Hi guys and gals,
I’m a professional remodeler and usually only post in Breaktime but I had a question I thought was more appropriate in Knots.
I was recently given (free) a DeWalt/Black&Decker radial arm saw from my grandfather. Specifically it is a DeWalt Powershop model R1350 type A. It sat in the back of a barn for over 20 years and I would say it is in fair condition at best. The base is pretty rusty on the inside (which all three cells were a mouse nest and stinks like mouse urine) and there is a good amount of rust on the vertical adjustment cylinder. The motor doesn’t run…properly. Sometimes it just hums, sometimes it runs at low RPM and heats up, rarely it purrs along properly. I removed it and took it to a rewind shop for a $15 bench test. They said it could cost around $200 for a rebuild. The yolk and ways seems okay to me, not as smooth as my SCMS, but good….has a little play. When I put a blade in, I can see just a bit of wobble so may need bearings too (maybe another $50).
I am trying to start a cabinet shop and thought a RAS would be good for dados. I already have a cabinet saw and two SCMS’s. I searched online for this model saw and found next to nothing. It seems this may not be a coveted Dewalt RAS model.
Is it worth fixing up this saw? Is this saw rare…making it “my duty” to the woodworking community to restore it? or should I just scrap it out and find another RAS; I’ve seen many fine models on craigslist for under $250. Do I really even need a RAS in a cabinetshop?
Any advice is appreciated.
GK
Replies
GK -
Probably wouldn't be bad if you ONLY use it to cut dadoes, etc... As long as it is fixed angle, and you don't go jostling it around too much. In my experience they are difficult to set and keep set.
Personally, I would (and have...) use the SCM for crosscuts, and spend any time/money you are allocating to this RAS and purchase a high-quality dado stack for your TS. Much more accurate and repeatable with less effort.
It was hard for me not to use the 2 RAS's I inherited from my grandfather... I just don't care for them.
Regards, JM
mtnfreak, I think you are on track with what I was thinking. I have a good dado set...I'd likely get another. Like I said, I was thinking of dados (cross dados) maybe the occasional long cross cut as my miter saw only cuts up to 12" (17" if you lift up). This RAS can cross cut 18" although if I bought one I would like a minimum 24" capacity. I havn't seen too many of those for sale though, especially for under $250.gk
Dream,
Since you say you want to start a cabinet shop I advise you to park that saw-outside. If it is the one I am thinking of it is way too light for anything like accurate or repeatable work-and most definitely not good for dadoes. Those light weight jobs are the very ones that gave radial arm saws a bad name-they are plumb dangerous because they flex and can leap backwards-terrible things. Maybe you could convert it into something useful such as a disc sander.
I am very keen on radials-but only heavy duty ones. These are safe enough and can be very accurate.
Philip,I'm curious what part or parts you say I should be concerned about? Is the motor underpowered? I think it is 1-1/2 HP (it doesn't actually say the HP rating but it is 12 amps at 115 volt and 3200 RPM). The arm doesn't seem as beefy as some previous models. The yolk and post seem to be the same. The base is lighter, but heck I could fill the cells with sand or concrete to add mass and get rid of said urine smell. If I go hunting, I would like a DeWalt or better (sorry, I'll be the only craftsman in my shop). Do you have any suggestions of makes and models to look out for?thanks
gk
Dream, I think you should be concerned about all the things you mentioned, except for the smell of ratpiss-that can be fixed (;).Philip Marcou
I got a RAS B-RAND shining NEW Still in the boxola...Craftsman at an estate sale . All my machinist and engineer friends said .."Oh its not a Dewalt! Its not a cast iron saw " Its not any good ...but i got it for a great price ...I had never even thought of an RAS. After about 2 weeks to put together and setup in my limited garage shop and waiting for the RECALL blade guard and new table to be sent to me ..The orig table was pressboard ...the new table is MDF. It took that long to setup not cause it was that difficult ..i just took my time ...
I used it today for the first time. I was making a ramp for my new shed ...I needed some 60 deg cuts for the ramp to fit nicely on the front of my shed ... The Ras cut them perfectly ...my table saw could not make that cut ..and i liked the idea of pulling the blade thru the piece that is clamped down. As my table saw is a Bosch and supports around the saw are not great to hold a 48" piece to cut ...
