Replies

1. 
   RickL | Dec 20, 2004 08:13pm | #1

   The horizontal slot mortiser is a perfect tool for that. I believe the "Shops" edition of FWW has a nice DIY one as well as FWW issue 141 I recall. Also folks are discovering the G-0540 is able work as a slot mortiser and with a modified table for angle you can't do any better for $330 delivered to your door. The slot mortiser is probably the best kept secret in wood working. Been using them with loose tenons for over 20 years and nothing beats them in efficiency, speed and accuracy. Can also double as a boring machine for doweling. The technology  and technique goes back to the early 60's in Europe but it's relatively unknown to the majority of woodworkers in the US.

2. 
   VomSorb | Dec 20, 2004 08:19pm | #2

   The Delta tenoning jig (for a tablesaw) can cut angled tenons.  As far as I know, the very first model could do this.  I had one that was ancient and it could be canted to cut angled tenons.

   No new technology needed.

   One you get a test joint cut correctly a 14 year old could run the production for you.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 12/20/2004 2:46 pm ET by cstan

1. 
   scooter1 | Dec 21, 2004 10:54pm | #3

   I surprised that there are no reviews on the Leigh or the Trend that appeared. Doesn't bode well for either machine. Hmmmmm.I don't like doing angled tenons, or tenons at all, on the table saw. Using the Delta Jig, which I own, there are two set ups, one for each cheek. And with an angled tenon, one would have two more set ups for the shoulders, a total of four set ups for each tenon. Thats a lot of room for error. With my dumb router jig, the router cuts the shoulder and the cheeks in one fell swoop. I guess I'll stick with my plywood jig. If there are any reviews out there for the Leigh or the Trend, check back in, I'd be interested.Regards,
   Boris"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

1. 
   BOBABEUI | Dec 22, 2004 08:34pm | #5

   Boris,

   I believe that earlier this year or late last year FWW did review of 'router based' tenoning jigs, the Leigh FMT was certainly reviewed and well liked. I don't recall the Trend jig being reviewed, though.

   Hope this helps

    

    

1. 
   scooter1 | Dec 23, 2004 09:51pm | #7

   Thanks for the headsup on the aricle, yes I remember it, and went through the issues last night and found it.Actually it was not very useful and not up to FWW's usual standards. No side by side comparisons of the machines (variation in mortise size, whether they do angled tenons, etc) just about 100 words on each of about 4 machines. And surprisingly, no review on the Trend jig.And to correct one later post, you can not do angled tenons on the table saw with one set up for the cheeks--because they are different lengths, right? They are angled, so one cheek is longer that the other. Unless you have two saw blades of different diameters for that Delta jig, it is not going to happen. And the shoulders will require two set ups on the miter guages, flipping the the guage head over to 95 degrees and 85 degrees (for a 5 degree angled tenon). I have done this years ago and found that two miter guages were an enormous help on runs of more than a couple angled tenons.There is a discussion on another web site on this very subject as between the Leigh jig and the Trend jig of which I spoke. Some have purchased the Leigh and it apparently is easier than their dovetail jig to use, and the Trend is well thought of as well, and while not having all the bells and whistles, it is one third the price. I like for the simple reason that it does the one thing I want it to do--angled tenons--and does it like a jig should do--cheap and easy.Here is alink to the discussion for those who are interested:http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1028377&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1Thanks to all who have responded. I sincerely appreciate it, and hope everyone has a great Christmas.
   Regards,
   Boris"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934

2. 
   Elcoholic | Dec 23, 2004 12:43am | #6

   Using the Delta Jig, which I own, there are two set ups, one for each cheek.

   Well yes and no.  If I'm doing a lot of tenons I use the two outside blades from my dado set and cut both cheeks in one pass.  Dead CD's make excellent spacers.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   The more things change ...

   We trained hard, but it seemed that every time we were beginning to form up into teams, we would be reorganized.  I was to learn later in life that we tend to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization.

   Petronious Arbiter, 210 BC

3. 
   BenchMarkPhil | Dec 24, 2004 03:50pm | #8

   I have reviews of both the leigh and trend on my web site if you are interested. I also have a review of the littlerat which you might also want to consider.PMB
   http://benchmark.20m.com

3. 
   WillGeorge | Dec 22, 2004 01:33pm | #4

    This is the 1st time I've ever considered anything but my stupid $20 jig  <~~ ?????

   SIR If you can make a chair ya can do anything! $800.00 can get you alot of wood for those chairs!

   You should be able to hog out a angled jig in about 1 hour!

   Happy Holiday...

4. 
   Jellyrug | Dec 25, 2004 09:45pm | #9

   Boris,

   I had this same challenge months ago, making eight chairs, you can look up the project under:

   http://forums.taunton.com/tp-knots/messages/?msg=18514

   I used a Shop Fox tenon jig on the table saw and a Shop Fox bench top mortising machine. The mortises were quick, but cutting all those tenons on the table saw was both difficult and a lot of work.

   At that time everyone suggested I go the slot mortise route, but in MHO on chairs when you use a 1/2" tenon on 4/4 members, you have a much stronger joint, than using a floating tenon, which would have to be thinner than 1/2".

   To make the Grizz machine a true slot mortiser, will need some modification to the motor as you don't want to use a mors taper with side load, as well as the motor bearing load design.

   Will be nice if someone has a review after extensive use of the Leigh Jig.

1. 
   RickL | Dec 26, 2004 06:57pm | #11

   Jellyrug,
   As an advocate of the slot mortiser for over twenty years and a tech in machine repair for shops and a commercial dealer in machine tools for as long, you are quite mistaken on what it takes to use the G-5040 as a slot mortiser. True is it has a jacobs 33 taper on the chuck but a few drops of red loctite will fix that. I have spoken with a few folks who are successfuly using it as a slot mortiser so there is some real world experience in the subject, not just conjecture on theory. As far as the bearings most machines, except moulders, pin routers and shapers use higher grade bearings. You will find routers and commercial mortisers use a standard grade bearing. Routers take a heck a of lot side thrust with no problems plus on a slot mortiser you only go in a 1/4" or so as you go side to side so it's really not a lot of side pressure. PLus a loose tenon is a lot stronger than you think on an angle as the grain is straight versus the angled grain on a machined angled tenon. Try it and you will become a convert. The slot mortiser goes back to the early 60's in Europe and is not really understood in this country. FWW seems to have really missed the boat on this one, one of my pet peeves about FWW in general.You mentioned how long and tedious it was to make all the tenons. Well with loose tenons you would have been done in a very short time. Look up old article on joint strength in an older issue of FWW and you will see it is a very exceptional joint.
   Rick

   Edited 12/26/2004 11:06 am ET by rick3ddd

5. 
   roydoc | Dec 26, 2004 04:37am | #10

   Take a look at the Hawk Routershop (http://www.hawkwoodworkingtools.com). They bought the patent I think from what used to be called Portanails. It is a tilting router table that can act essentially like a variable angle "horizontal" mortiser. When on one of their frequent sales, it is about half the price of the Leigh jig. The company's advertising is ridiculously unsophisticated; they have not appeared in FWW to my knowlege; but they do appear at smaller travelling woodworking shows.  With your own router and this table, you can make angled tenons pretty quickly and easily. The cheapest alternative of course, is to cut the tenons by hand or make your own jig. Good luck. Roy