I am hoping to make some “bowls” and such. Have seen some large chunks of wood made into fruit/food bowls. Not turned on a lathe.
Hollowed out using a Lancelot and Kutzall, chisels, gouges, etc.
I bought a Lancelot and a Kutzall. 5/8 inch hole since the typical angle grinders have 5/8 inch arbors. BUT — there is a bit of slop. Not snug at all. Exchanged the Kutzall for a 7/8 inch hole and it fits snug. (They didn’t have a 7/8 inch Lancelot in stock.
Am I missing something? Please educate me as to why all the play in the 5/8 inch opening. Am I adequately describing the problem?
Thanks,
Alan
Replies
There's many devices to put wheels on angle-grinder shafts. One kind looks like a nut with a built-in bushing. The nut part threads on the shaft. The wheel ID is the bushing OD. Another nut threads on the shaft and captures the wheel. Perhaps that's the setup you need.
Jamie,
Sorry, but nope. The arbor is 5/8 on most grinders. The Lancelot and Kutzall come with 5/8 holes. But the grinder arbor is thread where the accessory fits. And, there is considerable play.
The "built-in bushing" as you call it is for 7/8 inch. The accessories that have 7/8 inch fit snuggly. Properly I would contend.
Alan
Mel would be a great source of info on this. I was in the DC area 3 months gave him a call and went to his house, he has beautiful bowls everywhere in his house from using that Lancelot.
Jay
Jay,
Good idea. I'll give him a call.
Alan
Alan,
I own and use the Industrial Arbortech cutter. If you have not already committed to the Lancelot, I would strongly suggest you have a good look at the Arbortech. It costs more, but the cutters last a really long time before they need to be sharpened or replaced. You can turn them like on spiral cutterheads to expose a new sharp edge. Also, they don't have the tendency to catch.
That said, there should be no slop between the arbor of the grinder and the wheel. I suspect that you are missing one of the plastic bushings.
Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
and now www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
Who would have supplied the plastic bushing?
Alan
Alan,The bushing should have come with the tool. I will try to remember to check the stock at my other work tomorrow.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com and now http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
The only bushing that comes with Dewalt, Porter Cable, Ryobi, Skil, Milwaukee, et al is 7/8. There is no 5/8 bushing for them. I looked at them all today at Lowes, Home Depot and Woodcraft.
They simply say "tighten the nut."
Alan
Everybody has a plan – until they get punch in the face.<!----><!----><!---->
Mike Tyson<!----><!---->
Scariest tool in the shop.
I've had one for years (Lancelott) and use it only when nothing else will do the job. These things throw chips like a pack of rabid beavers and I'd hate to get in the way of the business end of one. Although the arbor is a bit looser than, say, a table saw blade, it IS a coarse sort of tool, so it's never been a problem. The arbor washer snugs it up fine, and I've never had any problem with vibration or issues related to the fact that the blade may be off-center by a smidge.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
Mike & Chris,
Scariest tool -- I heard that today. Today, a good friend told me about a mutual acquaintance who tried to use a Lancelot to trim a tree -- on a ladder. It kicked back and did some damage to his chest. Apparently some time ago as he is still alive and kicking.
Anywho -- I have learned that YES there is play in the 5/8. Only the 7/8 is snug. True for both the Kutzall and the Lancelot.
The Kutzall, the horse itself tells me, was originally designed for pneumatic angle grinders. 5/8 fits snug on them. Only the 7/8 is snug on electric angle grinders. Several have told me that if I will "tighten the nut good" on 5/8 it will work fine. I just don't trust it that much. Probably works fine, but ...
So, I am going to switch both the Kutzall and the Lancelot to 7/8.
AlanEverybody has a plan – until they get punch in the face.<!----><!----><!---->Mike Tyson<!----><!---->
Alan,Today, I put a pair of digital calipers (that measure in 128ths) on the arbor hole of a Lancelot and it read exactly 5/8". I measured at a couple different points and got the same measurement. If your arbor is really 5/8" and not undersized, it should fit well.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com and now http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Chris,
I have seen your website and you are many times more highly skilled than I. Unquestionably.
The arbor hole in the Lancelot and the Kutzall measure right on 5/8 inch. You are correct on that.
However, the problem is the arbor. I have measured the arbors of Dewalt, Porter Cable, Ryobi, Milwaukee, etc., and they are all at least 1/64th less than 5/8ths. 39/64 I believe that would be.
As one of the posters earlier acknowledged, there is play. The shaft is not solid at that point. It is threaded on all of them. So in addition to being undersized, the disk goes in and out of the threads. And there is no 5/8 inch flange for it to seat on -- HOWEVER, there is a 7/8 inch flange for the various grinding disks, kutzalls and lancelots to seat perfectly with their 7/8 inch hole.
Several have acknowledged there is play when a 5/8 disk is on. Most have told me to just really tighten the nut. On a regular thin grinding or cutting disk, that might be fine. But for a Lancelot and a Kutzall which is going to produce considerable vibration and even bouncing (from what I have had described by several), well, there is just more play than I would think necessary or safe.
