.If you use some other way to upload then you might be able to do so but I cannot help you there.Good Luck!
davcefai, many thanks for your pointers and suggestions.
I have done some quadruple checking, and it seems my domain name registration ran out at 0 am on November 14, 2008 without my knowing so. In a nutshell and as correctly as I can describe the circumstances, I paid for registration of my domain name to last until November 2009, but the company that holds the register entry went out of the domain registering business earlier this year. They did notify me of this and they suggested I transfer the registration to a company they recommended when required.
I didn't realise they probably really meant, "Do it now, " assuming I could move the registration when it ran out in November 2009. Anyway, I am now in the process of getting this problem corrected, I hope. With luck the website will be up and running again in a few days. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
With luck the website will be up and running again in a few days.
Hopefully, Richard, there is no other Richard Jones (or perhaps a Richard Furniture or RJ Furniture) who wants to take advantage of this opportunity to acquire a business name and website! Better act fast!!
:) :)
Regards from Perth
Derek
Derek, I didn't reply earlier because I wanted to see how events developed before I said anything. Anyway, it seems my domain name was not available for anyone else to use. The problem was that I had to transfer the domain name from one register to another. I still owned it, but whilst this transfer took place my website became 'unavailable'.
I think most of the problems are now resolved and the website is up and running again. One problem I still have is emails sent via the contact page don't seem to get through to me. I think I still need to do a bit of configuring on that front, but I'm not sure what I have to do.
Meanwhile, between when my website went down and now I haven't been idle. I did not suffer websitus creatus interruptus, and carried on adding content to pages, rearranging files, creating new pages, et al. I uploaded everything I've worked on over the last two weeks just an hour or two back.
I am pretty happy with the look of the thing, and if I do decide I don't like it in the future I guess I'll just do a whole new one, yet again. At least I can do that now, which is something I couldn't even contemplate eight or so weeks ago. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
Nice work... I have a question just out of curiosity. I have a strange mind, sorry.
. . Richard Jones (a.k.a. Sgian Dubh) . I believe a Sgian Dubh is a Scottish ceremonial knife? As found at the end of Double-twisted dovetail article. Do you use one to scribe you dovetails?
By the way, all of your photos can be downloaded with a right click and saved. I for one like that because I will, on occasion, download a nice woodworking design for reference. Not necessarily to copy but for an idea or whatever.
Are you sure you want that?
No WillG. I just use a bit of sharpened hacksaw blade stuck into an improvised wooden handle to transfer dovetail marks.
Regarding images on websites, the right click and save thing is, as far as I know, common to all images out there on the WWW. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
I'm not a website developer nor an accomplished furniture maker but imho your website is a job well done. I only know you through some of the articles you have written and Knots and Breaktime over the years and it seems your website is a reflection of you and your furniture and that is as it should be- direct, simple, honest. Easy to navigate and find what you're looking for. No need for razzle dazzle ("if you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bs")- your work speaks for itself and I believe after a visit to your website a potential client would have a feel for you and your work.
"The inherent vice of capitalism is the uneven division of blessings while the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal division of misery" Sir Winston Churchill
That is very kind of you to say so jc. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Right-click and save can be disabled if necessary using a little script. All you have to do is download the script and paste it into the home page.Naturally there are ways around this :-)If this is a feature you want let me know and I'll dig up the script. I'm sure it's on a hard disc somewhere here.
There is always a way around everything isn't there dave.
I didn't realise saving images could be 'blocked'. Now that I know they can, it would be nice to have the ability to include that feature, even if I decide not to use it. If you don't mind digging out the script and somehow getting it to me I would appreciate it. Thanks. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
"
44006.98 in reply to 44006.97
I didn't realise saving images could be 'blocked'. Now that I know they can, it would be nice to have the ability to include that feature, even if I decide not to use it. If you don't mind digging out the script and somehow getting it to me I would appreciate it."
Richard - You can indeed disable the "right-click" copying of image files from a website. However, realize that there is no work-around for someone simply displaying a web-site and screen-printing the result. Doing it this way, of course, limits the resulting image file to the ppi of the screen resolution, which may be lower than the jpg resolution of the displayed file, but there's no way to both display the image and prevent someone from making at least a poor copy of it.
