I’m looking at a plan for building a lumber storage rack using 2×4’s bolted to the wall (with “feet” based on the cement floor of my shop), and pipes inserted to support the wood.
They indicate the use of 7/8″ O.D. pipe, the 2×4’s are mounted on edge to the wall, and a 7/8″ Forstner bit is used to drill holes through the edge of each 2×4. These holes accomodate the pipe.
This procedure leaves 1/4″ of lumber on each side of the pipe. Doesn’t seem like much to me, but then whadoIknow, LOL. Anyone tried this and had it work, or not work? Vertical grain fir OK for this use?
PS: Not a huge amount of lumber here. Small amounts of 1x and 2x stock, and I have a couple of 2″ x 12″ x 10′ walnut and hoping to add a few more of those, or smaller cherry flitches.
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Edited 8/25/2002 12:01:18 AM ET by forest_girl
Edited 8/25/2002 12:02:13 AM ET by forest_girl
Replies
Lert:
If you happen to have a copy of Wood Magazine -Best Ever Work-Shops go to page 14 and look at that one. I built it except used shelving track and double prong shelf brackets.
Fir should be fine. 1/4" on each side probaly OK. If you like overkill like me, butt two 2x4 studs together and tie together with 2 1/2" sheet-metal screws slightly counter-sunk. Or bolt them together with 3 1/2" carriage bolts. Might add a dab of glue. This would give you 3" studs on edge and you can increase to 1" pipe or more. Orignal plan will probaly hold. How many wall studs spaced evenly does it call for.
Also, if you want to keep cost down, you could instead of using pipe cut 2x4 for arms (same as pipe) and simply bolt them to wall studs with two or three 3 1/2" grade 5 bolts, nuts and washers.
If you have the mag I mentioned it will show you what I mean. How did they say you mount studs to wall? Seems on edge you will have to us at least 5 1/2 or 6" lag screws after you locate studs. Are your garage studs exposed?
Wishing you well with project and regards..
Sarge..john
Hi Sarge, I just got back in from the shop. (Every other weekend I can stay in the shop as late as I like, guilt-free! Crank up "All Blues" on KPLU and go for it :-)
This plan is from Popular Woodworking -- tapers the ends of the 2x4's and uses 4.5" lag bolts (and large washers) slightly countersunk to tap into the double top plate in the garage wall. Same on the bottom end, sink into studs, tips of the bottoms of the 2x4's rest on floor. Looks like he has the 2x4's set about 3' apart -- probably 32" right? 16"x2.
The pipe seems pretty inexpensive (at Home Depot anyway), although this project will definitely put some wear on my Forstner bit, so there's some trade-off there. Nice clean looking design.
When did that Wood "Best of" mag come out? I have about 3 years of Wood, but not sure if I have that one. Too sleepy to look tonight, but if you could narrow it down for me that'd be great.
Later! Thanks!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie, don't bother with the good bit. Pick up a spade bit like the carps use to tear into 2x sticks. That ain't no piano you're building! I angle the holes a few degrees upwards. My pipes (set in 4x4's) have sagged some, but they are pretty loaded up.
The "7/8-inch" O.D. pipe you'll be getting is called out as 1/2-inch pipe, the I.D. measurement.
Hiya Splintie. I was surprised the author used a Forstner for this purpose, and have no idea why he chose that rather than a spade bit. I already have a set of spades, and will try it on a scrap pieces to see if there's some reason it would be not-so-desirable.
I was thinking of you when I wrote the original post, knowing that your set-up is holding many-times x many-times what mine will, LOL. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
I just finished a similar project in my garage or I should say I started out with the same intentions and changed my mind along the way. First, I was not impressed with the lateral movement of the design. Granted, my two by was attached through the dry wall to the inside two by, but when you wiggle the pipe on end it's not very sturdy. I did not use lag bolts and that does make a big difference, however, the structural forces to pull the two by away from the wall when fully loaded are minimal in MHO and, poperly designed, lag bolts whould not be needed.
An alternative is to include one or two solid shelves which greatly increases the structural stength...which is what I did. I attached some triangle shaped pieces of 1/2 ply to a piece of two by stock on the horizontal and then attached it to the vertical two by stock on the wall. Putting a 48"x 18"x1/2" slab of ply on the horizontal and attaching greatly improved the strength. Also, i had some solid shelves for those invaluable small pieces of oak....lol.
Edited 8/25/2002 6:19:24 AM ET by BG
BG, great tip here, and I will follow it! Know what you mean about those little pieces of oak. I treasure mine, who knows where they'll end up!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
LERT:
Just got back from International WW Show here. Looks like the cavalry has once again come to the rescue. ( I like this place ). Take Splintie's advice on spade bit. Don't need to test. BG had good thoughts on structural strenght. You could make it free-standing and run a 2x4 across top which could tie into wall studs. I have a base that accepts vertical sheet storage at bottom of mine. As little as you keep on hand you might consider as you can eliminate 2 problems with one stone. Using the industrial track and adustable brackets I added melomite (??) shelves across the shelving brackets to solve dis-color problem Howie mentioned. It also adds structural strength. Splintie keeps lots on hand and her 4x4 is probaly more heavy-duty than you need. Unless you like to hedge as sometimes you big stock-guru's do. Ha..