If you go to Home Depot or Lowes (or whatever supplier you have locally) and look at all the grinding and cutting disks they have, at least in the four places I have gone to locally, 90 percent of the disks they have on display have 7/8 inch holes.
7/8s makes sense. The arbor has a flange (or whatever the right word is) that leaves no (zero) play for the disk with a 7/8 hole. But there is not one for the 5/8.
Hope that better explains what I am trying to communicate. As I also said earlier, the Kutzall wasn't designed (I am told by one in authority) for electric grinders. It was originally designed for pneumatic grinders. 7/8th is better for electric grinders.
Alan
Alan,How do you measure skill? (Perhaps that's worthy of another discussion)I had a closer look at my grinder and discovered that the threaded shaft on my Makita 9554NB has a spindle much smaller than 5/8" and the hole in my Arbortech measured less than 7/8". To get a good fit (hardly any noticable play) Arbortech supplied a nylon bushing as shown in the photos.With some experience carving with an electric grinder, I see the benefits to a pneumatic grinder. All the dust and shavings that are generated tend to get pulled into the slots at the base of the handle which feeds air to the motor. If I'm not diligent about clearing them out, the grinder will stop working. Fortunately, this has only happened once and all I had to do was to clear it out.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com and now http://www.flairwoodworks.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Alan,This attachment didn't attach with the last message.EDIT: Then it attached twice to this message.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
and now http://www.flairwoodworks.com) - Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Edited 6/24/2009 12:41 am by flairwoodworks
Mike, Chris, & Keith,
I meant to mention that the 4 inch Kutzall is available also with a 7/8 inch center hole. You just have to know to ask for it. They advertise the 4 1/2 inch in both 5/8 and 7/8. For whatever reason, they just don't let you know the 4 inch can also be had with a 7/8 hole.
Alan - planesaw
Alan, Most of my grinders have a 5/8" x 11 thread. With a disk / nut which is threaded and uses a special wrench with two pins that fit into holes in the nut to tighten.
Some wire brush fittings and some grinding wheels come with a female 5/8" threaded hole which eliminates the need for the nut when they are used, but I don't think you will find that unthreaded 5/8" heads will work with that coarse thread which goes all of the way down.
I have done quite a bit of work with these heads, which I follow with the coarsest sanding disk that I can find to smooth and fair the hollow and bulging shapes.
When it comes to smaller details, I usually switch to the Arbortec mini-cutter head, then follow that with some small sanding disk.
When going on down to smaller details, I go with Creative Technologies Rotary Chisels, of various sizes in long neck grinders, and smaller Dremel handsets, rather than those Kutzall bits. I have only used a few of those type.
http://www.rotarychisel.com/
Of course as I start moving on down to smaller details, I will then go to carving tools, and a power carver sure takes a lot of strain off of these old stiff aching hands.
If you get by here again, I will put some of these in your hands for a test-drive so you can better home in on your needs.
I sure hope you are planning to work your wood green, then plan on drying it after you get all of the carving done.
Keith,
Thanks for the overview and the details. Will be glad to take you up on the offer. Am hoping to get down there in the next 4 to 6 weeks. Will call or email and arrange a time convenient with you.
Alan
Hey Alan, If you do get any of those Kutzall cutters before you come that you really like, and can bring one along, I would like to try anything that you are willing to share with me. Of course you may not be able to get onto the airplane with it.
Alan,
I apologize for not answering you quicker, but I haven't been on Knots for a few days. It is great to be retired and very busy.
As a result of your message, I got out my Wixie digital calipers, and got out my three Kutzalls and my Ridgid angle grinder. The arbor on my angle grinder measured .625 which is 5/8" on the nose. My three Kutzalls are within a few thousandths of that.
I made over thirty bowls last year with the Lancelots and the Kutzalls, and never noticed any slop in the system.
WHY? Who knows? Maybe I got lucky. Please come down and visit, and take your tools, and we'll compare the two sets, and make some sawdust, and see if the "slop" differs, and if so, if it makes much difference in how things work.
I would be happy to take my Ridgid Angle Grinder and Kutzalls to the talk by David Savage. You can check out the tightness of the fit. Heck, we can let Savage do the tool review. He is absolutely savage when it comes to tool reviews :-)
So, if you have any questions about how tight the "end effectors" should fit on the arbors, I suggest you go directly to the horses' mouths. You can contact (King) Arthur's son Jerry at:
[email protected]
and you can contact Mike Oliver at
[email protected]
I am not sure that Mike Oliver is the right person to answer your questions about "fit", but I am sure that he will get your question to the right person and get back to you.
I hope that helps. We'll compare the tools On July 11 in Towson, MD, and see what the "slop" problem really is.
I have made a DVD on how to make bowls using Lancelots and Kutzalls/Galahads for King Arthur's Tools. If you'd like a copy, send me an email.
Hope that helps.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
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