Richard, when shopping online, my wife will often save pictures to compare side by side or to show to me at a later date. This saves her the time of navigating back and forth between various websites. By blocking that ability you may make it inconvinient for potential customers. On the other hand, reading through your website I found a reference to a design that was stolen from you using your pictures from your website. That must be extremely frustrating, and is probably a problem inherent to all creative types with that lucrative gift. I like your website, it is professional looking and easy to navigate. Your work speaks for itself. I dont think you should spend alot of time agonizing over fonts or colors, what matters is furniture design and the execution of it. The one thing I would change would be to make it more clear that the pictures are links. the wording is small and easily lost at the top of the page. Chris
Having designs stolen has interesting consequences, both good and bad. The same is true of protecting designs. In my business (not woodworking) we finally just started offering our stuff to be copied. It is amazing how often it turns into work for us. We may loose a lot of opportunities but we have to turn down work because our stuff gets out there so much more. We will often even send our procedures to organizations at no charge. Often they try to do it and turn around and hire us after getting a taste. I imagine that in woodworking one could offer their designs to other woodworkers as long as they cite the lineage. It would seem possible that a bunch of amateurs like me out there copying furniture and telling everyone where they got the design could be like an advertising campaign. What we find is that if we offer as much as we can (time and resource dependent) that we build loyalty from those who copy us. We often find that our competition copies us and improves what we do which in turn allows us to get better. Often they will help us get better because we helped them get better. Sometimes we get (and give) referrals because they know we are good and we know they are good. Protecting can allow one to keep a design for a time but it also have others look through a jaundiced eye. Protecting things makes it more difficult for others. For instance (as it was mentioned here) someone may shop by saving pictures and if they are not available to save then they may go elsewhere (a lot of woodworkers out there). Also if dimensions are not provided a customer may leave as they do not know if something would fit in a space they have in mind. It can be a usability issue. I am obviously not providing the other sides of the argument here. They seem to be better known. I am also not suggesting any way is better than another just presenting a different perspective.
Soak,It's a relief to see someone make a cogent argument for considering design-share rather than design-protectionism. Despite what every would-be monopolist claims, sharing design allows evolution (innovation) and a general increase in the interest shown in that design, as you intimate. It increases market share for everyone as it increases the market as a whole.Then there is the whole issue of "originality". It is no easy thing to define, except in a legalistic way, which sets more or less arbitrary distinctions between "new" and "done before".As a consumer I'm interested not in who owns the design but who makes the best expression of it. Often this is the originator of the design, of course, as they are most familiar with its nuances and potential. Lataxe, a copycat (like everyone else).
Personally it was also a recognition that most of what I know came from somewhere else (shoulders of giants and all that). Not sure how I could "pay" the great theorists that I used to come up with a novel process. I am also a bit self serving because as an amateur woodworker I love to try to copy good woodworkers. I am quite sure that seeing my work Sam Maloof would not be worried about me as competition :). I am a worse designer than woodworker. My designs may be ugly but at least they aren't functional.Shawn
Hey Soak, interesting idea. I can see where that could be beneficial. However, something that works in one industry could be a disaster in another. I'm not a professional woodworker either so I could'nt say how this would work for someone who is. It does'nt seem like a viable concept in this instance. I guess we will never know until someone trys it! Chris
Chris,People tell me it does not work in my industry and think I am an idiot. Perhaps I am - all I know is I am happier now that I do not worry about it. Like I said before it is not a suggestion - just an offering. I certainly do not begrudge another their right to try and protect their ideas and I certainly am not knowledgeable about woodworking beyond my long term addiction to it. Shawn
Clearly not idiotic if it is bringing you business. I dont know what business you are in, sounds like a commercial based business. I just think that is totally different from a one off furniture maker. If that is indeed your business situation. You shrug, I shrug? who knows. Chris
Interesting, soak is almost re-inventing the Creative Commons licence.
Dave,Please elabaorate on that CC concept you mentioned. If there is a good web page perhaps you might offer the pointer?Thanks in anticipationLataxe, a commoner.
Essentially the CC licence is an open source licence where the licensor makes the work freely available subject to certain conditions.In practice these usually boil down to to the licencee attributing the original work to the author and clearly indicating any changes.It started out as an attempt to apply software type open source and free licences to other areas such as music and writings. Note that it can be difficult to draw up such a licence without leaving loopholes.The official website is: http://creativecommons.org/There are a number of articles and explanations on Groklaw: http://www.groklaw.net.
Dave,
Thanks for those links. I wonder if the grok in groklaw is the concept from Robert Heinlein's SF novel "Stanger in a Strange Land".
