Somewhat interesting results here:
http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/1714911/?view=results&msg=voted
The results of a poll on home page.
If you wonder what level of articles may be in the future magazine issues, this may be an indicator of volume and interest.
Food for thought.
BB
Replies
Well that's encouraging. Maybe fewer articles on glue etc., and more profiles of talented craft persons ( top quality furniture makers ) their thoughts and influences etc.
Where is my full length article on Past Cartouche Award Winner Robert Whitley I have been groveling for ?
http://www.sapfm.org/cartouche.php
I am still waiting with abated breath and re-subscription money in hand.
roc
Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe. Abraham Lincoln ( 54° shaves )
Edited 9/13/2009 6:46 pm by roc
Edited 9/13/2009 6:48 pm by roc
I quess this is the chocolate and vanilla bit but I for one have NO interst in interviews with wood workers. I am looking for info on how to do something. I am not intersted in articals about people. If you have a famous wood worker then get him to do an artical on something. or get someone to do an artical on how said wood worker does something. I do not really care how he got into wood working or that kind of thing. Now if you want to tell me how he puts on finish, or does some unusual joint or some such then I am right thier with you. But i do not need to read about Him (or her). This is a wood working magazine not people.
Just me opinion
Doug M
Doug,
Enjoyed your post on wanting posts that talk about "how to". I said to myself, "Doug must be very young." so I looked up your info page, and sure enough, I wish I was your age, 39. In my first 20 years of woodworking, that is what I wanted: TELL ME HOW TO DO IT. Then things began to change in the world. The dinosaurs became extinct. Tommy Chippendale came and went. WWI, WWII, then came LV and LN. I found that my mind began to change too. (It became slower, for one thing.) But I now find that in woodworking, I want to be surprised, to be shown something that makes my juices flow. I want to hear how creative people work, so that I can glean some things that I can adopt and adapt. I showed a Maloof type rocker to a friend of mine who learned woodworking in Iran, a while back. His response, "I can do that". That's what I like. The "Can do" attitude, that develops with experience, which tells us that we can figure things out for ourselves. (not that Maloof ever did. ne kept improving his designs :-) When I see something that I have never done, I want to see if I can come up with a good way to do it myself. If I can't, I'll come up with the best I can, then I'll hit the internet, and make a few phone calls or write a few messages to get some help on the things I couldn't figure out. I may be completely in the wrong, but my take on how to become a great woodworker, is to learn the attitude and the skills to allow one to say: I can figure out anything in the shop. I can make anything in the shop, and I can do it with the tools I have at hand. (Maybe later I'll find a few tools that will make it easier.)I think that FWW will never stop publishing How To articles, or tool reviews. The greatest percentage of readers, want that sort of thing. All the youngsters (people under 65 :-) want that sort of thing. Please take everything I say with two grains of salt. Others use even more salt when they hear me. Some point crosses and pieces of garlic at me. Being Italian, I take the garlic with great happiness. Whatever you do, have fun, and don't pay too much attention to people with funny ideas.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I have noticed that as time has progressed you have become more philosophic about your woodworking, some call it a romanticism. When we study the great woodworkers we try to understand where their minds were, what caused them to do this or that and not the other thing, what motivated them to this effect? We believe if we can only duplicate their works we would find that holly grail. Then one realizes that the holly grail we look for can only come from inside us.How’s that for romanticism? (and two cups of coffee)
Hi Dusty,
You are correct, as always.Sometimes thinking about things gets in the way of doing things.
Sometimes it helps lead to a better understanding. So why to some people always ask to be told what to do and how to do it, while others seem to do all the saying of what to do and how to do it? Have you ever wondered why people buy so many "self help" books? Why do some people keep writing them. Why? Because they sell. Do they work? I don't think so. If they did, there would be no need to write more of the books. I think in teaching woodwork, we can follow the advice of a really smart guy who once said something like: If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach him to fish, you feed him for a lifetime." I think it is fairly straightforward to teach woodworkers how to solve problems, rather than to give them the solution to each problem. It was in that vein that I brought up my three kids (one is a Ph.D and two got their Masters degrees -- two engineers and one computer scientist. When they asked questions, I was always there -- but not to give them the answers, but to help them learn that they can find answers by themselves. A great way to develop self confidence in others.Philosophy ain't always a bad thing. Of course, it doesn't always work. :-) Have fun.
MelInteresting question.
