Replies

1. 
   BruceS | Dec 12, 2007 11:46pm | #1

   Probably not what you want to hear, But.  How about practical life sciences.   Balancing check book, credit card use, IRS income tax forms and filing, taking out a home or college loan on your income.  Seems like there is a shortage of wisdom there.

   Work Safe,  Count to 10 when your done for the day !!

   Bruce S. 

    

2. 
   8675309 | Dec 13, 2007 01:02am | #2

   Every day I am amazed by the complex geometry involved in my work. It's not that I sit around and think about it, or that it's anything special, but it kind of underlies everything I do. How about a course where students do all kinds of millwork while studying the geometry involved? For example, the angles involved in compound mitering might be an interesting topic. Likewise, deriving segmental arches for curved door or window casing is always fun.

   When I was in school I always objected to my math classes lack of application to my life. Woodworking provides incredible opportunities for demonstrating how applicable basic math and science can be to day-to-day activities.

   Good luck with your planning! I hope these ideas are helpful--feel free to contact me directly if you like!

   Visit me at The Wood Mechanic site!

1. 
   beo48 | Dec 13, 2007 01:18am | #3

   Both ideas are part of the curriculum.  Necessary skills. I have a Carpentry/ Building Trades Mathematics book which is excellent...

   Thank you

3. 
   Senomozi | Dec 13, 2007 04:20am | #4

   What about something related to elliptical curves?  Perhaps something related to the use of a carpenter's square?  Lee Valley sells a 56 page book about using the steel square.  I don't own the book but my brother does and he said that some of the stuff is mind blowing.  It was written in 1923, back when people had very limited education by today's standards.  Lee valley also sells a construction geometry book that could provide a few ideas.

   Hope this helps,

   Senomozi   

1. 
   EdHarrow | Dec 13, 2007 06:14am | #5

   I don't know where you are located, but parts of Texas has a lick of water - build boats if you're located in one of the 'wet' spots.  All kinds of stuff to calculate, plus the 'business' aspect of building stuff to sell.

4. 
   ted | Dec 13, 2007 06:49am | #6

   I don't think you'll have to look very far to see how math is used every day in WW (read measurements). Calculus could be used to figure out the rate of change of an elliptical tabe. Or ratios used to figure out how much alcohol to mix with shellac, etc.
   As far as science goes you could study the botany of different trees and how moisture content is related to seasonal wood movement. Or you could study the relative strength of different wood species, etc.

   Good luck

5. 
   danmart | Dec 13, 2007 06:54am | #7

   Beo

   I was/am in a similar situation in NC. About 4 years ago, I did an integrated math applications course with construction skills as 50% of the curriculum. We worked on geometry concepts and built Windsor chairs and 64"diameter wagon wheels for a museum, to work out angles. It was very rewarding and the students took home a chair and the museum has 2 carts with wooden wagon wheels with iron tires done by high school students. Parental feedback was very positive. I still get Christmas cards after 10 years.

   Two years after I initiated the program, we reached a final goal: we built 2 wooden propellers for my bi-plane. It took 2 months to laminate, shape and balance the prop. We built a test stand and had the prop spin at 375rpm on the stand while we balance the blades and adjusted the pitch from the root to the tip(with spoke shaves I might add). Tons of preparation, lots of setbacks but... I still get letters from the students recalling flying in the plane that they built the propeller that pulled the machine. I have 2 students flying F-15E models now and I am really proud to say that I "fired them up" with the "engineering" part of aviation. As an old UH-1D/H/N and F-4 driver its really rewarding to pass the baton.

   If you need more ideas and direction contact me directly so I don't bore the other guys with this education stuff.

   Its a long road but it can be done. In my experience, I found that the most important part of pursuing a project was to have a completed example in front of the students "on display" the whole time they were working the process. I can not over-state this factor. They need to see the final product to believe you.

   don't give up

   dan

6. 
   musashi | Dec 13, 2007 06:57am | #8

   What about building architectural models?  Maybe the math is not too deep - it's mainly scaling.  If you combine it with some other people's ideas about working with curves... or build a detailed model of your school...

   Good luck.  And enjoy -- it sounds like you will have the chance to have some real fun doing whatever project you choose.

   Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
   -Groucho Marx
7. 
   Sancho | Dec 13, 2007 07:44am | #9

   coiffure ceilings you can also go to cerritos colleges in cerritos calif,
   web site and check out there list of classes. They have one of the best w/wing ciriculums around

8. 
   IdahoDon | Dec 13, 2007 07:57am | #10

   Furniture design and wood selection are full of basic engineering principles.  I suppose finding what kids are interested in is the real core of the question.  Can't help much there.

   Cheers

    

   Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

9. 
   Dave45 | Dec 13, 2007 05:24pm | #11

   Since you're setting up a shop, how about having the students go thru the whole shop design process?  Power, Lighting, HVAC, Dust Collection (that can be fascinating - lol), Tool layout, Workflow, etc, etc.

    

10. 
    WillGeorge | Dec 14, 2007 08:14pm | #12

    Math, Math, and more Math..