Lataxe
Grok.Yes, it is used exactly in Heinlein's sense.Groklaw started out to follow the SCO vs IBM (and the Linux Community) litigation and is branching out into other legal areas.
I had been wondering about making links to additional information more obvious Chris. Your point is well taken and your comment convinced me to do just that.
I have started modifying pages. I've only modified one page so far, ie, the Cabinet Furniture page where I now include (More) next to the title of the piece. Clicking on either the picture or (More) takes the visitor to the same page.
I will gradually make changes along these lines on every page at each place it is needed. Thanks for the comments. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
When web-publishing stuff, the equivalent of roughly planed douglas fir held together with nails is good enough.
OK so I use stainless screws or Bronze if boat. I was offended! :>)...
Ah! And there you have it! Your boat obviously needs to last longer than it takes the nails to rust or work loose.Most web pages change frequently, so why waste time on perfecting them?
WillG, you can set Internet Explorer (IE) to display only the fonts you want to see. I assume other browsers offer similar options.
Yes. However, I have seen issues with line spacing and proportional fonts sometimes overlap on the same line. Destroys the look and layout of the page. I have not tried it with your pages.
By the way, I was not being critical of the font. Just mentioned what I see not what others see.
Girl,
You hit the nail on the head.
There are any number of whizz-bangers in web-builder land. They saw too many cartoons when young and also value style over substance. They are post-modernist and think that "their way" is as good as anyone else's, even if the "anyone else" is their customer with entirely different needs from a large number of whizzes and even more bangs.
Still, that leaves us having to do everything ourselves..... perhaps no bad thing in the final anaysis, even if the process is slow.
Of course, one may always go back to fundamentals and ask: why do I need a website? I find myself with no need of such a thing, personally; nor of a mobile phone; nor a suit; nor (long list). This leaves money for essential items such as chocolate, liquorice and planes from NZ.
Lataxe
"This leaves money for essential items such as chocolate, liquorice and planes from NZ." Hah, hah! You and I have just about the same priorities!!!
I'm probably going to do a web site for my horse-training/caring-for business, but it'll be a few months. Sounds like a good thing to do in the dead of winter.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Although not an IT guyI am fairly deep into the use and abuse of computers, both at work and as a hobby.I have some quite definite opinions on web sites and their design.Some people, like the OP are quite capable of designing a decent website and can probably do a better job for their purpose than a "professional" designer.On the other hand quite a lot of professionals should be shot for inflicting their screwed-up ideas on the client and the users of their websites. It's not really that different from woodwork. Some can, some can't, some will, some won't.If you want examples of overly complex websites visit those of Nvidia and Electronic Arts. At least the Nvidia one is usable. The Electronic Arts one is a nightmare. I had to visit the latter one to help out a friend's son with a game problem. It took half an hour + setting up a throwaway email account (to soak up the barrage of advertising emails) just to get to "Try to reinstall DirectX". Only the kiddies could possibly enjoy the nightmare of navigating through complex pages loaded with adverts and flash videos.The problem is that computers have been mystified, probably by those people who stand most to gain by this.Somebody like the OP needs to communicate what he does to potential customers. What is important is the _communication_ bit. The mechanics of writing the web-page are trivial. Essentially it is on the same level as word-processing or desktop publishing.If I had to do something like this I would prefer to use the budget to get consultancy from somebody skilled in presentation techniques rather than from a code monkey.I'm not saying that everybody should write their own web pages. I AM saying that a lot of people could do so effectively.
My view is that designing and constructing one's own website provides the type of control that is essential when you have a product that requires frequent updating.
The analogy from woodworking is that you would not send out your hand plane or chisel blades for sharpening.
My website is very basic. It was created in a rush - completed from scratch with just a little help from a pro in a couple of weeks. I won't bore you with the background, but I already had many articles on a shared website. Circumstances required that I move everything off this website. I had been planning to do so for several months, reading, experimenting, learning. Then the deadline speeded up .. and I found that the software I had did not do what I wanted very efficiently. That's where a pro came in. He guided me onto the right track, showed me how to link pages, and upload data. He also put me on to helpful free software. What I needed to be able to do was copy my articles, pictures and all, and convert it all into html for uploading. That is why I ended up with OpenOffice.