Wood Mag. Best-Ever-Workshops (it only says display until Dec. 2001-no given month. Has guy with plaid shirt holding a case door open).
Just touched the new to be Jet Super Saw..oooohhhh! Don't need a TS but ..oooohhhh! Left checkbook at home as I try to think ahead..oooohhhh..glad I did..
Have a great Sunday off, regards..
Sarge..john
Thanks Sarge, I remember that guy in the plaid shirt, so he's around here somewhere. Sunday off? Don't I wish, I have a 4-hour work day today, so not complaining too much. Monday's are our "closed" day.
Did you happen to see the new Jet bandsaw design? It's supposed to be incredibly low on the vibration scale. Our local dealer can't keep 'em in stock. Good thing you left the checkbook home, huh?
Speaking of work, gotta go. Thanks.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
LERT:
Yep, saw the bandsaw. I still have a 12" Jet open-stand as I just sold a 14" to a new woodworker in anticipation of the the new Jet. I have no problem with the 12" either. I threw away the open stand and built a rather heavy base. Positioned rubber grommets between saw and base and then bolted down. I have no vibration that I can detect.
The Jet is sweet as for as what I can tell not testing it. Also, I saw a new 14" bandsaw from Tannewitz that caught some attention. They been around industrial strength for awhile. Saw seems very solid. Would like to wait for reviews after it hits the floor-a-runnin' b-4 I form opinion on it overall.
Like you, got work in shop that requires my assistance..
Sarge..john
Not so fast there big fella! Talk to us about the new Jet TS. Did you peak inside..how many horses did you count, or smell? HOW MUCH MONEY? Is the fense anygood? HOW MUCH MONEY? Did you get a chance to see it in action? HOW MUCH MONEY? Any measurements on the cast iron table? Oh, and if you had your check book with you, how much money would you have written on the check?....lol Thanks, BG
BG:
You need miss anything, do you. I'm begging to think your Alert like FG. Maybe LERT II. ha...
I looked very carefully underneath, top, sides and even mangaged to lift enough to make sure there was anything else hiding under the feet. It is 14 amp 1 3/4 HP according to manufacturers claims. ( Ask Howie or some of the other ee people how they do that, I will leave electric alone ) As you seem to know the saw has cast iron tables. The slider is smooth and efficent form just playing around with it. Machining looks pretty good as most Jet. (Most) The motor is mounted in-board like a contractors. Major plus. The switch can be moved wherever you want it. Fence is newer design than I've seen on Jet. Smoother IMO and has micro-adjuster built in. Did I miss anything?
I can tell you it's looks like a DEwalt clone with some improved features. Fence seems much better. I have always liked the Dewalt for a hybrid as it has a slider built on. If you've used any type of slider it comes in awful. I built one for my hybrid cabinet saw from steel pipe and roller skate bearing. What I didn't like about Dewalt is the tables. Design should have been cast-iron. This Jet in my opinion is an improvement over Dewalt in fence and tables. I understand it's going to be $1200. Depends locally who's hungry from my experience with shopping. I think it comes with accessories, extensions, etc. as Jet was very busy with many and I could not ask as I was limited time. Dewalt is around $1600 cheapest I'm aware @ Tool Crib in Dakotas with the works. If you don't need the 3 to 6 HP thing as I normally do not, this is IMO the SAW. IMO ( I have learned well here ) he.
I WOULD WAIT AND SEE WHAT USERS HAVE TO SAY B-4 I WOULD PURCHASE.. Sometimes you can look awful pretty in a uniform: BUT CAN YOU FIGHT??!!
Have a good day and anything I missed, Holler..
Sarge..john
Should work fine. I have a rack system very similar with pipes that stick out about 14". One thing to keep in mind is iron pipe can discolor wood and, if too much weight is put on top of the lowest piece of lumber, indentations will result in the lumber. Sometimes you don't even see them until you go to finish the project. I put 7/8" ID clear plastic hose over each pipe. Keeps the wood off the iron and softens the amount of pressure on the wood. If I am storing soft wood like pine or cedar, I put a hard wood board on the bottom.
Hi Howie, the discoloration was something I was pondering. This would be galvanized pipe, but I get uneasy anytime pipe is contacting wood. Good idea about the hose because it won't add much weight.
Hadn't got to thinking so much about the pipe impressions, maybe because at this point weight isn't much of a factor, but I'll keep it in mind as I get more lumber.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
> ...This procedure leaves 1/4" of lumber on each side of the pipe.
True, but this 1/4" is only at the very sides of the pipe where the grain or side of the 2bufer is parallel to the tangent of the pipe. The stress on the pipe (the vertical load of the stuff on the shelf) is down thus you're bearing directly on the end grain of the post with little lateral force to speak of.
Agree with the suggestion of drilling at a slight angle such that the compression in the end grain won't result in your pipe "arms" ending up with a little droop. Do you want to make the pipe arms removable and or adjustable like shelf brackets? Probubly not judging from the discussion thus far but if you do, suggest oversizing the holes slightly to allow easy take out and insertion.
Some small angle bracket braces top, midpoint and bottom might take care of the side-side weakness RE: the simple lag bolt-to-the-plate top & bottom business.
