Replies

1. 
   rslatm | Jul 10, 2003 02:46am | #1

   All the best KD hardware originates from over your side of the pond. Actually the term used these days it RTA...Ready To Assemble

   Do a search for Hafele...very extensive selection and I'm sure there's more if you contact local hardware sources. Check your local woodworking mags for more as well. I've used a number of them and they all work fine. It's just a matter of which ones are easier for you to set up fixtures to drill the aligning holes.
1. 
   Timagain | Jul 10, 2003 12:14pm | #2

   Rick

   Thanks for the response - you highlighted the problem perfectly - there are so many options all seemingly as good as each other and because of that I'm trying to get a feel for what people have found works best for them or not and why.

   Thanks for coming back to me

1. 
   rslatm | Jul 10, 2003 05:02pm | #3

   I don't think many folks here have used RTA fitting except for a few mentions of confirmat screws. Based on your extensive research what fasteners are you favoring?  For simplicity I'd probably go with a Hafele DC-25 connector as I could get by with a hand drill and a 25 mm bit and a 5 mm bit. Over simplified but most of the others require more elaborate drilling jigs or construction boring machines.

   On a simpler level you could go with the Hafele Trapez RTA fitting which is simply screwed on to the panels. The DC-25 are flush while the Trapez are more visible but one can't have it all.

   http://www.hafele.co.uk/Hafele35a1/Templates/Hafele/Products.asp?param=5012&ig_id=28211&title=DC%2D25+cabinet+connectors

   http://www.hafele.co.uk/Hafele35a1/Templates/Hafele/Products.asp?param=5008&ig_id=13808&title=T+knock+down+fittings

1. 
   Timagain | Jul 10, 2003 05:44pm | #5

   Thanks again.  I suppose I'm thinking on the lines of either confirmat (which seem simple and effective) or some of the more complex (eg minifix, rafix etc) which all seem to follow the same principle of metal dowel and offset rotating lock - there doesn't seem on the face of it to be a lot to choose between them.  I want the fixings to be hidden so I guess I'll just have to experiment with them to find out.  Are there any major drawbacks to confirmat type screws that you have come across - it appears to be the most straightforward so I suppose my question is why are there all these others that as you say are more complex, require jigs etc?  makes me nervous I am missing something!

   Many thanks

   Tim

1. 
   rslatm | Jul 10, 2003 07:17pm | #9

   All RTA hardware is best and most efficiently done on a construction boring machine that typically has 12 to 20 spindles and some of the fasteners require 3 different sized holes for each fastener. The better boring machines have a head horizontal and vertical as some fastener need one of each to work.  To drill this by hand accurately would take a lot more time.  That's why suggested the RTA fasteners I did. One could do them with a hand drill.

   I think RTA fasteners are great in certain applications. All you need is a hand philipps screwdriver. We used to make office furniture and premake and finish them and assemble them later. It was nice because a guy in the field could simply replace a damaged panel with only a philips screw driver.

   Confirmat screws are certainly more expensive than dry wall screws. So maybe you should just carry the pieces upstairs and screw them together there.

2. 
   JohnWW | Jul 10, 2003 05:35pm | #4

   Tim,

   Knock down fittings are expensive when you start using a lot of them, for an application like this I'd try to find some way to use ordinary screws or the Confirmat (sp?) screws made for MDF. 

   The pieces are only going to be assembled once and you are going to be doing the assembly, high tech KD fittings meant for pre-made furniture sold through a store aren't needed for this type of a job.  In addition to price, a lot of the KD hardware is fairly fussy (as in time consuming) to work with, which will also cut into your profits.  If you are doing this for money you need to start thinking about being efficient while also turning out a good product.  Most jobs that lose money lose it because of poor planning in the early stages.

   Good luck, John W.

1. 
   Timagain | Jul 10, 2003 05:50pm | #6

   Confirmat it is then!  Too right about the poor planning - I got my fingers burned badly when testing the water with my first jobs (taking twice as long as expected, poor material estimates etc).  I'm now meticulous (hence the questions!) but I imagine the gremlins are still looking for their opportunities.

   Thanks for the advice - all gratefully received

   Tim

1. 
   JohnWW | Jul 10, 2003 06:08pm | #7

   Confirmat screws are a good choice but there may be others, I actually do a lot of my work with sheet rock screws either run into the edge of the MDF (several tricks to make this work) or sheet rock screws run into wood reinforcing blocks.  Don't waste your energy on hiding hardware that won't be visible once the units are in place, the ends of cabinets that butt up against each other for instance. 

   Another design consideration before you get started: how are you going to level up all of these pieces, especially if they're going to be butted up against each other.  Leveling the piece will also be critical if the doors and drawers are going to fit properly.  Don't ask how I know about these problems. 

   John W.

1. 
   Timagain | Jul 10, 2003 06:35pm | #8

   Without boring you witless about the whole job, it is essentially  3 sets of different cabinets set on top of each other.  The space is  compromised by a sloping ceiling (it gets better doesn't it) so I have designed the cabinets to be successively narrower the higher they are.  The bottom ones - those needing leveling -  are basically a long box each containing one deep full length drawer.  The front face of these will act as the reference face for the other cabinets so that they will all clear the sloping ceiling/ wall when on top of each other.  I am putting these base boxes on adjustable kitchen cabinet legs which will be then be covered by a plinth running the full length of the cabinets.  My theory is that these are not too unwieldy to level and then join and will act as a firm and stable platform for the larger but narrower cabinets that go on top.  That's the theory...................

1. 
   JohnWW | Jul 11, 2003 01:09am | #10

   Sounds like you've got a good basic plan.  Putting lips on the drawers and doors will make leveling and lining up everything go much easier.  Flush fitted drawers and doors are very sensitive to the least bit of twist in the case.

   John W.

3. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Jul 11, 2003 01:18am | #11

   Tim,

   H'a'fele are reasonable quality, but I prefer Blum or Hettich.

   Grab your local phone directory - should advise you of local cabinetmaking suppliers that carry all three brands.

   The Hettich catalogue gives detailed instructions on fitout and use of KD fittings.  If you're unsure it's a good first port of call.

   The high end drawer front connectors have vertical adjustment capability for flush fitting drawers, lets you get the same gap all around.  By the sound of things, not in your client's price range.

   Cheers,

   eddie