I myself tho a new woodworker like the idea of having a Miter Saw, Table Saw and RAS....The RAS can do more than just cut Dados my friends ...end of story ...thanks ...but i did get lucky it dont smell like mouse urine ...good luck
Yes, it will do okay for light work, not too repeatable stuff, as long as you are careful to check any time you want to make an accurate cut. Make sure the fence is positioned so that no part of the blade projects beyond the front when the saw is to the rear....not worth sneaking a few inches extra cross cut capacity.Always return the saw to the rear...
I guess that if you never put a piece of yourself in the line of cut
the saw can never get you, but watch out for the leaps...Philip Marcou
Just a OLD guy that LOVED my old RAR.. My son-in-law now uses it for cutting up metal! Damn! Craftsman 1970 or there-abouts! Nothing ever done to 'fix' it.. OK so a few minor things BUT he takes care of the tools as I did..
As a OLD man I say GIVE up on the old things and get yourself an 'nice' table saw AND a NEW Compound (sliding) Miter Saw.. Brand of you choice (within money limits).
You can do all that work on the TS BUT that slider will make things much easier for some work!
Just me.. My advice is FREE so take it for what is is worth..
EDIT: And then again (if you have the room) two TS.. One for general work and one set up for dodos?
Edited 3/21/2008 6:22 am by WillGeorge
WillGeorge,You may be the only "Old guy" that would say to just get something New. 8-)I actually do have a nice table saw (delta unisaw and 52" unifence) and two new sliders (both Makita LS1013's) I even have a great bench saw (Bosch 4000) and a gamut of other new, quality tools. This includes nice routers...what I would usually use for cross dadoes. I have never made dadoes on a RAS before, just always seemed to me that they were engineered to do so. I would still make lengthwise dadoes (grooves) using my table saw.Thanks for the advice...the price was just right.gk
Will,I had a TS set up just for dodos, but it went extinct!;-) Bill
I have a RAS in my shop, and I use it almost as much as my TS. IMHO, TSs are for ripping, RASs are for cross cutting and work that is best done from the top of the board (like some dadoes.)
That said, so many people think RASs are not real tools, you can pick up used ones pretty cheaply -- probably for less than you will spend fixing up that DeWalt. If it has sentimental value, I'd consider it. Otherwise, junk it and spend the $$$ on one in better condition.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Mike,Well said, you seem to have a philosophy like my own. Although it was my grandfather's saw, it isn't like he was a great woodworker so I am not concerned about continuing his legacy like that. It is neither sentimental to him nor myself. If it isn't worth the effort then I might offer it back to him (in much nicer, cleaner, almost working condition as I have already made it) or sell it whole or for parts.What make and model RAS do you have and/or recommend for a cabinet shop as I have described? thanksgk
I have an old Craftsman from the '70s. One of the first power tools I ever bought. I keep thinkin' I'll replace it with a "good" one as soon as it gives me enough reason to, but so far, it never has. It just keeps plugging along. ;-)
As I said, I pretty much use it only for crosscutting. Almost never cut anything other than 90° - 90°, so once it's set up square (about a 3 minute job), it's golden for a long time.
I've put a lot of board feet through that saw, and I don't baby it. And it's been a decent tool for me. For a commercial cab shop though, I'd probably look for an old industrial duty saw.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I am in total agreement with Mike H., i.e. I would bet that we probably have the same saw. I also keep it set to 90° all the time, using jigs to set angles instead of moving the arm. It may seem like a compromise to its capabilities but I suspect that because it's lighter duty than an industrial strength RAS it helps to keep it accurate.
NEVER rip with it, that's what I have a TS for. I don't believe a RAS was meant for ripping in the first place. It shines at crosscutting dados and the added convenience of its inherent depth setting capability makes it easy to use, at least for me anyway.
A RAS rebel rouser and fan,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"I would bet that we probably have the same saw."
Probably pretty close, anyway:
View Image
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Hi Mike,
Not sure which is older but probably close. Bought mine in '72-73 timeframe. Ya I know, it's the second thing that goes with age. :>)
The arm on mine is rectangular and the On/Off switch is just up and to the left of the handle. Must admit that's the first one I've seen with the roundish arm.
Not the best pic but it's all I have with me right now:
View Image
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Yours looks a bit older.
No, I meant your SAW.
But that nice new planer and bandsaw in the background makes up for it.
Oh, and the gas can next to the furnace is a nice touch! ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike,
the gas can next to the furnace is a nice touch! ;-)
Yah, used to work great for super heating the woodshop when it's -20°F! But it's getting mighty expensive with the price of gas these days and the damn stuff doesn't last very long.
