Replies

1. 
   blewcrowe | Dec 01, 2009 03:49pm | #1

   There's an odorless mineral spirits. Then again, I'd be more inclined towards naptha, as it speeds the surface drying: not the curing, but it does the drying.

    

   Denny

2. 
   YesMaam27577 | Dec 01, 2009 03:49pm | #2

   Yes, it will work fine.

   I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
   And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
   I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
   So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 01, 2009 08:16pm | #3

   What are these bench tops being used as? Are they work benches?

   Here is some info that may be helpful if you are looking for a work bench top treatment. In and of itself, BLO offers no protection from water or water vapor, chemicals, glue blobs or appearance. A film finish (lacquer, shellac, varnish, poly varnish) is not the way to finish a workbench top either.

   A workbench is going to get dinged and film finishes will crack or craze or be otherwise damaged. Once a film finish is penetrated, it looses its effectiveness and adjacent areas begin to fail. No treatment is going to make a soft wood benchtop harder. I much favor a "in the wood finish". Here are two that lots of folks find effective.

   First, is an boiled linseed oil and wax finish. Sand the surface to 180 grit. Mix paraffin or bees wax into heated boiled linseed oil. USE A DOUBLE BOILER TO HEAT THE OIL. The ratio is not critical but about 5-6 parts of boiled linseed oil in a double boiler with one part paraffin or beeswax shaved in. Take it off the stove. Thin this mixture about 50/50 with mineral spirits to make a heavy cream like liquid. Apply this mixture to the benchtop liberally and allow to set overnight. Do it again the next day and again the following day if the top continues to absorb it. After a final overnight, lightly scrape off any excess wax and buff. This finish will minimize the absorbsion of any water and you can use a damp rag to wipe up any glue excess. Dried glue will pop right off the surface. Renewal or repair is easy. Just use a scraper to remove and hardened stuff, wipe down with mineral spirits using a 3/0 steel wool pad (a non-woven green or gray abrasive pad is better), wipe off the gunk and apply another coat of mineral oil/wax mixture.

   My personal preference is for an oil/varnish mixture treatment. Either use Minwax Tung Oil Finish, Minwax Antique oil or a homebrew of equal parts of boiled linseed oil, your favorite varnish or poly varnish and mineral spirits. Sand the benchtop up to 180 grit. Apply the mixture heavily and keep it wet for 15-30 minutes. Wipe off any excess completely. Let it dry overnight and the next day, apply another coat using a gray non-woven abrasive pad. Let it set and then wipe off any excess. Let this dry 48-72 hours. To prevent glue from sticking apply a coat of furniture paste wax and you're done. This treatment is somewhat more protective than the wax and mineral oil as the varnish component adds some protection from not only water both some other chemicals also. The waxing makes the surface a little more impervious to water so you can wipe up any liquid adhesive. It also allows hardened adhesive to be scraped off. Repair and renewal is easy. Just go throught the same scraping, wiping down with mineral spirits and reapplication of the BLO/varnish/mineral spirits mixture and an application of paste wax.

   Both of the above treatments are quite protective but are easy to maintain and renew. They do not fail when the surface takes a ding.

   Howie.........
1. 
   Bill1608 | Dec 01, 2009 08:41pm | #4

   One of the benches is a woodworking bench 7' long. The other is a general purpose bench 10' long. Both are laminated (butcher block) maple. I am not too concerned about water or chemicals. I mainly wanted a finish that would be easy to refresh to keep it looking nice. I was thinking about using BLO first, and then some Tried & True linseed oil w/beeswax (I already have). After that, maybe wax it. As I said, my main concern is fumes in the basement, so I was thinking about using it unthinned. Since it is cold out, I can't open the windows. I do have a heat exchanger (ERV) though that pulls about 100 to 200 cfm from the basement 24/7, so I think it will be ok even if I have to use thinner. I also have some Japan drier if that helps or maybe I could heat the Tried & True linseed oil to speed things up. I also have some of the Minwax Antique Oil that you mentioned, so I have several options already.

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 02, 2009 07:05am | #5

   Either one of the two treatments I offered are easily renewed.Howie.........

2. 
   spotcheck | Dec 02, 2009 06:51pm | #6

   I agree with Howie -

   My variation -

   oil/varnish/turp.  First coat thinned with turp for penetraiton (red oak top).  Then another coat.  Then wax.  Looked great.  Renewable.  Loved it.

   Then - sorry, guys - decided it is a workbench, not furniture, and I wasn't going to spend any time making it look nice by refinishing.   So when I need to, I grab the card scrapers or scraper plane, slap at the part that is aggravating me, and keep on going.  Brings up that nice new oak look, which is gone in a couple weeks, which is just ducky for me.  Old chisel or card scraper remove glue just fine.  Jigs/fixtures in inconvenient places get screwed to the top, drill bits sometimes find there way into it.