[email protected]
FG,
I agree with BG and Howie. I made mine as a 2X4 wall and attached only to the ceiling joists. The torque load of the wood on the wall will keep it in place against the foundation or stud wall.. I used 2X4 arms(4 each level) gusseted to the uprights using 1/2" plywood gussets on either side of the arms, fastened with 2 1/2" deck screws(three in the upright and three in the arm on each side). I have had as much as 500 BF of cherry on a shelf with no problems.
Howie's point of the indentations caused from the pipes should be of real concern to you. Unless you use a shelf between the lumber and the pipes, you will see this every time on the bottom piece.
Good Luck!
TDF
Hi Dennis, how's the eastside doin'?
I think the article calls for a 5-degree slant to keep the lumber in its place. As far as that 1/4" goes, sounds like I'm just going to have to be careful about the right-to-left forces, as when taking wood out of the unit, to make sure the pipes aren't getting pushed against that thin edge, especially from the furthest tips of the pipes where the torque would be pretty strong. Angle brackets sound like a good idea.
I'll drill a series of holes to provide for some adjustability. The wall I have to work with is cinder block up to about 7 feet, then wood, so Tom's suggestion to fasten to the ceiling joists is appealing. Wish I had 500 BF of cherry, LOL! Thanks Tom, for the suggestions.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 8/25/2002 11:31:17 PM ET by forest_girl
If you're worried about the sideways torque stuff, get some cheap-ie 1/4 doug-fir/hemlock stuff to glue & screw on the sides of your 2x uprights?? Stick 'em on *after* all the holes are drilled. If the ceiling joists run perp. to the wall you're putting this wood rack on and if they're exposed, you could even run the 1x stuff up past the top of the 2x uprights to anchor them to the joists.
Just thinking outloud.
Eastside? I'm beat. Tore out about 100 old RR ties that were doing duty as planting beds and retaining walls. Replaced them with re-cycled broken up concrete slab stuff scrounged off a construction site.
Can you say "Cheap and dumb"? (hehe) At least I sleep well at night.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Hey Dennis, what did you do with the old RR ties??? We need some (cheaper and dumber, ROFL!!!). Our parking area in front of the garage is cut into a tiny bit of a hill, and the old "retaining wall" is pretty much rotted out. If we don't fix it pretty soon, the drainage pond up above it is going to be in our front "yard" (read: field).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
I awoke one morning to find my 5'x20' retaining wall made of RR ties had collasped into the drive way. After removing enough material so the car could get by, I decided to slope the land back with a shovel and put a border of large field stones on the edge of the driveway. Moving 2.5-3 foot field stones by hand was fun. With all the extra dirt I made a burm on the ohter side of the driveway, covered in mulch and planted evergreens. So, don't be lusting after Dennis's RR ties. There is a better way and pride will remain in tact....lol
Asking about a little detail here: Was looking closely at the joists above the wall last night, trying to plot and plan. Where the rafter comes down and meets the joist, the joist is cut at a matching angle and there is a tie-plate nailed across the faces of the two where they meet (the rafter continues on past the wall).
Naturally, this tie plate occupies the area directly above the face of the wall below, meaning when I run a 2x4 up there and nail, I'd be nailing through the tie-plate. Is this going to be a problem??
Another detail: I've been assuming that stud-grade 2x's are not a good idea for this project. Please correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I'd welcome the chance to save some $$, but not at the expense of having it all fall down of course. Our earthquake 18 months ago gave me a new slant on things, so-to-speak.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Re nail plate:
The fine woodworking approach would be to spread artist's oil paint or lipstick or Prussian blue or something of that nature on the nail plate, press the 2x4 against it to take an impression of where the holes are, then drill pilot holes in the 2x4 from that side, so when you nail it up the nails will slip right through the holes in the nail plate.
The slap dash approach would be to lay the 2x4 on the bench and start two or three nails, with the point of one of them sticking out the back side. Then jiggle the 2x4 around till the point goes in one of the holes in the nail plate and hammer it home. Then, with the 2x4 secured in place, you can hammer the other nails home. If they hit the nail plate, just hit them real hard, they'll either go through or the point will bend enough to find a hole. A 4 lb. sledge might work better than a framing hammer. You might want to have a helper backing up the other side of the truss with a 12 lb. sldge to make sure it doesn't get pushed too far sideways. Hammering the joist out from under the rafter would not be a good idea. A couple of extra nail size holes will not compromise the integrity of the nail plate. Any mis-alignments between uprights will even out when you put enough wood on the rack.
The production approach would be to borrow or rent a compressor and air nailer. If you aim the nails perpendicular to the surface in both dimensions, the air nailer should punch right through the nail plates. If you have too much of an angle, the plate might deflect the nail, which could then rip out the side of the 2x4 and go zinging around the shop until it either runs out of energy or encounters soft human flesh. Wear eye protection of you decide on this approach.
The mechanical approach would be to get some u-bolts, the kind with 2 fairly sharp 90 degree bends instead of a curved 180, and clamp the uprights to the trusses. An alternative mechanical approach would be to drill and bolt through the uprights and the rafters. If you're careful to drill through the middle of the rafters, this would almost certainly not weaken them enough to make any difference, but I'm not a structural engineer, so don't take may word for it.
A funky, experimental approach would be to forego fasteners altogether, clean the trusses and the uprights and use a big wad of epoxy, filled with enough sanding dust to keep it from running. This approach would harder to modify than any of the others.