Also get a lot of burn marks on my wood too. Damn cheap gas!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"Yah, used to work great for super heating the woodshop when it's -20°F!"
Ahhh. I had assumed it was a ingenious method to convert your whole shop into a kiln to keep the woodpile at <3%MC.
;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I have that model and really like it. One suggestion-get a tee track from Rockler, and a cam while your there, and put it on top of the fence for a sliding stop block. I placed mine to the left.
Mike,
10-4, will do.
Still working on the DC for it and making progress. Right now I'm using a 6" handscrew that works but is finicky to set up. Also have a sticky backed measuring tape to add to the fence as well.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I also wired mine for 220 and it has more power for the thicker wood. If you can try it.
You must be reading my mind, what little there is of it!
I'll be running three 220 circuits into the woodshop this spring, if it ever warms up in this frost patch. One dedicated for the DC, one for the RAS & TS and a spare, just in case........
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Kidderville,FWIW, it would be more economical to run a single line (probably just 30-40 amp) to a sub-panel in the garage then divide off of that. You have to think of machines that may be running in tandem and those that run alone. Most 2-3 HP machines will be around 12Amp so a TS w/DC and RAS w/DC will be about 24 Amp. Don't forget to think of a compressor, if you don't have one now, you will want one in the future and that will be another 12-14 amps at 230 volt. Not that I don't think you knew that already but I just did that so it was on my mind.gk
gk,
Thanks man.
Since my woodshop is going to nearly double in size this spring and I have an unused 100 amp panel, mebbe it's time to think about rewiring everything. At present I never run two machines at the same time but that could change after the expansion.
My preference is to keep the DC completely separate from the other tools but elec-tricky isn't my strong suit.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I don't own a ts and do all of my ripping on a 1960 DeWalt 9" RAS (8" blade). I've never had a kickback and have ripped several thousand linear feet (just a hobbyist). No way would I do this on any RAS without a cast iron arm. Anything other than cast iron has to much flex. Just like a ts the blade MUST be and stay parallel to the fence. Just like a ts I use push sticks, common sense, and never get casual about what I'm doing. The kickback pawls are set for every rip, because someday some board will be glad to break my streak.<!----><!----><!---->
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I have my table saw and radial on 220, and everything else 110 which happens to be my age.
Hey Everyone,
Warms an old farts heart to see all you RAS fans in here touting the greatness of this Fine Woodworking tool. Many of the FWW luminaries owned one too.
Now, Lou, are ya listening!?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Mike, HOW DID YOU GET MY SAW. Ha, Ha. I got mine in the summer of 1962, just shortly after they painted them grey instead of brown. Wow, that is over forty six years ago. The motor is getting rather tired, Probably the starter, and the bearings might need replacing also. It has been recalled by Sears who would give $100 dollars for it because they cannot retrofit a safety guard over the blade. "Do not use it because it is dangerous." I elected to keep mine as it is, even thought it needs some work done on it. Like most, I use it for cross cutting and cross dadoing. It was supposedly designed for other jobs like ripping but I would shy away from ripping. I have a bad thumb to prove it is dangerous. I think it was the first model of RAS that Sears sold, unless that nine inch one preceded it. It sold for $240 but I waited till they went on sale for $180. I notice that curly motor cord on yours would make it a little newer.
Edited 3/24/2008 10:23 pm ET by Tinkerer3
Well, I know mine isn't as early as '62. As best as I can remember, I got it in the early to mid-'70s. I had ordered one earlier, but it was backordered and it took so long to be delivered that I cancelled the order and made my first TS by bolting a CS under a plywood table so I could get the job at hand done. (I clamped a 2X4 to the table for a fence.) Then the RAS was delivered anyway and I sent it back since my immediate need had been met. I bought this saw about a year later, IIRC.
The bearings howl when it's cold, and there's a bit of rust on the post from some long-term storage in an unheated house I was re-doing, but she still gets the job done.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Mike I have two of those, both where my father in laws when he owned the shop. Had one set up for dado the other for crosscut. I just use the cross cut for rough cutting cab parts, then finish them off with sliding table.
