Replies

1. 
   RickL | Oct 28, 2004 02:52pm | #1

   Top of the line...no way! Truly a glorified home owners saw! Anyone who thinks Inca is the best doesn't have any real experience with machinery. I admit to owning an Inca saw many years ago when I first started woodworking professionally and as a hobbiest.I sold it as fast as I could and never looked back except in embarassment and as learning experience. I've been involved in machine repair over  the years and have worked on many different brands and Inca is definitely nowhere in the same class. Inca machines are toys!

1. 
   mantles | Oct 29, 2004 06:57am | #3

   Many thanks.I will stick with my Powermatic 66 I have had for 20 Years.

1. 
   RickL | Oct 29, 2004 03:17pm | #4

   The PM will match the quality of the Inca any day, plus it can take rough service if needed, not to mention parts availabilty and a solid resale value. Any decent saw  with good fence is capable of precision and accuracy but those are more a function of the operator. A real step up would be to get a slider like a Hammer, Felder, Minimax. etc. There's a guy on the Australian forums who does incredible work using a Ryobi BT3000.

2. 
   RickL | Oct 31, 2004 03:55pm | #5

   http://www.australianwoodart.com/welcome.html

   See what this woodworker makes with a Ryobi tablesaw

2. 
   joinery45 | Nov 05, 2004 03:58am | #6

   Northfield or Oliver thats the top of the line INCA was a joke. I did use one in a Prop shop in LA for small work it was great except when you mitred anything the drop literally dropped on the floor

   Edited 11/4/2004 9:04 pm ET by joinery45

1. 
   RickL | Nov 05, 2004 06:20am | #7

   I've used a bunch of Inca tools in various places...definitely toys. I've used Oliver, Tannewitz, Northfield as well. American saws are still no match for the European stuff in my opinion and experience. I'll take a Griggio, Paolini, SCMI, Felder over those dinosaurs anyday. Sliders are such a step up over a cabinet saw.

1. 
   joinery45 | Nov 05, 2004 07:36pm | #8

   I think the argument is based on wether one process panel stock or solid thick pcs of hardwood. I worked for a pipe organ company in San Francisco for a while. They had a 14" Northfield bench saw with a sliding table (short throw less than 24") a rip fence that fit in to taper holes in the table low rpm motor quit no vibration etc.

   When I cut 3" thick pcs. of white oak the cut was flat virtually saw mark free and dead on.

   For panel stock I liked my Altendorf F90.

   Now I use the Festool System with the plunge saw and guide rail.

   Thanks

   John

1. 
   nikkiwood | Nov 08, 2004 08:10am | #9

   Re: Festool system

   John,

   I am intersted in exactly what you use the Festool system for -- e.g. breaking down sheets of ply (which are then cut to specific size on the TS, or do you cut all your ply cab parts with the Festool? If the latter, do you slice off the factory edge first with the Festool, and then cut the cab parts?

   Are there any other uses you have found for the Festool circ saw/guide?

   Also, when using the guide, is it really true that the weight of the saw keeps it in place and clamps are unnecessary?

   Right now I use a shooting guide to break down a sheet of ply, and then cut the pieces to size on the TS. I am wondering if there are dramatic advantages to using the Festool system that would justify its cost.

   I just bought their jig saw, and had a chance to look at (but not operate) the circular saw/guide system.

2. 
   joinery45 | Nov 11, 2004 06:49pm | #10

   Nikki,

   Yes it's true that you don't always have to clamp the rail down for 90 degree cuts on unfinished material. I mainly do site built cabinets with pre-cut components etc.

   The Festool system gives  me dead  square or consistent miters on sheet stock. For an example. I'll stack 3/4" A1 cherry on a flat square table slip 1/4 mahog. in between the A1 as a sacrifice sheet. To cut the panels in half (24x96), I first split the panel in half then stack the pcs. with the dress cuts bargained reset the depth of the plunge and cut both pcs together.

   To cross-cut A1 material I set and clamp the rail, change the depth to 5 mm and run the saw along the rail this acts like a scoring blade. Then reset the depth and finish the cut.

   Unfortunately Festool is now pushing retail sales instead of the ISA or Independent Sales agent. Most retail sales outlets won't spend the time educating the buyer about the tools, because they have to be order therefore no impulse sales.

3. 
   nikkiwood | Nov 12, 2004 06:47am | #11

   Thanks for info. Sounds like a great system for cutting sheet goods, and I gather you don't use it for much else.

4. 
   joinery45 | Nov 12, 2004 07:09pm | #12

   Actually I use it (the rail system) for everything from fitting doors, trimming hardwood floors for edging. I originally bought the saw to mitre large butcher block counters together. The mitres would have been 48" long in places. I had this nightmare vision of sanding and fighting the joints ( over twenty) until I said good enough.

   With the Festool E65  and the rail clamped with the multipurpose blade ( the rip blade was to fierce). The joints came out perfectly. I mean straight, true without that  "makita wave". When I bolted the joints together the counters were dead flat and the faces were so tight I coudn't get a piece of paper in anywhere.

5. 
   nikkiwood | Nov 14, 2004 09:48am | #13

   Thanks again for all your helpful info.

   I build a lot of cabinets (always in a shop setting), and have for years used a home-made shooting board arrangement to break down sheets of plywood, which I then cut to size on the TS.

