Powermatic or Delta 14″ Deluxe Bandsaw?
MatthewSchenker
| Posted in Power Tools and Machinery on
Hi All,
I am about to replace my bandsaw, and I am considering two models, both with “deluxe” features:
Powermatic 1791216K PWBS-14CS
Delta 28-475X X5
The prices quoted are from my local Woodcraft:
The Powermatic is available for about $855, with 10% discount and tax.
The Delta is available for about $755, with 10% discount and tax.
The extra features of one cancel out the other one’s, so in the end, they are really close. So I am wondering about inherent quality here.
Can someone help me decide between the two? Right now, the edge goes to the Delta, since I plan to use 1/8″ blades. The rollers on the Powermatic make it less friendly with narrow blades.
Edited 6/24/2005 12:30 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
Replies
I recently got the Powermatic. I didn't really consider the Delta owing mostly to my poor experiences with some of their other tools (probably not fair on my part). So I can't help with contrasting, but I can vouch for the Powermatic as a great machine so far. Set-up was quick and straight-forward. The only finicky part was trying to tighten the bolts holding the motor in place while keeping enough tension in the belt and everything square. An assistant would make it relatively easy. Working alone, I used sticks of wood to hold the motor in place while I tightened the bolts.
I love the Carter quick detensioning bar. The light is nice too. I haven't used any 1/8th inch blades so far, but don't see why they would be a problem. Are Carter bearings problematic with narrow blades? I suppose with sacrificial blocks, you could get more support??
Samson,
I'm glad to hear you like the Powermatic. On a feature-for-feature basis, the Powermatic does seem to have a slight edge over the Delta. Maybe my doubts about the rollers are unfounded?I have heard that rollers do not do well with 1/8" blades. This would be a problem for me, since I use my bandsaw a lot for curved work. On the other hand, I have heard that the rollers are great for straight cutting.Maybe someone else could offer an opinion about rollers and narrow blades???
I have a hobby woodworking shop in my garage. All my stationary power tools are Delta [ and on roll-arounds]. They got heavy scrutiny from my German tool-and-die engineer father before I could select them from the pack.
Band saw passed down from my Dad bought in 1952. Still works great. Gave it a treat and put on new tires and replaced the gear oil (It is the wood/metal version) Didn't really have to do either but it has been so good to me. All parts original.You can get the parts and owners manual on line from delta if you want to read up in advance.
As a side note: I would rather have the square blade guides rather than rollers. What ever debris comes in from the top goes out the bottom and the blade can't tell the difference. If it can't get into that micrometer thin space then it doesn't come between it and the blade. With rollers that concept doesn't hold. I don't think the rollers are a good idea. The top quarters of each roller act like a ramp or funnel that can catch more than its share of junk and then thump or compress it trying to get it past the blade.
Quality is the only thing I want and I am willing to pay for it. Quality does not mean it is THE most expensive one in the lot. This business of "it is ok for now and some day I'll get a better one" is why a lot of people spend a great deal of time adjusting for the inadequacies of their tools.
Ever see the work that is put out by the husband that was given the basic power tools from his wife. She bought 'starter' stuff in case he didn't like woodworking. He made things that were out of square, needed a lot of sanding and repair and generally looked like crap to more experienced eyes. Sure enough, she was right...he didn't like woodworking.
I have a Delta Contractor's saw with the husky fence 20 years old. Accurate, well machined, and parts are available, manuals are available. This year went to Woodcraft and added the Beismeyer fence and my own 24" right formica extension. They told me it was worth every penny and I now agree. Unbelieveably accurate and deflection free.
Delta 12" heavy duty planer RC30 and 8" jointer are about 18 years. Used almost every week most of those years. Excellent machining, parts are available, manuals are available.
I have a Rockwell/Delta radial woodworkers bench top drill press. Got it in the 60's or early 70's. Used a great deal and works fine.
We not only look at the versatility of the tool and the parts situation but study the way things are made. I have a great respect for any tools made well, I don't care what the country of origin is [if we did we would own very few tools].