At the end of the day, you have to decide what you want from your website. I was not so fussed with the looks at the start - my priority was to get everything up and in a readable state. I have been slowly rebuilding the presentation, but there really is too little time in my world for a lot of that type of stuff - the website does not generate income, and never will. It is just a hobby. It is different for you - yours will lead to income being produced. However I think that you have as little time to spend on it as I. If I were you, I certainly would entertain getting in a pro to help - not to develop it for you, but to work alonside you and help you put into place what you envision the website should be. That may be all the input you require.
Regards from Perth
Derek
I agree with many of your comments Derek. I have however now created templates with the look I require for all the pages, eg, the Home page and main gallery pages. Then there are what I call Detail Pages that open from a link in a main gallery page, eg, from the Tables and Chairs page, or Cabinets, Desks and Boxes page. Lastly, there is an Articles template that opens from a link in the Articles and News main gallery page.
All these pages have essentially the same layout utilising a two column table set in a background colour. Main gallery pages are set in a yellow brown background, Detail pages use a red brown background, and the Articles pages use a chocolate brown background.
I am assuming I can get all the pages I want in the short term up and running the way I want them to over the next few weeks. I'll be working on the thing a bit at a time, but I don't think I've set myself an impossible task. After that the work I need to do should in theory be little more than tinkering piecemeal every now and again, or at least I hope that will be the case.
As ever, I appreciate the feedback. Maybe I can start doing a few tool reviews for my website, and become a sneering and biting critic of all the manufacturers that are nowadays held in such high regard, and then mel (the poster known as 9619) would like me better-- ha, ha--- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
"Maybe I can start doing a few tool reviews for my website, and become a sneering and biting critic of all the manufacturers that are nowadays held in such high regard, and then mel (the poster known as 9619) would like me better-- ha, ha--- ha, ha, ha." Slainte.
If you do... any chance of doing an in-depth review of what is the best brand.. type and size of concrete block to flatten water stones on? And don't just say a "flat one" as I could get that from just about anyone with common sense that has used them to flatten water stones.
I don't have water stones and don't plan on getting them but.. if I knew it would look good on my resume if I applied for a professional WW job which I won't. ha.. ha...
Sarge..
Edited 11/9/2008 12:48 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
IMO, the re-done navigation is a big improvement, and give the page a much "cleaner" look. Looks nice!
Many thanks dk. I am of course completely reworking every page; I hope it will be even neater and tidier when I get done. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
I tried it on IE and Google Chrome and it works well on both browsers. A couple of pet annoyances of mine with self made sites is noticeably absent (sites which insist on a fixed page width, and page titles all the same, which dont allow separate shortcuts to be saved without renaming). I'm on cable modem but it comes up just as fast with either browser and the pic sizes look pretty good.
If you build it he will come.
Thanks Douglas. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Hi Richard
I have had my website up since late March (Gad it feel so much longer). I started from scratch without any training at all (yes, I know it shows!).
I was put onto, and since used, Komposer (which I use for creating links to pages), FileZilla (which I use for uploading articles), and OpenOffice.org (which I use to convert Word documents - which I use for writing the articles - into HTML documents). Its all very basic, but free and it works OK, not great but OK. I'd like to jazz it up.
My images are 60kb, as reduced by JPEG Resampler. This is also free on the internet.
I am happy to swap notes, if you think that I can help.
Oh, I did not see a reference on your site to Rugby or Beer!
Regards from Perth
Derek
Edited 11/4/2008 6:58 am ET by derekcohen
We are using the same programme Derek- Komposer, but as my other responses indicate I think I'll soon be upgrading to Dreamweaver. I have a line on an educational copy at no cost to me because of my job and my employer- Art and Design educational institute.
I've got FileZilla- I haven't been able to get it hook up to my server yet. I'm doing something wrong, and I know the workmate that put me on to it will point me in the right direction in the next few days. In the short term uploading files is a bit of a drawn out and pernickety procedure.
Perhaps if I get Dreamweaver I won't need the OpenOffice programme to convert Word documents. I'll see.
I edit photographs with Adobe PhotoShop and I seem to manage with it okay-- I've been using it for about a year and I' think I've got the basics working pretty well for me. I do prefer to save images manually. All my images are sized the same; small ones are 350 pixels on the longest edge and 50kb or less. Larger images are almost always 600 pixels on the long edge and between about 65 and 95 kb.
I thought I'd better leave out the beer and rugby references. I appreciate the offer to exchange notes. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
There is a typo in the articles page--"Woodcentral" is mis-spelled in the description of the first article listed.
