Like a fool, I made a box out of poplar. Now I know why everyone uses poplar almost exclusively for drawer sides: it’s impossible to finish! I’ve tried various oil-based stains and combos of stains, but they all go on blotchy, streaky and kind of grayish. A stain that looks beautiful and golden on another wood looks hideous on poplar.
So I’m trying oils instead. Tung and BLO look pretty good, but I’d like something that darkens the wood a little more. Any suggestions? I’ve also tested Zinsser’s Amber Bull’s-Eye Shellac, but it’s a bit yellow to my eye.
I realize that my commercially marketed “tung” oil doesn’t actually have any tung oil in it. Does pure tung oil darken wood more than the stuff I’ve got? How about Danish oil?
If I can’t come up with anything to darken the wood, I’m just going to accept its whitish color and rather interesting grain pattern and put on a coat of Zinsser’s Clear Shellac.
Thanks for any advice.
Replies
I would use a transparent finish that has some color to it. Waterlox Original is pretty dark, so that might darken it up enough to suit your taste.
Be aware that the greenish heartwood, if you have any, quickly turns a sort of "medium mousy brown" on exposure to sunlight.
-Steve
Thanks for the tip about Waterlox. The Waterlox Web site says that it's tung oil-based. Is that real tung oil? Do you think it'll turn the wood darker than other products that are, or claim to be, based on tung oil?
I don't have any greenish heartwood, luckily.
I'll never use poplar again (except for drawers). What was I thinking?
Yes, Waterlox is made from real tung oil. It's considerably darker than plain ol' tung oil, but there certainly may be products out there that contain tung oil that are darker--I just don't know of any.
I've attached a photo of some shplots (technical term) on paper towels. From left to right, they are pure tung oil, boiled linseed oil, and Waterlox Original. Polymerized tung oil would be a bit darker than the pure tung oil (probably about the same as the boiled linseed oil), but I didn't have any on hand to photograph. Don't forget that (a) you apply a very thin film, so all will be lighter on the wood than these shplots would indicate, and (b) all three will darken significantly over time. "Old" cured tung oil is roughly as dark as the fresh Waterlox.
-Steve
saschafer:
Well, that Waterlox Original shplot looks about on the money. However, I just purchased a small can of Watco Golden Oak Danish Oil. If it turns out to be identical in color to the tung oil I already have, I'm gonna kick myself.
Nobody in my area carries Waterlox, and I just want to get this project done. Maybe I'll have to order some anyway, because it has just about the color I'm usually searching for, regardless of the project.
Thanks for taking the shplot pictures.
WATCO and no doubt other oil finishes come in a variety of colors:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=767
A wax top coat can impart even more color:
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=LB-0300.XX&Category_Code=TFW
dyes and pigments can be used too:
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=toolshop&Category_Code=TFD
I personally like poplar. It becomes a pleasing array of colors with oil treatments.
Samson and Steve, thanks for the information. I'm going to look into dyes. I'm also going to check out the Watco colored oils. I probably shouldn't be too nasty with poplar. You can do something nice with just about any wood, if you have the time to research and experiment. But I don't have that time, and I didn't do myself any favors by using poplar for highly visible parts of a project.
Once again, thanks for the suggestions.
Poplar is an excellent base for real milk paint.
http://www.milkpaint.com/
Here is a wall hung tool cabinet I made fo the shop in polar. While it's plain, I wouldn't mind it hanging most anywhere in my house as I find the wood (treated only with a oil/varnish mix and wax) quite charming.
http://image24.webshots.com/565/6/53/13/2468653130032524639qHMPzp_fs.jpg
http://image30.webshots.com/466/2/33/87/2424233870032524639qeuEYo_ph.jpg
Have to admit -- I hadn't even thought of milk paint. I've never tried it, though I'd like to.
The thing is, this poplar is quite white, and it's got a widely-spaced, grayish grain. Very odd wood, and I don't really want to paint it. I'd like something a little darker than tung or BLO, but I don't want to cover the wood completely.
(Incidentally, I couldn't get into your webshots.com site.)
Thanks for the ideas.