Hiya Dunc, thanks for taking the time to provide me with a variety of possibilities! You get an A for entertainment too, LOL!, with your safety tip that goes along with the air nailer possibility. I have a small compressor, but only a brad gun. Will probably do this project with hand tools. Have enough to worry about what with the yellowjackets on the prowl this time of year. Heat-seeking nails aren't anything I want to deal with.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Arghhhhh - you've got a trussed roof, eh?
Won't be a problem structurally nailing through the splice since it's nailed to the rafters and joists anyway. Getting the nail through is another issue. Myself I wouldn't use a power nailer since, as was noted, any slight off angle will send the nail curling back atcha. Ask me how I know this (not-so-haha)
All this being considered I think I'd drop by the hardware store and pick up some 3x3 angle brackets and use them (each side of the uprights) to screw them to the top plates. If you're like Sarge (and me ...) and go for the gold when it comes to stout, you can run a separate 2x4 along the bottom edge and screwed to the bottom of the joists snug up against the outside edge of your uprights to further resist the outward, lateral force of the load. Most of the load is vertical but there is a component that wants to make the whole apparatus fall off the wall, of course. Otherwise we could just stand them agains the wall and rely on gravity.
Don't forget, we're in a siesmic zone 3 building environment! (grin)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
"Top plates" being the big pieces of lumber at the top of the wall, running in the same direction as the wall, right?? Just want to make sure I'm interpreting right, and construction lingo is not one of my strong-suits. Am presently clearing out a storage rack the sig'o's son put up several years ago, tearing that down. Should get started on the rack later this week.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
> ...."Top plates" being the big pieces of lumber at the top of the wall, running in the same direction as the wall, right??
Correct-Oh. I take it the studs are exposed in your place of sanctity?
I took the question of the RR ties to email as it's "knot" relative to the forum. Pardon using the same silly pun twice.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Exposed studs: wellllll...... the wall is a weird one. From the concrete floor up to about 6', it's cinder block (that side of the garage is built up against a bit of a hill, so I guess that's why they did the cinder block thing. Then there is a short (24") wood wall above that to the roof part.
This left wall was chosen by proces of elimination. The back wall has the wood stove and a large window, the right side has built-in cabinets and a window, and the front, which was once open, has a wall that I built far, far short of code and also furthest away from the wood stove, so I'm concerned if I put the rack that far away, the stock wouldn't stay dry enough.
I'll check my email. On one of my accounts, the server seems to be down today.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
> ...From the concrete floor up to about 6', it's cinder block...
Cinder of concrete block? Probably concrete if it's a bearing wall which is is if the roof trusses rest on it.
Suggestions - stuff I would do in your case or any case where wood is up against masonry that is below grade on the other side.
1) Isolate the rack uprights from the CMU (construction lingo for Concrete Masonry Units = concrete block, etc.) with strips of 15lb roofing felt. Again, overkill but it rains around here, the block may or may not be dampproofed on the dirt side and wood soaks up moisture when against masonry. Long term this leads to dryrot. Pressure treated studs are far more expensive than a cheap rool of roofing paper.
2) You'll need to anchor the uprights at the bottom with some angle brackets. No I don't own stock in an angle bracket fabrication shop! (grin). Rent or borrow a 1/2" drill motor that has an impact action. IF you come over to get the RR ties you can borrow mine. It goes through CMU like butter with the right bit. Use a masonry drill to drill for the screw anchors for attachment to the CMU. ps - don't drill all the way through or you'll solve the moisture problem on the exterior side of the wall! -hehe- I suggest this since your only anchor points into wood are the top two feet of the uprights.
Which brings to mind the possibility that the interior face of the studs is offset from the interior face of the block, right? How are you planning on dealing with this difference with respect to anchoring the uprights at the top?Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Hi Dennis, I can tell by the messages you've left tonight that you're a night-owl too! Unfortunately, though my eyes are open, my brain's half asleep. I'll go back and digest your post tomorrow morning with a nice big cup of "Foglifter" coffee beside me. Thanks! G'night...forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Picked up the roofing felt, 2x4's, pipe and wall-finishing-off material today (had to take some time off to put a new gutter on the garage! rain approaching)
Wall has several little jigs to it. Wood top wall lies about 15/16" back from face of CMU wall (hah!). Wood wall is pretty primitive, so plan on covering it with OSB and paneling of sorts just to make it air-tight. That will make it within about 1/4" of the face of the CMU wall. Thought I just put a spacer in there. Probably will use a system of angle irons to stiffen the whole thing up. The tops of the 2x4s will be fastened to the joists and maybe to the trusses also.
One big problem would be if I needed to fasten anything to the floor. Evidently the floor is Portland Cement, whatever the heck that is. I rented an impact drill a couple years ago when I was adding the front wall, and it didn't do much to this impervious cement.
Since this wall has absolutely no electricity, am going to spend tonight reading my electrical book to see what I should do before sealing up the wall, to provide for future outlets.
Hope everyone had a good LD weekend.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Jamie -
Sounds like you're on your way!
The floor is concrete, to be exact. Made from sand, gravel and ... portland cement (but who's keeping score? -grin-). Your impact drill won't do much to the concrete unless you have a good masonry bit, of course. A better choice is what's called a 'rock drill'. These are beasties but will go through concrete like butter. Well, assuming the butter's been in the freezer for a day or so. They have a much greater "impact" on the otherwise unyielding concrete.