The tools can be made by the same factory in China or Taiwan or Protugal or Brazil and have totally different levels of quality. In my opinion Jet is a poorly made knockoff of Delta. Many of the parts are interchangable but when you see them side by side, you know which is Delta. Grissley is a poorly made knockoff of Delta and other machines. Powermatic used to be a fantastic product in the High Schools years ago. Now the quality is compromised in many places. [Gently] Run your hand along the edge of a table saw of in the slots of the extension tables to see what I mean.
The other machines that get painted green and come from Taiwan or other Asian countries need to be looked at face to face on an individual basis and by tool type to see which look like winners and which are duds. I bought a Woodtek (I think that is the brand) two bag dust collector and have had no probrlems with it and it runs for hours at a time. The same factory makes them for several companies and make ever so slight changes, if any at all. FWW did an article on this I believe.
I bought a Delta Air Cleaner (I think Jet and others put their name of the same thing) that I run from the ceiling. I read the posts AFTER I bought it. Packaging was not that bad but the Impeller was eccentric and no way that thing got hit. I could feel everything in the house shaking when it hit high speed. The acrylic lens over the wind indicator was cracked because they screwed it to the case with no provision for dampening between the crew head and the plastic. The remote control didn't work. Delta graciously replaced everything under warranty [it was brand new] and now works like a champ. You should see what I would have breathed in!!!. Don't ever order one of these shipped to you. Pick it up and plug it in right there.
Out of all the brands out there I think you are looking at two very good makers. The rollers are a negative. Look for the finished parts, casting and machining. Especially the edges. If they paid attention to that then they probably paid attention to the stuff that really counts.
A band saw is one of those tools . . .
In the showroom you say, "Will I really ever get $800 of use out of that thing"
In the basement you think, "The most versatile thing in this place".
Enjoy and plan to pass it on down.
Jerry
Jerry,
Your point about the rollers is what I was trying to understand. I had not heard about the rollers compressing debris against the blade. I was more concerned about not being able to run 1/8" blades.Based on what you're saying, the Delta sounds better.So now I have a vote for the Powermatic and a vote for the Delta.
I bought a 1/8" blade a few months back and was hoping to do some nice small intricate cuts with it. Everytime I try to use it, it wants to come out of the guide blocks. I put the teeth just my side of the guide blocks so only the flat steel part of the blade rides in the blocks. I don't know if you could do any better if you had rollers.
I have had the 1/8 blade on and off several times. I find it really frustrating to keep it on the mark. I now try to do everything with the 1/4". My guess is that there is just too much distance between the wheels and the guides and the work piece to be in command of an 1/8" piece of moving band steel.
If you have a real woodworking store somewhere within driving distance, you might want to see just how well you can work with the 1/8" blade. We have a Woodcraft in Portsmouth, NH that has a work area in back.
Jerry,
On my old bandsaw (the one I'm replacing) I used 1/8" blades all the time. I ran Cool Blocks, and I set the blocks so they completely surround the blade, then I set the guard as low as I can without hitting the wood. With this set-up, I am able to cut pretty intricate curves and the blade doesn't pop out.
I think I have to get some of those cool blocks just for the heck of it.
The whole blade is set in? That would seem to make the best sense for blade support. It doesn't both the teeth set?
Cool Blocks are solid phenolic. If they are in contact, the blade cuts them as required, and they actually have a lubricating effect.The older I get, the better I was....
Jerry,
As papanick explains, Cool Blocks are made of a substance that allows the blade to be embedded. They work great, and they are cheap. And they last a long time.
Matthew,
After I got my Delta I bought some blades at the WW show in Springfield. The lady said I needed to buy a special Carter adaptor if I wanted to use 1/8" blades...then she proceeded to make ribbon candy from a block of wood to demonstrate the adaptor. I think it was about $70 bucks at the time...I bought a 3/16th instead...
BG,
I was at that Springfield show as well, and I know the lady you're referring to. She's always demonstrating the Timberwolf blades. She does cut curves really fast. Her big thing is to say that the width of the blade doesn't matter and that you can resaw with a 1/8" blade.But why would you need an adapter for 1/8" blades on the Delta? I'm missing something here.