   The only regret is when UPS delivered my new LN #71 - couldn't wait to try it out, so now there is a perfect 3/8" x 4" gouge set 1-1/8" in from the edge (the factory setting on the edge guide - as I said, couldn't wait).  One-a these days, I'll square up the ends of the gouge, and inlay something there.

3. 
   JiminFla | Dec 02, 2009 08:31pm | #7

   Howie,

   Does the oil and wax mixture have to be hot when it's applied?

   Jimhttp://www.jimreedy.com

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 02, 2009 09:11pm | #8

   >>> Does the oil and wax mixture have to be hot when it's applied?I guess you could--I never do.Howie.........

4. 
   Bill1608 | Dec 03, 2009 03:48am | #9

   I always wondered what the logic was behind mixing linseed or tung oil with a surface finish like varnish or poly. People talk about it a lot, so it must work fine. How does added one to the other improve either? I also wondered if one would keep the other from curing, but I guess the film is so thin, that probably isn't an issue.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 03, 2009 05:09am | #10

   They both cure together, that's not a problem.  What happens is that they tend to share positive characteristics, not negative.  The oil extends the curing time so that the combination can penetrate into the wood.  After the excess is thoroughly wiped off--just as if if were all oil, the resin that has penetrated cures and contributes dramatically to moisture resistance and increasing the time before the finish neededs to be renewed.  Oil/varnish mix is much superior to the straight oils.  The pure oils only function is as a single coat to "pop" figure, and as an ingredient.  By themselves the pure oils are little more than worthless as a finish.  The oil/varnish mix will look virtually identical, but not show the same water spots, or become dull after a few months like the oils may well do. 

1. 
   Bill1608 | Dec 03, 2009 05:57am | #11

   I mixed linseed oil and Minwax Antique Oil tonight and put some on a test piece. My original concern was smell/fumes in my basement during this process (too cold to open windows). This test convinced me that smell/fumes would be a problem if I use the Minwax Antique Oil (very strong odor). I might try to find a low odor varnish to mix with the linseed oil.

2. 
   dejure | Dec 04, 2009 10:42am | #13

   A drive by rambling:Actually, the oil and varnish mix goes even farther. Varnishes that mix with paint thinner, turpentine, mineral spirits and naphtha can be what are known as short or long oil finishes. Those with a little oil are short oil blends and those with more oil are long oil blends. There is, of course, a middle ground too.Long oil finishes are softer. This means they can tolerate extreme weather conditions better, since they flex with temperature and humidity changes. Water borne finishes aside, expensive nautical finishes are long oil finishes.Flooring finishes land in the middle of the spectrum. The have some flex, but must tolerate junior and his pet, along with the parade of adults trying to slow him down.Interior finishes that mix with thinners are, generally, short oil finishes and are harder, so more brittle. As such, they do not tolerate shifts in the wood and soon crack and separate. This is a problem also with cheaper exterior finishes and the end result can be seen on many doors, furniture and so forth that show excessive cracking and separation.Varnishes, generally are surface coats, but do penetrate to some degree, depending on thinning and such. This includes thinned versions of products sold as wiping varnishes. Thinned enough, they can do a good job of penetrating wood before hardening.Oils are of two types - hardening (e.g., tung oil, linseed oil, walnut oil, etc.)and non-hardening (e.g., mineral oil, motor oil. etc.) All of these tend to penetrate without building a surface coat. Since hardening oils polymerize, rather than dry, they cure without relying on air, so the surface and penetrating material cure at the same speed.Though it has been said oils do little or nothing to protect, hardening oil can actually increase the hardness of wood as much as twenty-five percent. As such, they can be excellent to use before applying a surface coat.That which I least want to do is oft that which I most should do. And I can't afford cheap.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 04, 2009 02:43pm | #14

   The idea that an oil finish hardens the wood was a marketing gimmick tried by Watco many years ago, but the FTC made them stop that claim, because it isn't true, even for that oil/varnish mix, let alone for a pure oil.  Try it, let some linseed oil dry on a hard surface and gauge it's hardness with your fingernail.  You will find that is softer than almost any wood you could use--I'm not sure about balsa and the like. 

   Pure oils do continue polymerization, which is why after a relatively short time--maybe a year -- the surface tends to look dull, and needs to be refreshed by another application of oil.  Oil/varnish mixes do this much less rapidly and may provide a number of additional years before a similar dullng calls forth a refresher coat.  

   I also think it is an excessively harsh judgment to suggest that interior varnishes "soon crack and separate".  While varnish isn't forever, and almost certainly won't outlast our most proven finish, shellac, varnish is still a considerably long lived finish.   

2. 
   dejure | Feb 10, 2010 02:41am | #19

   Actually, I was right regarding my statement that interior finishes crack and separate. I just forgot to make it clear that, since we were talking about a short oil formula, that would happen from use in an exterior application.