Samson,
Some kind of security issue on the site or the link is pointing somewhere it shouldn't. I get, "
You are not authorized to view this page
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I think Samson works for the NSA.
-Steve
I think Samson works for the NSA.He is just tryimg to keep you safe and supports new taxes!
Yeah, I get that now too. It worked when I posted it. Anyway, it's nothing special, just my shop wall cabinet that I was pointing out to the OP as it is oiled polar, and due to the "mousey browns" and other aspects of the grain, has grown on me. I'll try the direct route.
Samson:
Very nice. The variations in color do give the piece a distinctive look. My poplar is very uniform and almost white -- kind of like the left side of your cabinet door.
I'm goining to give the Watco a shot, since I've already got it, but I think I'll ultimately have to investigate the Waterlox.
Thanks,
VinceG
Gee... I followed the links and got:
This error (HTTP 403 Forbidden) means that Internet Explorer was able to connect to the website, but it does not have permission to view the webpage.I wanted to see!I for one like using poplar. I even look for the sticks with the green and brown streaks in it. But then again I like the look of natural wood and hardly ever use a stain. Usually Tung or Danish oil.Sure wish it was just a bit harder though!EDIT: I found you other post with the pictures.as it is oiled polar, and due to the "mousey browns" and other aspects of the grain, has grown on me. .. I agree but probably most would not. I think it looks GREAT!
Edited 12/14/2007 7:07 pm by WillGeorge
Sure, there is commercially available Pure Tung Oil or 100% Tung Oil out there, but tung oil will have less darkening effect than BLO.
You could also use a dye. A lot less blotchy on blotch prone woods such as poplar. Then you can top coat with either oil, or an oil based varnish, such as Waterlox.
Vince
Somebody correct me if wrong, but some overly simplified points:
Watco danish oil is actually a blend of oil and varnish.
Varnish is made by cooking oil and resins together. Different resin = different type of varnish - polyurethane, alkyd, phenolic.
Waterlox is a thinned varnish, made with darker resins.
>> Somebody correct me if wrong, but some overly simplified points:>> Watco danish oil is actually a blend of oil and varnish.Yes, it's an oil/varnish mixture with quite small amount of varnish. their colored "Danish Oil" is their standard product with some dye added.>> Varnish is made by cooking oil and resins together. Different resin = different type of varnish - polyurethane, alkyd, phenolic.
Correct, but you need to consider the drying oil used also. There are three, linseed oil, tung oil and soya. It's combination of the resin and the oil--and their proportions--that give each varnish its characteristics.>> Waterlox is a thinned varnish, made with darker resins. Well, yes basically. Waterlox Original is a varnish made with phenolic resin (which is dark)and tung oil. It's the phenolic resin that gives Waterlox its darker color. But also, each of their Original products (Sealer/Finish, Gloss and Satin) are slightly different formulations. The Sealer/Finish is a varnish with additional oil added to improve absorption when used as a sealer. Consequently, it is also softer and less durable than the Gloss and Satin.Howie.........
Edited 12/12/2007 1:27 pm ET by HowardAcheson
Thanks Howard
I was mainly trying to point out to Vince that neither danish oil or Waterlox were strictly oil finishes
Thanks for the precision regarding oils, varnishes, mixes, etc. It's nearly impossible to refer to something quickly and simply in finishing. There's always a "well, actually, that "oil" finish has a fairly high concentration of rhizopus stolonifer, no tung oil at all, and not a small amount of krypton in liquid form. You'd best not use it during a full moon, either."
re: rhizopus stolonifer
This may help
Excellent article, byhammerandhand. Just excellent. Many thanks.
That kind of clear and to the point writing is what makes "Understanding Wood Finishing" by the same author a must have book for any woodworker. No one else cuts through the bull and tells it like it is the way Flexner does.
Rob
There is a product called Mohawk they have an a dye stain as well as a spray stain which is in a 12 oz spray can with several colors.