Do you really feel like you need to anchor the uprights to the floor? Just isolate the ends with a little patch of 15lb felt and let your wall anchors do their job. If the ends of the uprights are resting on the floor, they're not goin' anywhere.
Good thought on the electrical work but - once you get the rack filled with goodies, will you be able to use any outlets you put in the wall? Given the answer is yes, I'd run the wire (romex) through the existing studs mounting the outlet box(es) out from the face of studs to be flush with the finished OSB thickness. I took an old 3/4" auger, the kind with the self-feeding screw threads on the end, cut off the tang and chucked it in my 1/2" hog of a drill motor and blasted through studs like no tomorrow. Don't hang on too tightly, though, cuz' if it catches something you can wind up with a sprained wrist, ... or worse. It'll stop once it gets twisted out of your hands anyway. (grin).
Hey - good luck. And as for the RR ties, we found a home for them up at our 'farm' at Sedro Wooley.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Hi Dennis, thanks for the additional info. Nah, I don't think I need to anchor it to the floor (thank heavens). Was just saying "if" in case someone smart thought I did, LOL.
Noticed a place where someone (not meeee!) had driven a roofing nail into the cement block. Huh? If this was possible, doesn't seem like drilling a hole would be very tough. When I pulled the nail out, a cone-shaped divot(sp?) came with it. Let's see, am I fastening anything directly to the cement? Can't remember. Hope not.
Looking at the few circuits that are already there, doesn't look like I'll need to run any Romex in the area of the wood rack. Will just work around it. Just wanted to check in case I needed that part of the wall to get to the workbench, but no.
Have done the gripping-too-tightly-on-the-drill thing -- once was enough! 1/2" bit in a Makita drill, som'pin went wrong, ouch! Then there's the time the drill took off spinning two pieces of wood with a little Bessey bar-clamp attached. That really hurt -- whacked me in the knee with the clamp. Dumb.
Glad you were able to use the left over RR ties.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
> ...Noticed a place where someone (not meeee!) had driven a roofing nail into the cement block.
It's surprisingly easy to drive a short nail into CMU. Especially if yours are cinder block. The aggregate in them is "softer" than the small gravelly stuff used in heavier concrete block. Of course, "soft" is a relative term hard to accept when you drop on on your toe.
If you do end up having to anchor anything to those block, regardless what type they be, I'd use something like a large molley anchor that would spread the pullout load over a bigger area at the back of the wall of the cell. Figger the ends of the block are a nominal 1" thick and there's also a web in the middle so try to avoid those areas. Take it easy with an impact drill & masonry bit 'cus you can blow out a pretty big chunk in the back of the cell wall if you get too eager.
As an aside, I just bought a 17" flat screen display - man are these things cool! Now I need to upgrage my laptop to a higher res that the panel supports. TC is sure nice on it, though!!
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Well, I have a zillion molly bolts for some reason (old auction lots, probably) so I guess I'm in good shape.
Congrats on your new monitor -- I've been hankerin' after one too, but tools, gutters and lumber racks get the nod first, LOL! What's "TC" ?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It's done! See pics in gallery if you're interested. Turned out the cement blocks are filled, so the molly bolts weren't quite the thing I needed :-). Got some nail-within-a-sleeve doo-dahs to fasten some brackets at the lower end of the 2x4's to the concrete -- just wasn't comfortable having only one bolt in each upright, especially since the floor's uneven and the 2x4's didn't really sit flat.
Ahhh, now I can clean my shop up again -- gotta find room for the cabinet that was displaced, or empty it out. Have you ever wanted to just throw away all that miscellaneous stuff? Hmmmmm.....
Thanks for the help! You too Sarge! Tried to address to two people, but couldn't figure out how/if.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
LERT:
Just got on-line. Been in the shop most of day. Well, I studied the picture and all I can say is Congratulations on a job well done. It looks good to go! I agree about anchoring at the base. May not need it, but I'm in to over-kill anyway. Might be a fault line running under your yard. Ha.. Just kiddin'...It really does look structually good. I saw ( I think ) the little plastic white shims at the base. They are fine as I've used them to put some heavy-duty stuff on. I don't think I've ever seen a level garage floor.
Again, Great Job!! I know you're proud and should be. I really mean that. I'm impressed. Going over to Kudo's HD to see what that's all about. I'm going to guess..HD cut your pipes with their pipe cutter for free..Was going to post that to you earlier and got busy. Finished all the clamps on mortiser and cabinet today. I'll just have to go see..
sarge..jt
I'm pretty late to the discussion so not much to add. I've built 3
of the stud/pipe wood racks. I loosely followed a Shop Notes plan. I used 4x4s and made one that attached to ceiling and floor but I could use both sides for storage. My solution for the pipe marring the wood was to use foam pipe insulation found in the plumbing dept. Pretty cheap storage all around.
Rick
Rick, thanks for the tip on the pipe insulation. I have 3 layers that don't have the OSB. Maybe I'll try the insulation on those. The shelves are nice where there might be short pieces that would fall through. Is there any chance the foam would impart anything that would affect finish down the line? Don't know why I'm so wary of this possibility. Just paranoid I guess.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
> ...Is there any chance the foam would impart anything that would affect finish down the line?