   Actually, I believe [hardening] oils do affect the wood characteristics. Placebo effect, if nothing else (grin). Regardless, oils, in the process of saturating wood, fill voids in cells. Just as you cannot compress water, wood saturated with oil should be less prone to compression. More so if you use a hardening oil, which, as noted, is the base for most varnishes.

3. 
   lwj2 | Dec 04, 2009 03:21pm | #15

   I use a mixture of tung, raw linseed, turps and a bit of Japan drier as a finish, wiping it on and then letting it dry several days, re-coating three times with a light scuff sand between coats.I did a table lamp out of apple several years ago and put about five coats on it, IIRC. I found it had too glossy a finish and scuffed the final coat with a white pad. The lamp still looks good and as far as I can tell, the finish is about bullet-proof.From what I've seen, the key is multiple thin coats, just as in French polishing, allowing for complete drying betwixt coats. It's not a quick process.YMMV.Oh -- straight BLO on outdoor tool handles once a year in the fall when I re-edge, clean and do general maintenance on them. Works for about a year. I sand the crappy lacquer finish off first.Leon

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Dec 03, 2009 08:04pm | #12

   >>> always wondered what the logic was behind mixing linseed or tung oil with a surface finish like varnish or poly. People talk about it a lot, so it must work fine. How does added one to the other improve either? I also wondered if one would keep the other from curing, but I guess the film is so thin, that probably isn't an issue.

   Oil/varnish finishes (ie: Watco, Minwax Tung oil finish and others of that type including home brew oil/varnish mixtures) are not intended to be "film" or on-the-surface finishes. They are intended to penetrate the surface of the wood and provide an in-the-wood finish.These finishes were developed as an improvement to old time "oil" or "oil rubbed" finishes. Pure oil finishes like BLO and Tung oil provide little or no long term protection from water vapor or abrasion. By adding a varnish component to the oil, the varnish improves the long term protection from water, water vapor and abrasion. The addition of a thinner in the oil/varnish mixture promotes absorption of the mixture into the wood rather than leaving it on the surface. Because it it absorbed, it renders a "look" of the old time fine without some of the weaknesses of a pure oil finish.Oil/varnish mixtures are intended to be a complete finish. They are not intended to be overcoated with a film finish. That is redundant and unnecessary. The component of an oil/varnish mixture that "pops" the grain, is the BLO. If all one wants to do is to "pop" the grain, merely apply a coat of BLO, let it sit for 15-30 minutes and wipe it dry. Give it 24 hours to fully cure and then overcoat it with a film clear coat.So the bottom line is that oil/varnish finishes are in between a pure oil finish and a film finish. They are just another option available to the finisher. They work very nicely on darker wood furniture that will not be subjected to lots of abuse. For an informal furniture style where the "look and feel" of the wood is desired, oil/varnishes are the best choice.Finally, it's best to make your own oil/varnish mixture. The recipe is equal parts of varnish or poly varnish, BLO and mineral spirits. Apply heavily, let set for 15-30 minutes and wipe dry. Next day, do it again. Then let it dry for 4-5 days and you are done. Don't apply more than three applications. The heavy amount of oil will cause the finish to become gummy. Remember, you are not building a film thickness.Howie.........

1. 
   Glaucon | Dec 17, 2009 07:28pm | #16

   Howie,

   I have used the homebrew of BLO, spar varnish and mineral spirits mixed 1:1:1 as my standard finish for many years. Some have advocated using that mix for the initial coats and then decreasing the amount of BLO (or omitting it entirely) for the final 2 coats, but I've never tried it. Have you any knowledge about this technique? Will the top coats cure properly (essentially wipe on varnish over "Danish" oil)? Just curious,

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Dec 17, 2009 09:10pm | #17

   Varnish will cure fine over danish oil. The only caveat is if you haven't properly wiped off the Danish oil after letting it penetrate. If you have let it build a film, then you would be putting a harder film over a softer one, a receipe for early failure. I'd not recommend spar varnish as a final topcoat for furniture. It's formulated to be flexible to deal with the needs of exterior marine applications, that makes it relatively soft and easily scuffed for interior use. It's also not as water resistant as a good interior varnish.

5. 
   boilerbay | Dec 18, 2009 09:47am | #18

   Howard,
   I'd go along with all
   Howard,

   I'd go along with all but anything to do with wax. I don't use water around the bench (waterstones =somewhere else). What I want most on a working bench surface is friction and I've never seen any mixed finish/wax or post applied wax that dries so hard as to not provide a degree of glide. Then again, I'm pretty hard on a bench and I don't care if they look pretty. It's a working tool for me. Min tung is fine for me.

6. 
   user-64052 | Feb 10, 2010 12:10pm | #20

   double boilers are dangerous as you are working over a stove and accidents can happen. a handy thing around the shop is one of those small slow cookers in which you can regulate the heat to whatever is required.

   a thinned first coat will make it absorb better

   ron