The answers are not easy to come by.Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,I must be an anomaly. While I am interested in techniques (that I haven't read to death), I am just as interested, if not more so, in how other woodworkers work - their habits, their philosophies, etc. That's largely why I hang out here.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
The nice thing about woodworking is that everyone is right. Nothing wrong with wanting to make rockers just like Sam. That is a wonderful thing to do. Some folks want to make and install custom kitchens, baths, studies, etc. That is a wonderfulthing to do. Some like to make furniture in bygone styles. Nothing wrong with that. Some want to design things that are brand new, and figure out how to make those things well. That's fine too. We are all part artist and part craftsman. Some are just more interested in designing while others "make". Some like to make what others design. All are honorable things to do. BY FAR, the most powerful influence on me (akin to a gale force wind) was a few days with David Savage. I have never encountered someone who is so into the "art" part of furnitre. He asked if I could draw. I showed him two volumes of my drawings, one volume of portraits and one of things. He gently commented "Most of these portraits were drawn from photos, weren't they?" Then he picked out some of those that I drew from live subjects. He said, "Those are much more full of life and character." He urged me to draw from life rather than from photos, and he urged me to start drawing/designing furniture. He gave me a quick lesson. He said to sketch sketch sketch and let things work out til you have something you like. He was urging me to go WAY OUTSIDE MY COMFORT ZONE. I wish others in woodworking had done that to me forty years ago. I am not blaming anyone for not doing that. I was never privy to such a process. I didn't really have any feel for it. I find that I really like to be urged to go outside my comfort zone. What have I got to lose? DustyMcT just commented insightfully and correctly that I am becoming more philosophical about woodworking as I get older. I believe that has been driven by my experience at Woodcraft. In my two afternoons a week, I run across TOO MANY people who are SCARED to try sharpening by hand, or to try cutting dovetails or M&T by hand. They want jigs. They want to be PRECISE, and are afraid that they can't be precise without mechanical jigs. The number of woodworkers who buy the Worksharp because they are afraid to try sharpening by hand is enormous. FEAR FEAR FEAR. Psychologists refer to it as "Fear of Failure". It is a powerful motivator. The opposite is "Need for Achievement". It is a powerful motivator. "fear of failure" keep you from getting outside your comfort zone. I have had a good deal of success at taking woodworkers into the shopo at Woodcraft and giving them a chisel and two sharpening stones, and demonstrating how to hone without a jig or a machine. Some actually cannot relax long enough to give it a shot. Others see the results they can achieve in a few minutes. I offer them free lessons if they return and ask. I get a lot of takers.While getting a BS and an MS in Mathematics, I tutored college kids in math to make some cash. I found that in every case, it wasn't that they couldn't do the work. It was "Math phobia" - "I can't learn that. It is too hard." The way to get them to learn was to get them to relax long enough to think and try. Same thing as fear of sharpening and carving and handmade dovetails, etc..This idea of helping people realize that they can do a lot more than they used to think they can do, is a fun endeavor. To me, this is the most important topic in woodwork -- the idea that one becomes a "Woodworker" when one comes to the realization that they can figure their way into and out of almost anything in the shop. Once you arrive at that spot, the world looks different. But I fully realize that VERY FEW people want to achieve such independence in woodworking. That is just fine. Nothing wrong with wanting to learn to copy techniques and designs. That is an honorable thing too. That is infinitely better than sitting on the couch and watching reality shows. Ain't Knots a wonderful place. So many different cultures. So much love. (OK maybe I went too far. :-)Have fun,
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
There is a common thread that runs through great woodworkers like Sam Maloof and James Krenov. Is this thread the individualism of their work or their philosophy which influences the rest of us?
Dusty,
The common thread that runs through "great woodworkers" is largely the fame thread - they have become well-known more or less via historicaL accident involving being around a woodworking media jockey who took a fancy to them.
This is not to say that such people are uninteresting in their work or even in the thoughts behind that work. However, there are probably tens of thousands of other woodworkers whose work is just as interesting, maybe more so. But they are unknown to use as they lack the fame imparted via exposure in woodworking magazines or other media.
So what, you ask? Well, perhaps we need to keep some perspective and not get all fanboy and gooey-eyed about this or that high-profile fellow. One might consider keeping some perspective, to avoid turning mere mortals into demi-gods whose work we fail to consider critically. Or worse, we might become uncritical concerning their opinions on what is legitimate and illegitimate in woodworking practice.
It can be tiresome to have fanboys recommend or (worse) deride a technique merely because some fellow they have elevated to sainthood once made a casual remark on the subject. Also, it is easy to imagine some of those famous chaps wincing at the flutter-eyed adoration given them by their pestering groupies.
Lataxe, no worshipper of heroes.
We all make our own heroes through life, for what child has grown up without them; surely we have need of them sometime.
Dusty,
"Is this thread the individualism of their work or their philosophy which influences the rest of us? "GREAT QUESTION.
We all answer it differently.