I'm not Rick, at least not for the moment, but .....
I think most of that stuff is 'closed cell' type of foam so shouldn't pick up or deposite anything. All that will happen is when it gets hot it will stick to that walnut and put horrible black gummy deposits all over it. Best reason yet for letting me store if for you.
Forget it, Sarge, I asked first! (grin)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis:
You might have asked first, but you were probaly up north over the week-end...so...I saw it first! Keep away from that walnut.. I better warn FG again!
sarge..jt
LERT:
You should be paranoid concerning the possibility of ruining the finish down the road. I have seen literally thousands of baord feet of walnut ruined by Wa. State closed-cell-foam poisoning. Be very cautious, someone suspicious may show up in a Land Cruiser posing as a state inspector for closed-cell-foam disease. He may tell you the walnut has been condemned by the state and he will have to haul it off. Do not believe him.. Ship the walnut to me and I will cut it into smaller pieces and disquise it as finished furniture. You can never be too careful with walnut..or people in panama hats that drive LC's..he..
The shelves are a good idea for the small pieces. You seem to have the big picture whupped. You can add options as you need them.
sarge..jt
> ....I have seen literally thousands of baord feet of walnut
ruined by Wa. State closed-cell-foam poisoning.
I don't usually sit laughing uncontrollably in front of my computer, but you cracked me up, bud! Great line!!
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis:
Got a feeling Jamie is beginning to think we're foaming at the mouth over that walnut. She had a great idea keeping her tools under lock and key. Probaly wouldn't be a bad idea to invest in a new lock and logging chain for that shop door also. I suppose we better get our minds off the walnut. If we don't, we may end up with our pictures posted also. ( on the wall of all the post offices ) Wonder if they would look good framed.. ...in Walnut? grin<>
sarge..jt
Sarge -
I asked about "Yellowwood" in another subject line. If you've got any info on it, I'd appreciate a holler.
Thanks.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
> ....Got a feeling Jamie is beginning to think we're foaming at the mouth over that walnut.
No way ... I scored a whole walnut LOG today. Neener-neener (hehehe) Of course it's green. And of course it's only about 12" dia. And of course it's almost all sapwood. But I'll never let *her* know that!! (hahaha)
Wonder if her storage rack would hold a walnut log? <- topic relavence (grin)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis:
I saw your post on Yellow-wood. I went to Hoadley's book, Understanding Wood. Didn't see anything. I bet if you e-mail Stan (Niemici, ah you know how it's spelled) he's probaly the man in this case. I will re-check Hoadley tomorrow as it's getting late EST. Off for appointments so I need to hit the rack.
BTW, Jamie's rack might not hold that log, but I think mine will..he.he Please send the yellow-wood to as I need to further my education. I'll examine it very closely..
sarge..jt
Dennis, I was really hoping to be able to line up some walnut for you but the gentleman sold everything he had (after myself and my friend picked out 3 flitches) to one guy. Wish I'd been in a better position to accumulate lumber a month or so ago! He had both the big walnut and a bunch of cherry. Some exotics too, but wasn't so interested in those).
Oh well, had to be practical I guess. How do you spell "practical"? D-U-M-B.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Saw your rack in the gallery, Jamie. Congrats on organization!
I do the same thing to store approx. 30-35 pipe clamps. They're on the wall right behind the table where i glue up, so i can reach up behind me and hand one over my head to the table. I have the dowels spaced about 3' apart for the 4'-and-shorter clamps and about 4.5' apart for the 6' ones. I store 4-5 clamps on a pair of dowels.
Splintie -
I noticed you mentioned 6' pipe clamps. A neat trick I saw the finish millworkers on this project I'm on use is couplings to make clamps of any size. I have mostly 4' clamps and needed some longer ones for a specific project. So instead of buying new clamp heads and screws, I just bought a couple couplings and some 2' lengths of black iron pipe. The pipe is available most places in pre-cut & pre-threaded pcs of varying lengths. So if I need 6' or 8', etc. clamps, I just break out the couplings and screw whatever lengths of pipe I need together and I'm good to go.
Just a tip in case you didn't know...
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Splintie,
I've been reworking the space available in the basement all summer so I can achieve a better layout (about 200 sq. ft. in total). It sounds like you store your pipe clamps on the horizontal? Somewhere I saw a picture of plywood triangles attached perpendicular to the floor joist (of course that would be vertical storage)as a storage technique. Do you an opinion on that approach? Thanks, BG
Yes, horizontally, just like Jamie's slabs of wood sit on her pipes. You need to angle the dowels so the pipe clamps can't roll off the front, of course.
I used to hang my clamps vertically from the ceiling joists (over the woodstove area, as Jamie is contemplating, and for the same reasons), but i found it was just too easy to bump them, knock them off, or get them swinging in the small, ~500 foot shop i started in. I can't quite picture the triangles you mention, but i like that my clamps are secure on both ends, can't fall over, and leave the floor free to collect a couple feet of debris.
Wow...500 sq. ft. what a luxury...lol I'm working with about 200 sq. ft....that two feet of debris you speak of on your floor ...is my wood rack..its flat at least....lol
No, your correct, the horizontal storage for the clamps can really save the toes...loud noises...followed by foul language. Right now i'm looking at the area above the oil tank as wall space that could be used for both wood storage and pipe clamps. When we lived in Indiana we had a 1700 sq ft basement that went unused...sigh..