I had a nice Forrest RAs blade on mine for crosscuts. (I don't have a sliding table, so I find that the RAS is more accurate than trying to use a miter guage on the TS for cross cuts.) Recently, I failed to notice a drywall screw that had gotten into the kerf on the saw table and I busted about 30 of the 40 teeth off the blade. I have a pretty good blade on it now, but I need to replace that Forrest. Much nicer blade for this saw.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I use the Forest blade and it really smoothed my cuts. I never cut a piece of wood with drywall screws in it. LOL
Kidderville & Mike,Again, I agree about the 90 degree setting and the dado ability and no ripping on a RAS. Although in close examination, I have noticed that it could also be useful in the cutting of more acute angles than is possible on my SCMS's. I just finished a job that required numerous 60 degree angles requiring 30 degree miters on 1-1/4" panel molding. A RAS may have been useful for that. Alternativly, I just made an angled fence for my SCMS.But what about size/HP? There seems to be some concern about the stability of the scaled down arms and posts on the late model B&D/DeWalt RAS and I don't see much difference between the late model DeWalt arms and the Craftsman arms that you both have.So, what should I be looking for in a RAS? What is the minimum HP needed to effectivly push a stacked dado set? What is the optimal crosscut ability for cabinetmaking?thanks gkEDIT: I just noticed you posted a pic...that saw seems beefier than the other Craftsman saws I've been seeing for sale.
Edited 3/24/2008 10:02 am ET by Dreamcatcher
Without looking at the beastie, I'd guess my post is about 3" or 3-1/2" diameter heavy steel tubing. The arm is cast iron. I know the later models didn't have as much iron in the arm. It has absolutely no slop in any of the adjustments. The thing weighs a ton. It's 1-1/2 HP, IIRC. That's plenty of power for anything I've ever used it for, including a 13/16" dado head, which is what My Lovely Assistant is running through some white oak in that pic I posted.
I believe mine cuts 14" or so with the fence in the forward position where I usually keep it. A few inches more if it's in the back position. If I was buying new, er, used, I'd be looking for something in the 18 - 20" range if possible. Again, that's probably something like those old honkin' DeWalts you used to see in the lumber yards. You know, the ones that they'd fire up to cut your board in the morning, and they'd still be spinning down that afternoon when you went back to the yard to pick up something you forgot the first time. Possible problem: I don't know what blade sizes those big old machines take -- may be a bit of an issue if you swap blades a lot or if it would require a special size dado blade.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I ripped miles of stuff on my RAS.. I never had a broblem I could not duck away from!
Seriously.. I have ripped many, many 'sticks'.. Wide and others without a broblem.
Now those molding cutters they had for them are a BIT DIFFERENT problem!
Edited 3/25/2008 8:02 am by WillGeorge
I also ripped a lot of timber on my RAS. But that was before I got a TS. Now, I almost never rip on the RAS. One exception -- The RAS excells at putting a straight edge on rough stock with crooked edges. Just clamp a straight board near one edge of the stock and run it agains the front of the RAS's table as you rip the other edge perfectly straight. That's something you can't easily do on the TS without some sort of jig or fixture.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Edited 3/25/2008 8:24 am ET by MikeHennessy
Mike,I guess I don't understand how it is easier to joint an edge on a RAS than on a TS. I don't use a jig (unless you call a strip of plywood and a few brads a jig) and I joint on the TS all the time. Unless I am mistaken, it sounds like the same operation that you describe.In my opinion, the RAS is the most important piece of equipment in people's shop until they can afford a TS. It is the same way with owners of Shopsmiths. I actually have a Shopsmith (it was given to me by my other grandfather) and it is great...as a lathe. It has all the attatchments but they make no sense to use. Each tool has it's special purpose. Combo tools waste time in a pro-woodshop.As I said before, my RAS will only see 90 degrees (rarely the occasional <40 that my SCMS can't do) and never rip or make moldings. I imagine a setup like this: SCMS @45degrees, RAS @90degrees, SCMS @135degrees. My mentor has three SCMSs usually set up with one at 90, another flip-flops between 45&135 and the third, a smaller saw, setting right next to the workbench for adjusting any oddball cuts. It is quite amazing to watch him work.gk
Edited 3/25/2008 8:54 am ET by Dreamcatcher
" I don't use a jig (unless you call a strip of plywood and a few brads a jig) and I joint on the TS all the time."
This is much the same as the RAS method, the only difference being that you need to nail or screw the straight edge to the workpiece. With the RAS method, you can just clamp it, since the clamps and board ride outside the table. The only time the RAS method would be "better" is when you can't live with the brad/screw holes needed for the TS method.