This may work for this project.
http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/
Edited 12/20/2007 10:15 am ET by TonyCz
You can add oil paint to Formsbys or Miniwax Tung oil. It is very easy...just shoot a dab from the tube and mix with a small amount of the "tung oil". By smalll amount I mean the amount required for the job. It dries about the same-perhaps a little slower. And yes-I did it on poplar. Try it on a small piece-if too light add more, etc. Dont waste your time measuring...just do it. The process is intuitive.
why not add a bit of dye to the oil?
> Like a fool, I made a box out of poplar.
Hey, hey, hey! I resemble that remark!
View Image View Image
:) As you can see some people like it that way...
---------------
/dev
Sweet!
Poplar gets a bad rap.
Really love that dresser/cabinet.
I've not used "mineral stained" poplar. Anything worth knowing about the stuff as far as its ability to hold those stains or working it?
> Anything worth knowing about the stuff as far> as its ability to hold those stains or working it?
Nope... can't tell a difference.
Cheers!---------------
/dev
I have a poplar plank with lots of blue and purple running through it. Over time, the normal greenish heartwood areas have turned brown, as they always do. The blue and purple areas have changed somewhat, but they're still predominantly blue/purple. Kind of like the color of a really bad bruise, actually.
I haven't done anything with the plank because I'm afraid that any finish I apply will change the color.
-Steve
I'm not Poplar gets a bad rap.
That's gorgeous, slashdev. I'm beginning to learn to like poplar.
In the end, I went with plain old BLO. I ultimately decided that I liked the look of the whitish poplar and didn't want to change it much.
I tried various combinations of all the finishing products I have in my basement, and bought a couple more, but couldn't get the medium amber I was looking for with just an oil. I'm sure it's possible, using some of the ideas above, but there's only so much time. So I used the BLO, which barely changed the color at all.
I'm seriously thinking about using poplar again, however. I'm going to seek out some of the pieces with wilder colors and see what I can do with them.
As you can see some people like it that way...Right on.. Wood is wood and.. Well, why try to change it?
As I said, I went with BLO, and I thought I'd attach a few pictures. You'll notice that it's just a rip-off of the beginner's box that was featured on the FWW Web site for about a month. Instead of half-lap joints, however, I took a stab at half-blind dovetails, by hand. Came out OK, but I still need work on that technique. I have to imagine that a lot of victims will have a box of this nature thrust at them during this holiday season.
I used padauk for the little handle and the bottom.
Anyway, BLO sanded up to 1500 grit for the poplar, two coats of diluted Zinsser's Clear Bull's-Eye Shellace for the padauk.
And yes, I dropped the box, which explains all the little dings. Pretty much made me weep when that happened. Luckily, this will be a free giveaway during the holidays, and not a gift to a cherished love one.
PopBox4 probably gives the most accurate idea of the color. (Need to work on my photography.)
Thanks for all of your suggestions. Poplar hasn't seen the last of me!
It may be too late for you, but I did a storage box in poplar and wanted an easy finish that darkened it up just a bit.
I used orange shellac and was amazed how nice it looked afterward. Really suprised me. You might want to try it - on this piece I think it would look nice.
IMHO..., YMMV...
I use a lot of poplar. If you want an antique look, put a coat of barn red milk paint on first and let it dry. Next day put on a coat of black and rub it off. Look great. I also use water base dyes on poplar.
Have you tried sealing the wood with shellac before adding a stain or dye?
You can also mix your own glaze/stain by adding some oil paint to varnish.
I like to thin the varnish so it can be wiped on. A little japan drier can help
speed things up with the oil paint.
Or you can custom tint shellac using alcohal solluble dyes.
Adding a tinted wax can help too.
I know this horse has been killed but a suggestion for future ventures, if all you want is to darken the wood to a degree more than simple oil (linseed or tung) does, make your own custome oil finish. Take linseed and add artists' oil color, in your case burnt umber. Keep record of how much you added, test on a scrap, let dry, if you like it then is done, if not, add more artists' paint, test again. Topcoat with your final finish after oil is dry. A more "complex" finish is to make a glaze base and add the artists' oil color to the glaze base, then use it as an oil stain, also a custom made oil stain. Homemade glaze: 3 parts BLO, 2 parts thinner, 1 part Japan drier, artists' oil paint.
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