I'm impressed that you have taken on web design yourself. That is an area that I have avoided like the plague. And my site shows it.
Ray
I'll fix the Woocentral spelling Ray. Thanks for letting me know. It's one I missed. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard, I'm the industry of hosting website etc as well as trying to become a woodworker. Whilst I think you've done a great job given your limited experience and knowledge of website coding, I have one small suggestion for you.
Get it done professionally.
Seriously you wont regret it. Get someone who programs in a database of sorts and then get them to create you the basic structure that isn't changeable by you. This would include the layout, static logos, static graphics, perhaps even contact details if you're not about to move in a hurry.
The database is where you are then able to login via some sort of maintenance page and upload content that changes frequently. Such items would include pieces of furniture for sale with the appropriate place holder for an image as well as the relevant price. Your articles would be uploaded via the same interface.
I don't want to sound too critical but in all honesty your web site LOOKS like it's been designed by a layman.
You are selling beautiful tables for 5 thousand pounds so a mere 450 quid on a website is surely worth the expense? (about what it would cost here in South Africa).
Cheers
Hilton
Hi Hilton, I've tried the professional website building approach a couple of times, and I've always been left a bit dissatisfied. Maybe it's because I know how I want things to look and the couple of designers I've worked with wouldn't provide the appearance I wanted, or weren't willing to explain why the look I wanted couldn't be done. I suspect in each case that the appearance I wanted was achievable, but that the designers weren't willing to create it for the charge they'd estimated to do the job.
I agree that the appearance looks rather 'home-brewed' right now. However, I think that with the expertise readily to hand as it is where I work, and a bit of persistence and bloody-mindedness on my part I'll eventually develop a website I'm happy with.
I guess it's a bit like AutoCAD. I could send my sketches to a CAD jockey who'd create the drawings in half the time I can. The trouble is that it takes forever to get the errors fixed and everything tickety-boo because I have to fit into their schedule, not mine. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard - It looks good to me, and it loads fast over what can only be described as a dirt-slow DSL connection.
Some suggestions relating to page organization - delete the page identifiers (i.e. "Home Page" printed at the top of the home page). It wastes space, and user's won't have any trouble figuring out which page they're on because there are easy links at the top of each page.
Delete the duplication of the navigation buttons - leave them at the top, drop them from the bottom. It's a needless complication for you, and the vast majority of users are able to deal with scrolling to the top to chage pages.
I'd suggest moving the descriptions and price of each piece to a separate page - that is, the user clicks a particular image and it takes them to a larger image with a full description. Doing this will give the gallery pages a much cleaner look.
Good suggestions worth a think over dk, particularly moving descriptions and prices to what I call the 'Detail Pages'. It would help clean up the main gallery pages. Slainte. Richard Jones Furniture
Finally, in this batch of replies, thanks to all of you for your comments and suggestions. You've all in each of your ways given me plenty of commentary and things to think about. Your comments have added to the criticism and self reflection I'm going through. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard..
Dreamweaver is great. However making a Web Page is like designing furniture or carving. You either have the inbred skills or not!
Not trying to talk you into anything but.. I am sort of...
Unless you are on a MAC give Visual Studio 2008 Express a try.
As in the Visual Web Developer 2008. Nothing to lose!
NOT Dreamweaver (great product but sort of expensive) The Express stuff is free. Only works for 30 days? unless you register it. Register it as soon as soon you install. They ask a few questions and then no hassles from there on. Great stuff. Again not knocking Dreamweaver. I have a very old Dreamweaver so I have nothing against the product. Tune your skills with the Express freebie... And then get the Dreamweaver.
Just me...
By the way there is ALOT of help out on the Web for the Express stuff IF you can understand it.
EDIT: I forgot to attach the link :>(
http://www.microsoft.com/express/product/default.aspx
Edited 11/7/2008 6:02 am by WillGeorge
Thanks WillG for the link and the suggestion. I do however have a line on a free copy of Dreamweaver through my work. I think I'll persist with getting that because there is the side benefit of work colleagues that are skilled in its use. For the exchange of beer with a colleague who happens to be a fellow rugby nut I am able to get a great deal of help. Rugby nuts are very supportive of each other-- it comes from years of abusing each others bodies on the pitch, if you see what I mean, and settling scores afterwards in the bar with beer, jokes, and conviviality. As the cost benefit ratio is so good on the technical support front of the equation it is hard to resist the charms of Dreamweaver, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Richard,
I like it. Elegant, understated, no Flash and clean code.