   So the Festool system is a way more sophisticated version of what I am already using, and I am just trying to decide if all of this is worth the rather substantial cost. Certainly, if I did the volume of job site work you do, I wouldn't hesitate.

   I can't remember if I mentioned before that I recently bought their jig saw -- and have been pretty much blown away by its quality, which is what stoked my interest in other Festool products. I have used a Bosch for years, and there is really no comparison.

   At a time when most manufacturers seem to be exploring how thin they can slice the bologna, Festool is moving in the opposite direction -- which I applaud.

   Rather than the circular saw, I think I will move into their sanders. Do you have any of these models in your tool inventory -- especially the Rotex?

6. 
   joinery45 | Nov 17, 2004 02:32am | #14

   Nikki,

   Your use of a shooting board to cross-cut panels on your table saw is the best way. The Festool Guide Rail System works great for long cuts but, short repeatable cuts can be problematic. What you can do is cut mitered tapers out of prefinished material and glue and clamp with tape. Without a really good panel saw that's almost impossible especially in the field.

   I bought the Multifunction table to act like a shooting board but it was a joke you can't get repeatable accurate cuts with it like you can on a TS. The MF Table works great for single precise cuts in wide stock or panels as long as it fits the foot print of the table. The problem is that you have to move the fence to change your work piece thus loosing your settings. With a shooting board the only thing that changes is the position of the stock. I used it to retro fit new flush inset doors into existing cabinets and it work very well for that, but It wasn't worth the money.

   I have the Rotex sander and the Orbital sander RS 400. I'll write more about these later.

   The big issue with Festool is you have to plan ahead and have on hand any consumables  you'll need because your local home center won't have them. The good news is that Festool ships things FAST, I mean really Fast almost the next day.

   I went to Truitt and White in Berkeley CA  yesterday to see the state of there Festool Display. It looked really shabby. I ask one of the counter sales people to help me select a planer and they recommended a in stock brand ( Makita  which for what it is is pretty good but nothing compared to the Festool). You can buy a stand for it so you'll have a small scale jointer to clean up saw cuts and taper stain grade trim. There is  a big price difference but over time and the life of the tool, the value is always in the better tool. I take really good care of my tools, at the end of the day I dust them off clean the surfaces etc. repack them in there systainers. So the next morning when I open the box it's like opening a new tool.

   Thanks

   John

    

7. 
   IainEdwards | Nov 17, 2004 08:21pm | #15

   Nikki

   At first view the Festool line is a difficult cost justification exercise, that said you've invested in their product and am sure will be thrilled with the quality, performance and the ideology that stands behind their design principals...

   I've been using the Rotax and the 3mm 150mm diameter ros for some time now, the rotax is wonderfully versatile, balanced, minimal vibration and very sensitive in use, the 150 clearly lacks the multi function element but again is balanced and produces minimal vibration. Both machines produce a high quality finish, and have an excellent dust collection system that keeps the pads clear and working. Consumables, well they are'nt standard and require a bit of forward planning.

   For your further delectation just go and have a try with their smaller routers. Made like shockproof swiss watches. 

    

   all the best Iain

    

8. 
   nikkiwood | Nov 18, 2004 06:49am | #16

   Iain,Thanks for your thoughts.I really do applaud Festool's efforts to design and manufacturer the best tool regardless of cost -- while most stuff sold here for the U.S. market is headed in the opposite direction. the big box stores here exert enormous (and effective) pressure on the manufacturers on price, so they in turn are compelled to see how thin they can slice the bolgna, so to speak. But Festool's marketing strategy continues to perplex me. They could sell a lot more tools if they simply entered the marketing stream with everyone else, instead of forcing all sales through mail order. But then again, maybe sales volume is unimportant to them.

9. 
   IainEdwards | Nov 18, 2004 06:54pm | #17

   Jan

   regarding your points re festool, you look at any market place and there will always be a couple of businesses that appear to buck the trend; cars, food, houses, home appliances......what ever, they will be there. 

   Festool really doesn't do anything different to them. You can bet that Festools strategy is well tested both in terms of market forces and the physcology of the buyer. They clearly see no advantage in the mass market.....Look at the reputation of other so called premium products when they have taken that path. I'll bet good money that Festools return on invested capital is of a much higher order than an ex premium product mass market player.

   just a bit of rambling.... bored at work dontcha know

   regards Iain

    

    

    

   Edited 11/18/2004 10:57 am ET by Iain

2. 
   bakesale1 | Oct 29, 2004 12:59am | #2

   I can't speak for repair experience.  But I think Inca machinces aren't designed for production work like slamming lots o' sheets of ply.  They're designed for precision work in small-scale shops.  They excell at this type of work. I have this TS, and I'd hazard to say its as beefy as any US/Taiwanese 3 hp machine.  Indeed I think the size of the castiron top is bigger than most before you add the wings.  My only complaint is that the throat plate is narrow so that changing those 12" blades is a PITA.  But the precision and versatility of the fence are excellent. 

   I don't see why they would need lots of repair.  The motors used are well-known. 

   If I were you, I'd look on e-bay, where they come up for sale.  I'd try to find the older 2100 model with the mortising attachment that has had swapped the aluminum top for the cast iron top.

   I know Eagle tools in LA used to have refurbished machines.  Jesse Barrigan knows all about these machines and their maintenance.