As for using the miter saw, I'm with you 100%. I'll often have the TS set up to rip, the RAS set up to crosscut or dado, and the miter saw set up to crosscut/miter, depending on what the RAS is doing. Just move down the line without messing with saw settings.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
To All,A little update on my situation... I am abandoning my grandfather's 1350A RAS and am currently pursuing older, beefier saws. I made some calls to some old Craigslist postings and found that some deals I thought would be snatched up quickly, were in fact still availible. There are two models I am contemplating currently: a good condition 1954 DeWalt GW and a fair condition 1954/55 DeWalt MBF (I'm not exactly sure of the age and model of the second one). I will go tomorrow to check out the GW. Either one is cheaper than having my grandfather's saw rebuilt.I'll keep you all posted.gk
To All,I figured I would give you all some pictures of the two RAS options I'm contemplating right now. I would really appreciate some feedback concerning pros and cons of the two machines. So far as I can tell, option1 is set up for 220v power, but I'm not sure what HP that makes it...I'm guessing 3HP. The seller of option2 sent me a pick of the post tag that reads 115v and only 1/2HP. Option1 seller is asking $250 and option2 seller is asking $200. Both sellers claim their machines purr like kittens.I'm getting ready to go look at option1 this afternoon and cannot see option2 till later this evening. Any DeWalt fanatics out there that can chime in? Thanks all
Take $150.00 in cash and pick the one that seems least used. Make sure it slides smoothly with no side to side play. Be sure the motor start instantly and cut a piece of stock with it to be sure it doesn't bog down much. When you cut wood on a radial saw you use a pumping motion to go through the wood. Most folks just yank straight through which is very dangerous,
"No fool like an old fool"
Cut on the pull or push stroke?
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Both ways. 90% of the time the pull stroke with a gentle pumping action. The push stroke when the cutoff is going to be about an inch to three inches long. Seems like on short cutoffs the somehow get sucked into the fence slot and end up in the strangest places.
Measure twice and still f**k it up.
RAS ON A PUSH can be really dangerous.. OK, so I have done that a few times for one reason or another.. Does not make it right!
Will,
I think that has a lot to do with the rake of the teeth on the blade. The closer you get to 0° the blade has more of a tendency to push the stock against the fence as opposed to lifting it with a high rake angle.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"When you cut wood on a radial saw you use a pumping motion to go through the wood. Most folks just yank straight through which is very dangerous"
If you use a negative hook blade designed for RAS use, the forward force generated by the cutting action is greatly reduced. I almost always just aim for a well-controlled (keeping the arm pulling the saw a bit stiff), smooth, constant forward cutting motion. Worst that ever happened is the saw went a bit too fast and simply stalled. Operator hands should never be in the red zone just in case the saw does grab.
I always pull forward, never push back. Pushing back could cause the saw to pick up the front edge of the board and toss it. Tho' keeping the guard adjusted so it just clears the board minimizes this danger.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I was taught by the best. Pumping gently works, and the saw never jams. Have you ever cut the cheeks off a tenon and had the cutoffs fly? Pushing through stops this.
"Have you ever cut the cheeks off a tenon and had the cutoffs fly?"
Sure. That's the fun part. ;-)
Seriously, no big deal -- they just get tossed back into the junk chute.
Not saying your method is wrong, just that mine is different.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I don't know where my cutoffs go as I just hear a twang then a whizz, and never see them again.
By rights, a RAS is one item whereby you should be able to push a button and it would make the stroke based on the torque on its own. Wouldn't that be cool?
Buy the GW, it's much beefier. The motor should be a 12/6 amp 115/220 volt, and is an honest 1 hp. The other saw is a 1/2 hp MBC, which is O.K. for smaller work and thinner stock, but $250 is way about twice the price it should be in it's unrestored state. If you can get the GW for $200 - $250, you'll be very happy with it.