I ran one of the pages through the W3C validator and it passed. This entitles you to use their "validated" logo.
The site is: http://validator.w3.org/
The browser used was Firefox 3.03 running under Debian Linux Unstable.
BTW I liked the furniture.
That is a useful link that I've saved to my favourites folder. Thanks for the feedback davcefai. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
I just took the time to read this entire thread. I know absolutely nothing about creating web-sites nor computers for that matter. You might even say I am computer challenged and rely on my wife who is a retired programmer to set ours up.. up-grade and maintain the system.
With that said.. I clicked on your web-site ( I do know we have fast access whatever that truly means ) and the back-ground is light grey. I clicked on all links and they came up pronto. I went from one link to another without encountering any problem and having to ask "her" for a helping hand as I often do.
Again... I can offer no suggestions as that is far out of my league but.. felt I would take a minute to say that if I have no problem navigating inside your web-site... the vast majority who are computer "saavy" shouldn't either. I know that is of no help as far as improving your site but.. hopefully that is a "tell" on how simple it is to move around once inside the door.
Good luck with your end goal and regards to you...
Sarge..
Edited 11/9/2008 9:31 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
Edited 11/9/2008 9:36 am ET by SARGEgrinder47
"I know that is of no help as far as improving your site but ... "
You don't know how wrong you are with that comment. If, as you say you are, your abilities to navigate around websites are so strictly limited, then reporting back that you had no problems with mine means I am on the right track. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Ditto that.. as that was the intent of commenting.
Sarge..
Here's a nice one that's also under construction:
http://www.davidlambfurniture.com/
Yes nice but a Flash project.
Not that I think Flash is bad.. Just apples to oranges...
Regarding Waywood - I'm noticing the furniture more than the Flash routines on the site....
But the presentation is clean, neat, and classy.
Edited 11/14/2008 6:06 am ET by TaunTonMacoute
Regarding Waywood - I'm noticing the furniture more than the Flash routines on the site....
But the presentation is clean, neat, and classy.
I was not knocking the web pages OR Flash. I thought a beautiful collection of web pages and work. I was thinking about comparing Dreamweaver to Flash. BOTH have their place but should not be compared. Just me..
Yes indeed, and you should note his workshop and those machines-observe the state of them-almost as beautiful as his furniture, Charles. See, the two things go hand in hand.Philip Marcou
Never let it be said that I don't like a neat, tidy shop. Not sure why you seem to have another impression.
Edited 11/14/2008 6:01 am ET by TaunTonMacoute
No no you got it wrong: I was drawing attention to the pristine condition of the obviously old but beautifully restored machinery.So the guy must be a "tinkerer or fettler"-characteristics which you show disdain for but I don't.
Anyway, I am sure he does a quick tidy up before taking photos in his shop. Philip Marcou
Edited 11/14/2008 1:48 pm by philip
Be careful not to pop something whilst stretching so hard.Do you see the difference between restoring tools and machinery with the goal of making something, and going on to do exactly that vs. perpetually fiddling and fettling and never really doing much beyond that?I certainly see a difference. A huge difference.
Edited 11/14/2008 2:27 pm ET by TaunTonMacoute
"Do you see the difference between restoring tools and machinery with the goal of making something, and going on to do exactly that vs. perpetually fiddling and fettling and never really doing much beyond that?"
Ofcourse I do-what a stupid question- but it is not for me to denigrate those who appear to be perpetually fiddling as you say-I'd rather assume or hope that they get a positive result.
No more on this: otherwise Richard will be distracted from his web site fettling.Philip Marcou
Let's don't hijack Richard's thread with this silly argument.
Here's another site that's very well done with excellent, clear professional photography and lots of tasty pieces. Once you click on a particular furnture type (say, chairs) then click on 'gallery' and it takes to very nice slides that are just the perfect size to load quickly but show the detail of the craftsmanship.
http://www.williamthomas-furniture.com/index.html
Thanks for those links TTM. I'll have a look at them. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Another very cool site; Lawd, they make beautiful stuff:
http://www.waywood.co.uk/
Dunno about you, but I'm getting a major inferiority complex...
Edited 11/11/2008 8:14 am ET by TaunTonMacoute
Yep TTM, they do. Barnaby who is a big part of Waywood is heavily involved in the Designer makers Organisation of the United Kingdom (DMOU) which I am a member of. I've had some exchanges with him, but never met him.