200 feet minus the oil tank? That hurts my toes just thinking how tight it is! At least i'm short and an 8' ceiling is like having attic storage available.
I'm presently working on moving into a shop by winter that has 1500 feet, with decent lighting, dust collection, insulation, better storage, more shelving, fewer 5-gallon buckets...instead if my usual "Throw it inside and try to make it fit later" method of moving. I have 1000 feet now, which is OK for making a couple hundred of the same thing, but when i get 8 jewelry chests (75-80 parts each) spread over the place, organization can collapse without warning. A 3 inch box of Brusso hinge stops ($232) once evaded me for days.
Splintie,
It is very tight and requires constant revisions based on the needs of a specific project. The most aggrevating aspect is when I get to finishing all woodworking needs to stop till that is done.
Frankly, I enjoy the configration and integration aspects of a project as much as the actual work...don't mean to imply I'm good at it....lol. Jig space is always a problem, I'm tall and run the risk of destroying my exceptional good looks if I hang them from the joists. I have been talking up the concept of a large porch on the north side of the house...translated: car port underneath, free up two car space to incorporate into workshop.
I would imagine that your new space will allow considerable improvement in productivity and a significant reduction in hassels.
Hi Splintie, clamp storage has been on my list for awhile, and now that the lumber rack is done, shouldn't be too far away. The plan is to locate them next to the wood stove. That way I can use the space that would otherwise be pretty empty, and they can store some heat for me after the fire burns down (silly, I know). Haven't decided between a stationary or mobile rack. Would really like some of my pipes to be on a wheeled rack, we'll see.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
> ..., clamp storage has been on my list for awhile...
Depending on how you want to store them, horizontally or hanging vertically, here's what I did -
I drilled some 1"dia. holes in a piece of 2x6 centered 3" or so from the edge. Then used a saber saw to cut from the edge into and tangent with the sides of the holes so I had a row of slots (sorta like cutting great big finger joints with rounded bottoms).
The 2x was then glued and screwed to a suitable piece of scrap plywood so it sticks out horizontally. Space the slots to fit the width of the clamps that will be hanging from the 2x. Screw the whole thing to the wall and you've got a hanging rack for the clamps.
Down side - it takes up more wall space than putting them horizontally on a rack like what I envision Splintie has.
My ultimate clamp storage system will be a rack like above on casters I can wheel around to where I'm working. The lower part of the rack will have shelves or some other contrivance for storing the other kinds of clamps as well.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
My horizontal pipe clamp storage system is just some simple shelf supports screwed to the wall with moveable brackets (minus the actual shelves). So far I only have a couple of dozen pipe clamps of various sizes, so weight hasn't become an issue.
Oh, and shelf brackets have a tip that curves up slightly, toward the ceiling. This keeps the clamps from rolling off.
David
Hmmm... the garden or the workshop today?
Edited 9/12/2002 12:27:59 PM ET by davamoore
Great idea David! I've got a gazillion of those sitting in storage from an old store I used to have. I'll put them in the equation. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I considered the pipe and wood lumber storage but my shop is drywalled & couldn't afford the extra 3" for the 2x supports. Bought my lumber storage from LeeValley- the hot dip adjustable shelves- 4 2' uprights and 8 arms cost about $80, 20 min to install, Stock now out of the way.
Jamie,
Great lumber rack. Should provide years of trouble free service. A couple of questions.....
Can the pipes be removed and replaced with longer ones as the need arises? or can different length pipes be swapped around to accomodate wider widths of that that beautiful walnut?
I think the pipe insulation is a great idea, however how to prevent it from slipping off the pipes when you remove lumber form the rack. Also, you only really have to worry about any S4S stuff. Otherwise you will plane off any marks left by the pipes.
Anyway, Great job!
TDF
Thanks Tom! (OK, I'm blushing). It feels absolutely great every time I see it out of the corner of my eye when I'm in the shop! (And now it has even more lumber in it -- I relocated some #1 1x12 cedar boards I had in another spot. Sadly, the man I got the walnut from has found a home for all of the wood he had. Darn!)
The pipe is easily removed, and should I need longer ones, I'm sure my buddy at Home Depot will cut 'em for me. I figured a 12" support would be long enough to accomodate most wood for the time being, but not so long as to be intrusive into the shop space.
I'm putting up a couple more light fixtures, cleaning off the workbench and tablesaw (cluttered up from the lumber rack project, which displaced a big cabinet), and I can start making some sawdust. Yes! Have 2 jersey cases to do in the next couple of weeks, and a personal project that's been rustling around in my mind for awhile now.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
LERT:
Sounds like any method I've seen so far will work like a charm. Mine are secured only at the top to joist. I have poured concrete walls in my basement where racks are and exposed joist 10' from floor. Was not necessary to anchor in to concrete as 2x4's are supported vertically by floor and secured at top on joist. I do have a 22" base for the sheet storage at the bottom and absoulutely no movement. As for side to side, load and unload from front or do Dennis's thing and bolster support.