I ended up getting the GW for $200. Of course I would've liked to pay less; I am unfortunatly not endowed with great bartering skills. It is in very good shape though; although the slide scale is worn, it doesn't have a retracter, it is missing the blade guard, and the motor appears to have been replaced as it is green and the rest of the saw is blue (anyone know if that's a OEM color?) but it does run excellent, it still has the original stand and I like the option of being able to switch between 110 and 220 voltage. I didn't know it before but it actually just has a switch to change between voltage, it reads: "LOW--VOLTS--HIGH". I gotta get used to it though because it is in front of the power switch and I keep wanting to use the voltage switch to turn the saw on. It smaller than I imagined it being but is MUCH beefier than my grandfather's Black&Decker saw. Absolutly no play in the slide or the pivots. In fact, the miter pivot is stuck right now but I'm sure a little lube and some time will remedy that.The table is cheesey; just 3/4" plywood and I will be switching it out soon enough. I have read some posts in other forums about the "Mr. Sawdust" table using laminations and steel but I think I would prefer butcherblock. After seeing the new butcherblock tables you can get on Powermatic tablesaws I thought it would be cool to put one on my Unisaw and RAS.I am on the fence whether or not to spend the time to restore it like I have seen many others do. I'm not exceedingly busy right now so the time spiffing it up wouldn't be a problem and I figure if I did restore it, It may be easier to sell incase I run across any unbelievable deals on a larger model.Well, that about covers it. The advice and discussion here has been great and very helpful. I hope others can see these posts and think twice about the lasting value of radial arm saws in the modern woodshop. I know that I have always loved them. (BTW, I'm only 28 which is probably young compared to most RAS fans).gk
gk,
Great, welcome to the RAS club! Once you get to play with it a bit I'm sure you'll like it. Take the time to make sure everything is square in both planes and Bobs your uncle.
Uncle Lou will be smiling on ya,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Congrats on the GW!! If you don't already have it, do yourself a favor and get a copy of the Mr. Sawdust book -- it's a bargain at twice the price once you've read it. The information in it is indispensable for understanding safe operating techniques, and for discovering all the things most people don't even know are possible with the old DeWalts.
Looks like the only part of the guard that is missing is the anti-kickback device. New ones can be bought from wolfe machinery for a reasonable price.
On the table, you'll definately need a new one. I wouldn't do a butcher block unless accuracy isn't important to you. A table made from solid lumber is guaranteed to move on you, and won't stay flat. A table that will stay flat is critical for precision work on these machines. Besides, any RAS table should have a sacraficial top attached to it, and you wouldn't see the pretty table anyway.
Also be sure to check out the DeWalt RAS forum http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start for any rebuilding, setup, and operation questions you may have. Good luck, and enjoy!!
Tim
3/4" ply table is fine if it's good ply. Just make sure it's level and cover it up with a sacrificial 1/4" sheet of ply tacked at the corners. That'll get replaced regularly, but the 3/4" should last pretty much forever. Of course, if yours is cut up, I'd replace it.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
so true, most don't know this trick. Just be sure the front edge of your table is square to the blade. If its not, you can always line the board up with the blade then clamp down the fence at that angle.
GK,
"The base is pretty rusty on the inside . . . and stinks like mouse urine ... a good amount of rust on the vertical adjustment cylinder. The motor doesn't run...properly. Sometimes it just hums, sometimes it runs at low RPM and heats up, rarely it purrs along properly ... a rewind shop ... said it could cost around $200 for a rebuild. The yolk and ways ... has a little play. When I put a blade in, I can see just a bit of wobble so may need bearings too (maybe another $50).
I already have a cabinet saw and two SCMS's.
Is it worth fixing up this saw? "
NO!
Rich
"motor doesn't run properly" . Do not use an extension cord on these saws for max power. " motor hums instead of starting." On the motor is an aluminum plate about 3 x4 inches . Remove the plate and you should find a set of breaker points. Clean them with fine sandpaper and chemical contact cleaner. I have found this to be a problem with this saw. There is a lot of tuning up that you can do to this saw to get a lot of work out of it. However, extreme accruacy can be a problem. The play in the ways can be easily adjusted by adjusting the bearings that run on the track. Blade wobble could possibly be caused by a warped blade. Unless this saw has really been used hard and long, the bearings should be OK.
Edited 3/28/2008 4:30 pm ET by wdrite
Wdrite,I don't think you are talking about the R1350A RAS. The motor housing consists of only two halves. I already took it to a rewind shop and they told me that half of my stator is cooked. Also I did find the rear bearing to be a little loose. The blade was brand new.If you want the saw though, I'll make you a real good deal! I picked up a DeWalt GW that is in very good shape. What saws do you have?gk
Wdrite,Geez, I just ran out and checked the new GW. Yep, a 3x4 plate. I will have to make a note of your post incase of any trouble in the future. thanksgk
While you've probably gotten all of the advice you want, I'll add another comment or two. I've got a 30 yr old Crapsman RAS in my shop. I probably use it almost as much as the table saws -- but then I do more carpentry type projects than woodworking type projects. It can make wider crosscuts than my SCMS. The larger table also makes it possible, or much easier, to set up cuts that the slider can't do at all (well, guess I should add "safely").