I'm not suffering from inferiority complex syndrome here, ha, ha. I know I'm good, and so do plenty of others. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Okey, dokey. I've done a complete revamp since the earlier iteration that was linked to in my original post of Nov 3.
So nine days later I've managed to go live with the completely new look, which is pretty much how I'd envisaged the website should look when I started on this new venture. For an amateur website bodger I'm happy. To professional website builders my efforts no doubt look a bit, well, homespun, but I think I am now in a position to do what I want, and when I want.
I imagine for example that my use of a table is frowned upon by more knowledgeable website builders-- they all seem to talk of Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) and the like. It is likely there is extraneous coding in the HTML, but what I've put together seems to work, and I haven't yet found any dead links, particularly between pages on my own website.
I am now in a position where I can add links, include news and update the content of pages, remove stuff, add articles and all sorts of bits, and I've even managed to work out how to use the tool FileZilla that seems to pretty efficiently upload all the files. The upload of everything I've created took about five to seven minutes through FileZilla.
There are already a few new bits for visitors to see. I created a new article tonight and shoved it on the site. I've also been adding a few links to the Links Page. The main gallery pages are still short of examples of my work. I'll gradually fill in the spaces over the coming weeks and months.
So, to finish, I just want to thank all those that proffered help, feedback and encouragement; and if you want to have a wee look at the latest version of my website just click on the link that appears at the bottom of all my messages here. Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Edited 11/13/2008 3:28 am by SgianDubh
Is it an accident that your handsome mug shows up before the graceful table loads? LOL! Sorry, Richard, I couldn't resist!
PS: remember to give it a "name" that shows up on the taskbar. It currently reads (in IE) "Index - Windows Internet Explorer"
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 11/12/2008 11:26 pm by forestgirl
I hadn't spotted that fg. I'll change it. and yes, the scary and offputting mugshot is intended to open up first, ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
I like it. Quick, clean, functional and easy on the eyes. Nice job.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Just read your post and was thinking. If you make a living at woodworking, consider this. You are getting into a complete new world of other professionals, like tax returns, wills, living wills, bricklayers, etc. Or you might think about when you made your first piece of furniture at age 12 and your mother told you it was just beautiful.....was it? I know you can do what you are trying to do, but will that have the biggest return? And I think you are doing this for business reasons, not entertainment.
Are you criticizing or complementing?
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
I suspect he was lazy and did not read all of the thread, particularly the part where Richard related his experiences in trying to get the "professionals" to carry out his vision.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
dg, there are a lot of posts for anyone to catch up on you have to admit. Oldtool just called it as he/she saw it, which I really don't mind. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
One misses a lot not keeping up/catching up with a thread. Much gets repeated needlessly. Guilty of it myself at times.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Peter, I was really trying to help! Maybe criticizing. I just went thru the process helping my daughter get her business improved with cards, advertizing, and web page. I do a lot of woodworking, not real good, but I do know how to make money and always try to help when I can. I just think woodworking can be tough and you need all the help you can get.
My apologies. I guess I came across a bit abrupt.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
I know where you are coming from Oldtool and your comments are fair. On the other hand I have enjoyed, and continue to enjoy the challenge of going through this exercise.
What I am happiest with is the ability to go in to my website and change content on a whim, or even a need. Last Thursday for example I was involved in a joint exhibition. It lasted only one night. This weekend past I was stewarding another show so I have had very little free time to do anything really. However, I took photographs of that Thursday night exhibition and the images and description of it were placed on my website on Saturday night. At the same time I took the opportunity to make changes to the main Exhibitions and Galleries page.
In the past it took weeks to make changes as I chased around trying to get my website jockey to do the job, and I was never really happy with whatever end results I got. The ability to quickly make changes without having to get someone else to do it is worth a great deal to me. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Thanks, and I know you have accomplished alot and proud of it. I was just trying to give it another angle.
I just want to add a postscript to this thread which is quietly fading away now and say thank you to everyone for all your comments, suggestions, and considered criticisms.
The feedback was of immense help to me and, although I am by no means any kind of 'professional' web jockey, I am very happy with what I have achieved thus far.