    I hated the subject when I was a kid. I found it very hard.. Reason..
    I learn by doing and not usually from a book. Woodworking is one place Math can be used to something you can see.

    I tried from the book but I was always lost. When I used Geometry and Trigonometry to make something I could see something snapped in my brain. I could finally do Math and enjoyed the challenge.

1. 
   byhammerandhand | Dec 18, 2007 02:11am | #13

   Ruler and compass geometry for the younger ones. Reading a rule (as Tage Frid used to say, "15 inches plus three of those little funny marks."). Dividing things into equal parts. Determining square.Trigonometry (finding things in angle measures based on distances and vice-versa) for a little more advanced. Applications in polygons, roofing, compound miters, and chairs.Golden ratio and its application in design.Estimating material requirements. Optimizing cut diagrams. Sketchup.I agree with the prior post, a lot of practical geometry was lost a generation or two ago. I inherited a trigonometry book from my great-uncle (ca. 1880). It was as advanced as anything I had in geometry (BS and MS in mathematics).

11. 
    Sequim Tool | Dec 18, 2007 03:00am | #14

    How to get a job and keep it, Work ethic,  Working in a union shop. 

1. 
   byhammerandhand | Dec 18, 2007 04:15pm | #15

   Show up, clean & sober. (half the battle)Be respectful to customers.Work well and efficiently. The most important thing you have given up working is your time. To do a poor job or spend your time trying to get out of work is a great way to, well, get yourself out of a job.(sorry, but none of these things have to do with math)Some things everyone needs to know in math:
   - Basic arithmetic : add, subtract, multiply, divide, and percents
   - Basic geometry : properties of circles, triangles, squares and other polygons, including their parts.
   - Fractions
   - Compound interest
   - Discount and markup
   - Statistics and probability (why the lottery and casinos are taxes on people who are bad in math)
   - Free shipping over $50

1. 
   beo48 | Dec 18, 2007 08:05pm | #16

   Thanks to all of the responders... all of the responses are right up the alley I'm contemplating....

   I use the clean and sober talk on day one on any of my classes... Showing up on time, doing the job right... that continually reverberates through my class, got that from my grandpa at the age of 14...

   Again, thanks to all

    

   Dennis

    

   PS... I work in desert, el paso... like the idea of the boat but have little water to put it in unless we go about 150 miles...

12. 
    AzDiscDog | Dec 19, 2007 10:06pm | #17

    Hi Dennis,

    After reading your post and some of the replies, I'm thinking a combination of medium to advanced high school math plus beginning physics is what you're looking for. I'm assuming your intro classes are more oriented towards understanding and using tools as opposed to the principles behind them.

    Here are some thoughts / class activities that I think will capture all of your stated goals.
    Exploring the golden ratio. Involve history / architecture -- thinking Parthenon, etc... here. Show how the ratio can easily be worked out by hand, and the effects of collapsing the ratio into itself (whatever the name of that spiral is). Teaches the basics of design as well.

    Another section could be on complex angle joinery. Barrel staves / octagonal / hexagonal half barrels being joined together. Teaches the beginnings of calculus and how integration is performed. Also teaches valuable skills in splitting angles for construction.

    Scale house building, including hip roofs and all other funky angles to tie together.

    Marble raceways. Yes, it's a toy until you start running timing experiments to understand how friction coefficient can be affected by the amount of sanding completed along with the angles of the raceways. And coming up with ways to modify the angles of the raceways without rebuilding the thing every time should be challenging as well.

    Other "toys" can involve pulleys, levers, leverage, etc.... All components of basic physics.

    Take a look into a physics workbook and see what sort of construction projects can be found. As several other posters have noted -- doing is one of the best ways of learning. For myself, had I been doing a lot more than just reading, I would have taken a lot more mechanical engineering courses.

    Do another section on rotational speeds of router bits, table saw blades, etc... Part safety, part math. Realizing just how fast those things are going (and with how much force!) sobers you up pretty quickly.

    It should be pretty easy to demonstrate the amount of physics / science / math involved so you can double up your goals. Teach the state requirements *and* give them practical skills to boot.

    As far as the suggestion for teaching basic money skills -- that's easily incorporated into these projects too as part of the planning. How many people get started on a project without realizing if they have enough money to complete it?

    Glen

1. 
   byhammerandhand | Dec 19, 2007 11:15pm | #18

   I have this book, http://www.amazon.com/Making-Mechanical-Marvels-Wood-Raymond/dp/0806973587/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198095174&sr=8-2 , in my library.When I retire, I plan* to build a big rube goldberg goo-gaw that incorporates most of the things in here. It is great for models that convert rotary motion into linear, continuous vs periodic, etc. I've often thought it was the "19th century mechanical engineer's handbook"* As soon as I catch up on all my honeydews.

1. 
   beo48 | Dec 20, 2007 11:53pm | #19

   GlenThank you for some very good ideas... I'm intrigued by the book.. Might be a christmas gift to myself..Dennis