On the other hand, if improperly setup, or worn, they can be dangerous. If there is any slop in the column or the mounting of the track to the column, don't use it at all until that is remedied -- or turn it into a boat anchor. A number of years ago, an employee at a local lumber yard amputated a significant portion of one arm when the saw head road up over the piece to be cut & power fed itself right across his arm.
bd,I am still going back and forth about what to do. I am still yet to make a cut on this machine. I thought about making a temporary table for it before taking the motor to the rebuild shop for bench testing. I ran out of time and am currently awaiting reply from the rebuilder as to what may be wrong and how much it would cost to fix. I am currently thinking that if it is a cheap fix (around $50 or so to replace the solenoid) then I may just have it done to get it working then sell it off and continue my hunt for a better model. People keep talking about the saftey of these saws. I am not so sure I understand how they are so much more dangerous than any other tool. I am for sure NOT afraid of this saw...alot of people seem to be though. I can't say I am afraid of any of the machines I've used. As long as you fully understand the operation and capabilities you are fine. If you are afraid you will get hurt. I have seen the RAS setups at many lumberyards...plenty for a greenhorn yard hand to get scared by and get hurt by.gk
This has been a great exchange of info and ideas about the RAS ...As before my own acquisition on my RAS ...I really was satisfied with my Miter and Table saws and occasional use of my hand held circular saw .It seems the woodworking establishment has all by itself decided the RAS was outdated and so unnecessary and unneeded in anyones home shops and why that happened i am not completely sure of lest it was just the prices of RAS became tooo High ...think of what a FESTOOL RAS would cost if they made one ....I love my RAS ...
But getting back to your Old vs New vs boat anchor predicament ..I always opt for the new when it costs more to get the old back to "like-new". We all have our own priorities. Thanks to all for great questions and great answers.
I did notice when using my RAS that I need to re-adjust the level of my saw to be out of level towards the column rather than towards the start-key...
thanks again !!!
I don't think they are any more dangerous than any other kind of similar tool -- at least on the basic cuts. Don't try ripping w/ one. I still have a hole in one of the cider blocks in my basement wall from a kickback while ripping. Some of the molding operations are dangerous in that with a molding head on them, the cutters are frequently more exposed than on a table saw. They used to make guards for the molding heads for some of the saws, but doubt that anyone markets any thing new along those lines these days.On the electric motor, it's seems from your description of the problem that the starting capacitors might be bad. You might not need it rewound, but that's just a wag, fer sure.
Dreamcatcher, I can't really imagine a commercial workshop without a radial arm saw of some kind. I suspect the main push concerning their 'lack' of safety comes from a group of woodworkers whose training, knowledge, familiarity and understanding of safe RAS use is a bit lacking.
In truth, I don't think I've ever worked in a workshop without a RAS. I admit that most of those saws have been of the large industrial kind, eg, Wadkin and old DeWalt and the like, with a 24" or 30" cross cut capacity. These machines can be set up to be quite accurate.
However, even a not very robust RAS is handy for rough cross cutting of solid wood prior to planing, and even for rough sizing of some man made board parts. These machines are sometimes a lot handier than using either a table saw, vertical cross-cut saw, hand held power saw or a sliding table saw for the same job. The sliding mitre or chop saws and the basic chop saws are also very useful, but usually the radial arm saw, even a small one has a greater capacity. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture
'lack' of safety comes from a group of woodworkers whose training, knowledge, familiarity and understanding of safe RAS use is a bit lacking.
I'd say that is a job for the owner or shop SUPER. To instruct with a good quich kick in the butt!
Will,"'lack' of safety comes from...."That is a well said statement and I totally agree with you although it really applies to all tools. Some people say you need to keep a fear/respect for the tools to be safe. I say you just need to be smarter than the tool, know it's traits, it's habits and it's flaws. Be able to know the tool's next move at any time. I can dismantle, repair, adjust, and reassemble every tool I own. I don't need schematics because I know exactly how they operate.Just so long as you have two working eyes and nine or ten fingers, you're doing pretty well in woodworking.gk
I have your saw in a 240v model and love it. It is great for cross cutting any 1x or 2x material to rough length; and I think it is one of the better tools I have to make basic tennons. It is quite safe, and unlike a TS will not kick back. Don't try ripping with it.
Regards,
Scooter
"I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow." WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Keep your eye out for a good used radial arm in the want ads and in auctions. Be patient and you can get one really reasonable. Most people are afraid of them, so you can get real bargains. I have used mine for years and would not be without one in my shop, however be aware that they are probably the most dangerous tool in any woodworking shop if one loses attention while using the tool. I use mine for crosscutting only and it is very accurate.