The content of the site continues to grow apace and I find it easier by the day to create what I want to create, and create it more efficiently each time I want to add new content. My one regret is that I kept such poor photographic records of my work during the first fifteen or twenty years of my career as a disfigurer of wood. There was a period during the 1980s during which I probably made in the region of two hundred pieces of furniture of one sort or another, and I took a photograph of perhaps ten of those pieces; and of those photographs I did take only a handful are perhaps good enough to use.
I do however still have a lot of stuff that I want to go through and add to the various pages and sub-pages, and I'll quietly potter along doing that when the mood takes me.
Now, if anyone needs a website knocking together for a mere £500 or £1000 or so, just send me some of your snaps and I'll get to work on it. Jings, it might even be a darned sight easier than whacking wood for a living, and more lucrative to boot, ha, ha-- ha, ha, ha.Slainte.
Richard Jones Furniture
Speaking of old tools, do you ever hear from Lee G? Kinda miss his take on things... By the way your web sight looks (and works) fine Jimmy
Every now and then we exchange an email or two. He doesn't have much time, what with the heavy duties of arranging his beach towel, sauntering off to the beach bar for another tall and pretentious drink with fruit and umbrella in it, and stressful visits to the sauna, etc, ha, ha.
Thanks for the comment about the website. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Sgain,
You've done a first class job and it's an enjoyable site to visit. I like the personal approach of the verbiage. However, for those of us that enjoy your contributions here, the home page verbiage could use a bit more polish. Normally it would be fine but we know your a better writer. The use of the word 'exhibit' and 'I' could be reduced once or twice and I think it would flow a bit better. With regard to pictures from the 80's, have you thought about contacting the various police departments where you lived then? They could have a treasure trove of photographs from all the evidence gathering in their files. :)
Yes BG, there is a bit of tinkering needed with phraseology. I'll modify the home page a bit. I have noticed typo's in other pages that I need to correct also.
Those images you mention that might be available at cop shops-- I couldn't use them as I really need pictures of furniture, not pictures of a plank holding a bit of card with numbers on it. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
This is just to let people know that my website and its content has grown quite a lot in the fifteen or sixteen days since I last posted a message in this thread. My ability to quickly create new content is growing apace.
I find it a real pleasure to spot that a page I loaded twenty minutes ago could use an extra image, or there is a typo needs some attention. In that circumstance I go back to my website building programme, make the changes and upload the new version. Uploads of a single page plus all the images that belong on it take just a minute or two.
So, basically, I have got what I wanted out of the learning curve needed to build and manage my website. It looks the way I want it and adding new content is as fast as I can manipulate whatever images I need to use and save them in a file, create the text and slam it into a web page template, check the links all work and upload it.
I had given up on trying to manage or update my website via paying someone that knew what they were doing, so it was dormant, and had been for nearly three years. It was all far too much work, inconvenient, and very slow to get anything done-- weeks even. And the professionals wouldn't create what I wanted through generally insisting on trying to ignore their customer's needs (that was me) and creating what they wanted. I guess that is really why I decided to stop paying people to do the job and took on the task of learning how to do it myself. I am of course still very naive about all the things that can be done on and with websites, but I don't really care about all the flim-flam, whiz, flash and fluff I see on so many as none of it is relevant to what I want in mine, or at least not at the moment. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Robert Heinlein would be proud of you!
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Ha, ha. I'm trying to work out if the approval of Heinlein is favourable... or unfavourable.
He was well rather known for his fiction after all, even if there often was science involved too. ha, ha. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
Favourable.
“A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.”
Robert Heinlein
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Don,
I yam going through that list to see what I have yet to learn to do. "Taking orders" and "dying gallantly" could be somewhat problematic...... Also, I can give orders but getting them obeyed is another bucket of whelks.
Now, there seem to be a few things absent from the list, such as "get a proper ladywife", "grok with a beast (cat or dawg for preference)" and another 397 items of near equal importance in this modern world.
Is "build a website" on the list one wonders? Perhaps, just next to where "write a well-researched book of meaning and substance" has sadly been scratched out and replaced with "watch a hollywood film or TV program and accept it in lieau of philosophy or history". :-(
Still, we have just left The Century of The Self. What will this one end up being? The Century of Being Up Oneself perhaps. :-)
Lataxe, who's own website will never appear.
PS No disrespect to Richard or others who build websites for sound business and educational reasons.
Ah. I see dg. I didn't realise that was a quotation fron Heinlein.
So, the implication is that it is good I learn to do all these different tasks, even if they are tasks not on his list. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
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