My take is "neither of the above". When I study the work of a good woodworker, it doesn't matter to me whether they are famous or not. Some are, most are not. But all have something which I can "reflect off of, or assimilate into my bag of tricks, or use to inspire me in a way in which neither of us would have expected. Let's take Krenov for example. When I see his cabinets, which contain little usable volume, and stand on spindly legs, I don't get the urge to copy his style. I like more substantial features, and I like to use the space that is available. Yet I like his gentle curves, and his "floating" surfaces. I profit greatly by studying Krenov, and OldDusty, and Ray Pine, and Rob Millard, and Samson, and and and..... I look at their stuff, and see how I react, and what aspects I'd like to adapt (notice I didn't say "adopt"). Same goes for their "techniques". I read a lot. I can find more good ideas than I can generate. Like Lataxe, I am not much on hero-worship, but I am big on learning from others, and seeing how they can inspire me. People can inspire me in things far different than "Design". Take OldDDusty for example. The man is to be admired. He has a wonderful approach to life and to his work. He is never mean or angry. He is always ready to help and to share. Take Steve Schoene for example. He is always lending a hand, giving expert advice. He never overreacts. He is to be admired. I could go on and give lots more examples of folks who are excellent woodworkers, from whom we can all learn a lot.That's my take on things.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I can appreciate your thoughts, we all can learn from each other.
dmt,
To me the work produced is what influences me , however the attitude of the maker may reveal the philosophy and reasoning behind his work.
The way an individual approaches any task will vary , with experiences deeply engrained we reach for the methods we feel safe with or have perhaps decided to use new and untried ways that have been shared or taught.More times then not our equipment and habits may dictate the course of action we take.
I try and learn something each day , there is sooo much more to know .
I do feel attitude is paramount , we can draw others in with our enthusiasm or we can scare them off as some do .
regards from Oregon dusty
OD,
"---attitude---draw in with enthusiasm---scare off---"
I don't think I've seen a more accurate, relevant and succinct statement on this forum!
Well said sir---thank you!
Regards,
Mack"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
Dusty,
I saw mackwood's comment on your post'"I don't think I've seen a more accurate, relevant and succinct statement on this forum!" so I went back to see what you had said to deserve that. I couldn't agree with him, or you more. You have the ability to see deeply into mens' souls.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Yeah Mel , You just want that box !
d
"To me the work produced is what influences me , however the attitude of the maker may reveal the philosophy and reasoning behind his work."Indeed -- lately I find myself more interested in "why to" than "how to". When I started reading FWW with a stack of 1980's back issues my dad gave me, there was more "why to" than "how to". Other mags (and books) covered the "how to" just fine for me.
Edited 9/20/2009 11:05 pm ET by BillyChambless
Billy,Woodwork (now out of print, tragically) was good for looking at the makers, whereas other magazines won't stray far from "how to".Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Hi Doug ,
Sounds like you just want to know how , period . Perhaps to you how the maker got to the final designs and how his attitude , or mind set may have changed just dosen't matter . I can respect that .
However to some of us perhaps more that are professionals the deepest thoughts and reasons of why they do things the way they do not just how they do it may be of greater importance to us .
regards dusty
Over the years I've found technique only amounts to so much. A person can cut the most perfect dovetails, make the most precise carvings, put on the most blemish free finish and rub it out to a piano finish gloss, etc. But a piece only comes to life when there is soul to it. That is the maker imparts their feelings, attitude or emotion in their work.
And as far as I know this usually can't be explained in a step by step 6 page "how-to" article.
IMHO great work from great woodworkers serves as an inspiration and makes me want to attain the same level of competence and self-actualization. Articles that look into their lives experiences, philosophy, etc. helps me gain an understanding in myself and how I might see or approach my work differently. And help me create work that resonates with the viewer or user.
So much of woodworking seems to focused on technique and it often becomes and end in itself. If I look at any number of magazines or walk into a custom furniture gallery I can pretty much see the standard Mission, Craftsman style, Shaker or Traditional work. And while it is all technically accomplished in my eyes it tends to lack character and inspiration.
I recall the book written back in the 70's , "A Cabinet Makers Notebook" by James Krenov .
Which explained his work not in the fashion of the how but rather of the why. And how woodworking is much like music in that a symphony can perform flawlessly but if the performance lacks feeling and emotion it becomes more of a technical accomplishment and less of musical achievement.
Edited 9/20/2009 12:14 pm ET by ted
hmmm. This is timely for this thread.http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/us/20krenov.html?_r=1&hpw
Ted,
Enjoyed your post to Doug Meyer about inspiration from the woodworker, and not from the how-to article. Very well said.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
thanks.
boiler,
wouldn't it be boring to have to spend time with the "veterans"?
eef
Somewhat interesting results here:
I for one no longer subscribe to the printed Magazine. I do, subscribe to the NET offering. Is it save a Tree? Not sure?
I made my living servicing printing presses and whatever a printing shop had.. MANY different tools/machines... including computers. Yes.. PC AND MAC and other high end stuff that put both to shame...
My 'Mail delivers mostly bills and junk mail to me these days. Poor man/Woman.. He/she still likes a greeting for the delivery...
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