Edited 6/24/2005 5:05 pm ET by Matthew Schenker
"The lady said I needed to buy a special Carter adaptor if I wanted to use 1/8" blades...then she proceeded to make ribbon candy from a block of wood to demonstrate the adaptor."
Oh oh. This is something I don't have. What is it and where can I see a picture of it. Can't resist tool gadgets that make real sense.
I was at a tool store today and someone slipped this question into the conversation.
"How can he affort all this stuff he says he has?"
Well, the facts are: No wife, no kids at home, no pets, paid up mortgage and car, don't drink and don't smoke. Used to but no more.
'He stood staring at the Kreg tool and the Leigh Jig display and was complaining about the cost. He waved his had from this one to that one, cigarette between his fingers leaving a Z trail in the air as he moved, saying how he could do such great work if he could only afford them. In New Hampshire where I am told cigarettes selling for $28 a carton [no sales tax in NH] are a good deal he could give up smoking for a year, save $1500 and put it toward the two tools and buy the Delta bandsaw, an arm full of blades, cool blocks, and mabe even a fence.
"How can he affort all this stuff he says he has?" Daaaahhh
By the way, thanks for the lesson on cool blocks. Those I buy on Saturday.
Jerry
Matthew,
I believe this is what she discussed....its been a while http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/10812as to the who and why...I don't remember those details but it does seem to make sense that the thrust bearing could not really be supportive with a very narrow blade...but I'm guessing.
BG,
Well, I could be mistaken on this, but a "stabilizer" just doesn't seem necessary. As I said, I do intricate curves on my bandsaw with 1/8" blades just using Cool Blocks. The only time I ever have trouble is if I try to back out of a cut, but I try not to do that.Be careful at woodworking shows. There are some very slick salespeople working those booths who could make you think you need all sorts of things. I go in with a healthy amount of skepticism, and I only buy the things I already decided I wanted/needed.
Matthew,
Yes, I agree, my first experience was in the late 50's at the Danbury Fair. All the 'slick talkers' were offering up all kinds of inventions that would clearly enhance your life...from pairing apples to eliminating fog from inside your car windows...it was great!Today, if anything, I'm a bit too skeptical when it comes to tools and gadgets. I try to remind myself regularly that I really don't know anything about either the tools or woodworking...and try to listen hard to those who do. I'm getting better but not without paying tuition to the school of hardknocks.
And the Danbury Fair is now the "Danbury Fair Mall" :-((my parents used to take me out of school and bring my brother and I and my grandmother to the fair - I remember the ostrich races (I had to be about 7-10 years old).Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Hi All,
I can't believe more people aren't chiming in about the Powermatic versus the Delta "deluxe" 14" bandsaws!
Come on -- I need your input to end a classic case of tool-choice anxiety.
Powermatic or Delta...
Bandrollers or no bandrollers...
Those are the burning questions.
Don't know many who've owned both. I have the anniversary edition delta 14". I'm happy. Came with the wheels (a must) and the circle cutting jig (nice but not a must). The fence on mine is a pain - something is out of alignment so when you tighten the screw, the fence jogs into square (when lose it is out of square)...Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
The Powermatic is available for about $855.. You can get a RICON fer a bit more.. 14 inch about that.. 18 a bit more.. I have a 18" and LOVE IT!
Will,
I looked at the Rikon 18" while I was in my local Woodcraft this week. It looks like a good saw, but I don't know much about the company. A few woodworkers I have spoken to say they do like the machines.I considered moving up to an 18" bandsaw, since you get those bigger tables, stronger frames, advanced blade guards and height mechanisms. I also thought about a 16" bandsaw. Jet makes a nice-looking one. With the 16", you still get those better features, while still being able to run 1/8" blades. But then you have a maximum resaw height of 10". With the 14" you have the potential to resaw 12".So in the end I came back to the 14" bandsaws for my shop.But I would be interested in hearing from people about running 1/8" blades in 18" bandsaws. Has anyone tried this?
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