Any method seen here should support plenty. I'm so confident of that, if you put some 18" pipes on your frame and lay a piece of plywood over it: I would sleep on it!! Now with that said: Get to working on that rack Lady of the Forest, winter is a coming..ha..Vacation is over and I couldn't resist a bit of humor to start the work day..grin>>
Regards and have a great day off while we work..(sigh)
Sarge..john
> ....if you put some 18" pipes on your frame and lay a piece of plywood over it: I would sleep on it!!
18" wide cot?! Could you post details of your diet plan? (grin)
[all work and no humor makes for a dull discussion -hehe-]Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis:
In VN we would sink pipe in the back side of a heavily sand-bagged perimeter bunker cut into side of hill-top fire-bases. Lay a piece of anything we could find on top, and there's your rack for the nite protected from artillery and mortar fire from other side of DMZ. Have I ever rolled off into mud on bottom of bunker?! Well, that's another thread altogether..he..he..
Headed out door to work. Hope you recover from r/r ties. Takes longer anymore, doesnt it?? Latter tonite as have a heavy schedule until about 11:00 EST.
Keep FG in line as she's off today!
Sarge..john
PS: Most things we could find to lay on top were usually no wider that 12".
I've used this 2x4 and pipe storage for a couple of years with no problems. I found it in one of the Shop Jigs books, I can't remember which. To avoid a problem with the pipes staining the wood and to hold more short pieces, I built a shelf that sits on top of the pipes and provides a flat surface to hold the wood. I load it up pretty good with hardwoords, short pieces, dowels a good amount of stuff.
My only problem is I need more space for the wood I have.
I didn't read all the comments, but here is what I did.
I screwed 2x4's vertically, flat to the wall at 32" centers. My wall had (previous workshop) studs on 16" centers and sheet rock covering. First, though, I cut 1.5x3.5 notches on one side of the 2x4's all using the same distances from the bottom of each. 2' out from the wall I stood opposite 2x4's, notched in the same manner. I connected them with 2x4's horizontally. I made each cavity about 2' tall. I had to load and unload the rack from the end. Worked well for years. Another way is to just screw 2x4's horizontally to those screwed to the wall. Ditto for the other side. Then bridge those with shorties. I see no reason to use pipes unless you have freebies.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
Hi Jamie,
I just build that kind of rack this weekend. Mine doesn't sit on the floor - it starts 50" up the wall so I can store sheet goods below it.
I used 3/8 by 5.5 inch lag bolts to attach the 2x4's to the wall. I've got 18 inches of pipe extended out from the 2x4's. It works great, and now I can actually find my way around my shop:-)
John Weeks
LERT:
Here is a picture of what I did from plans WoodWorking Mag Best Shops. I modified somewaht to suit my basement structure. I also added another rack on wall that has bracket storage all the way up to keep most raw stock on. I use this one for vertical sheet storage and scraps of left over building grade lumber. Thought this might give you some insight of what to do with your particular circumstances as all ideas given are solid.
Sarge..john
Wow Sarge, thanks for the pic. The addition of sheet goods under the lumber rack is definitely part of the plan. Where they're at now is not a good place.
You been holdin' out on us! A digital picture uploaded as a .gif attachment. And you said you didn't get this techie stuff, hah!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Give em hell FG, he has definitely been holding back...color co-ordinated too..gees!
BG:
Reply message 39 to your post. By the way, if you have a clue on last part of message: e-mail me cause I'm only guessing at this point. Read #39 to understand.
Thanks
Sarge..john t
Lert: You to BG:
O.K. OK< So I gotta fess up here. I haven't uploaded, downloaded or side-loaded anything in my life. The only thing I've ever loaded period is directly concerned with physical labor and a whole bunch of weapons. I got a little help from the "First Lady". She is retired MIS and much more intelligent than a dumb country boy like me. Better looking too (well almost on the looks part.he...)
It's not a digital camera. Just a 35mm as I'm to poor to get a high-tech tool. I didn't learn how to do e-mail till Sunday. I wish I had of (see last messages, Get This). I had to e-mail a reply cause the reply was a bit sensitive to be posted. I had posted a message ROS for Car late Sat. nite and I re-considered that it really should be e-mailed for sensitivity. Not sure what's happening at this point as have not recieved e-mail poster or reply. Will stand-by on that. Got any ideas e-mail me. The poster was refering to delete post Get This. I thought he was refering to my delete ROS, as I think Dennis may have read b-4 I deleted Sun. morning and sent e-mail to him concerning that delete. Know this sounds crazy, but some characters from the past may still be lurking. Not sure if poster was accusing me of being that character or if just used my post to get message to whoever deleted. Message I'm reffering to is addressed to me. As I said, if you have a clue e-mail. Read and this will make more sense.
Have a great day.
Sarge..john t
Sarge -
I haven't read anything you've shared here that I thought should be deleted. By contrast, I'm de-lighted to read your words of wisdom.
The email thang; - when a discussion goes to a point where it's a conversation between two people then (In My Humble Opinion -IMHO-) it's time to migrate to email. eg - Forest-Girl's need for RR ties. (grin). But by all means if the 'conversation' involves trading ideas, opinions, preferences, ... then it should remain in the forum from which the lurkers of the world may profit.
Topic relavence: none (hehe)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Dennis:
Will e-mail reply. I agree. Did you get my e-mail Sunday I believe? Sending now but have to log off. Back latter. Email reply or use your judgement.
Thanks..
Sarge..john t
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