I have two radial arm saws in my shop along with with a nice collection of other tools. I use the older Craftsman with a dado blade and the older Dewalt is used for cross cuts. I use them daily and would not be without them even though many wood -workers feel differently. I think what you get comfortable using you will use much of the time. I don't think anyone can really tell you if the one you have is worth fixing unless they know its value to you.
I bought the dewalt in excellent condition for 700 dollars two years ago. It is a 1 1/2 hp with about 17 inches of cross cut. It is cast iron and with excellent bearings.
You may want to take a look at the new Delta radial arm saws. Hartville Hardware in Ohio sell a model for about 800 dollars that I see everywhere else for nearly 1200.
There is also a business that sells parts for the older Dewalts but I cannot remember the name. Try and internet search. If you want the ultimate look at the saws that the Original saw company sells that are really recreations of the older Dewalt patents.
Good luck
I was given an old Craftsman RAS and spent several weekends overhauling it. But I gotta tell ya, I've never been able to get it to cross cut a "glue line" for me. And it's settings have to be checked, rechecked and tweaked constantly. I subsequently bought a Hitachi sliding bevel saw which is much more accurate. And, Ironically, it's little 8 1/2" blade cuts 12" while the Craftsman's 10" blade cuts no more than 9". I still occasionally use the RAS for dadoes, though it can be scary.
I am wondering why cutting dadoes on your RAS is so scary to you ? I have not done that and yes you may say that is why i dont know how scary it is .....my RAS is fairly new ...and i think i may try some
rabbets today..as i need to build a box as a back port for my new Dust Collector ...One thing is for certain ...one can never have enuff tools ..Thanks to all for this great RAS forum ...
Mlyle in Bonney Lake
Rabbets and dadoes can be scary on a smallish piece of wood, but, as an example, dadoes for shelves on a long piece of stock that registers well on the fence are a breeze.
Actually any cuts on small stock can be a bit nerve rattling on any powered saw, 'cept perhaps a bandsaw.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 3/28/2008 12:04 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 3/28/2008 12:04 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Ok i see ...and thanks for the quik post ...aint email great ...lol
yes small stuff even on a miter or table saw can be a bit scarey ...one should always be very alert ...I was trying to cut a small piece of EBONY on a miter and damn if it didnt kick it clear across the room ..I was very glad i was not in front of that one ...Mlyle in Bonney Lake
Like many iothers in here have said, when that inner voice says to you, "I'm not comfortable making that cut"; I look over and there is the bandsaw. Mebbe a little cleanup on the shooting board and we're good to go.
I tend to make a lot of small parts for birdhouses and suc and sometimes I think I'd kiss the feet of the person who invented the bandsaw.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hey Great minds .....I am just finishing up my first Birdhouse ...here is a pic ...and this one if i had it to do over again ..i would paint the smaller pieces before assembly ...mlyle of Bonney Lake
Very cool!
"There was a crooked man, who had a crooked bird."
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
funny thing is ....painted birdhouses and the birds dont touch them .,...lol
Please take this as a compliment. The first word that popped into my brain was Gumbybird, but I've never seen one! :>)
I love it!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
It's the exposure to all those "knives" to my hands. Using it for dados is possible; I've done it a few times. I just have to remind myself to be extra carefull when doing it since it doesn't afford the protection provided on a table saw. For this reason I only use the RAS with a dado head when I can't do it as accurately on my cabinet saw.
One thing is for sure ...The RADIAL ARM SAW is a different Beast ...I have been reading the book by Mr Sawdust "How to master the Radial Saw"...When i first saw him I thought he was just a Sideshow freak ...but he has some really great points about safety ...and I think his knowledge of the RAS is quite in
depth he has a wealth of information to share. I think any owner of a RAS if they have not already ..should buy his book and read it and you will become a believer ...I love the way he says " Your fingers and arms are more important than any work or project you are building" and he means it ...anyway I dont work for him ..but his book is teaching me.
I have yet to put my dado blades on my RAS yet as i have some health issues to get taken care of before i can get back to my shop ...oH yes and I love this forum ...please keep up the commentaries ..
gator9t9 in Bonney Lake
DeWalt used to send reps around to their dealers to give demonstrations on the RAS. They called them sawdust parties. The one I attended at our local lumber yard about 30 years ago was very good. The demonstrator showed most of the operations the saw could do and answered questions. I was impressed. Don't know if they still do this or not but if they do, it is well worth the time.
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